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Old January 15th, 2014, 02:04 PM   #31
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

This could help.


Norwich City's ground in Norwich - but a private match. I picked these two shots from the game. Shotgun placement is on the touch line to the left of the camera position - visible in the clip. This mic is the left channel, and the right channel contains camera audio from the stock microphone - very similar to the one Gary used. Camera position is the back of the stand, near the commentators position - so you can hear the roof! In the second shot, you can hear the goalkeeper bouncing the ball on the camera mic, but not the shotgun, which faces across the left side of the pitch. This is why I try to have one left, one right and camera audio in the middle - all bases covered.

With no audience, you can hear what these mic positions give you.

Pure luck I had this particular match - It's from 2011 when I sponsored the team strip (the red/black one) Nice to do, but generated no business I'm aware of.
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Old January 15th, 2014, 03:24 PM   #32
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

What shotguns did you use and what did you mount them on? Were they in blimps or was that just one of furry mic covers?

Last edited by Greenlee Brittenum; January 15th, 2014 at 05:09 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2014, 09:19 PM   #33
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

Does anyone have any experience with these microphones and which do you think would be better for my application?

Audio-Technica

Based on models originally developed for use in the broadcast of the Sydney Games in 2000, the BP4027 (14.96" long) and BP4029 (9.29" long) Stereo Shotgun models are engineered for high-end broadcast and production use. Both microphones feature independent line-cardioid and figure-of-eight elements configured in an MS (Mid-Side) arrangement with switch-selectable internal matrixing. These innovative microphones allow sound recordists the choice of selecting a left-right stereo output (wide or narrow) via the microphone’s internal matrixing system or choosing discrete Mid-Side signals for later manipulation, a flexibility not available from any other manufacturer.

A switchable low frequency roll-off filter helps minimize the pickup of unwanted low frequency noise. These phantom-powered models feature a rugged lightweight design and sleek black color scheme, perfect for on-camera use.
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Old January 15th, 2014, 10:55 PM   #34
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

The Audio Technica shotgun mics have a higher noise floor the Sennheiser MKH 60 / 70 or MKH 416 / 816.
Stereo shotgun mics / stereo mics are useless around the soccer field..... Mono mics are much better as the stereo perspective is taken from the wide shot camera. Stereo mics are good for crowds but not on the field of play.
With the Olympics just think about the total quantity of mics that need to be purchased, if a lower cost / lower performance mic is suitable then why not use it. EVERY production has budgets.

Some of the Audio Technica stereo shotgun mics are no longer made....
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Old January 16th, 2014, 03:36 AM   #35
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

The AT875R would be a good choice for a short camera mounted shotgun as it is nice and focussed but not too long to get in shot.

I have the panasonic mic on my camera as a generic sound fx mic but would use more AT875R mics if I was doing a more complicated match coverage but with the full outside broadcasts on Premier League it is stock 416 and 816 all the way!

The AT mics as used on the olympics are OK and as said we use hundreds of them so cost comes into it as well.
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Old January 16th, 2014, 07:23 AM   #36
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

So would that be a good start for me with one AT875r mounted on the camera up on the Hi-Pod? Or would it better to have a couple of them mounted on mic stands on either side of me aimed towards the field, if it is the latter what height would you mount them at? Or would you cross them in an X/Y pattern?
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Old January 16th, 2014, 11:18 AM   #37
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

I have a AT4071 long shotgun which has a very high output. (89.1 mV) It was a 'replacement' for a rarely used Sennheiser 816 which was heavier and longer . The AT4071 rarely sees the light of day but is nice to have when needed.
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Old January 16th, 2014, 11:35 AM   #38
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

Would that be the better way to go and use a short shotgun and long shotgun? Would I need to mix them down to one channel? Would L and R sound weird if didn't?
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Old January 16th, 2014, 11:59 AM   #39
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

If I was doing a single camera and needed stereo I would use three of my AT875R mics, one on the camera panned centre and two rigged either side of the camera position and panned left and right.

For pro coverage they have numerous mics and mix them depending on the camera shots, they even have an i-pad app for the calrec digital mixing consoles to assist with this: http://community.calrec.com/soccer-sidekick/

It all depends what you want to get out of it and you need to experiment to get the best coverage but generally the more mics you have out the more coverage of the huge pitch area you can get but you will need someone to look after all of that so a mono approach or a tri mic stereo set-up may get you better results.

Using three mics is almost like a decca tree and the two stereo panned ones will get you general effects but the centre mono one will get you closer effects that are more appertaining to the picture framing.

I would also have the gain of the centre mono mic slightly higher than the stereo two or putting a longer shotgun on the camera would do a similar job with the two shorter shotguns for generic stereo coverage.
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Old January 16th, 2014, 02:10 PM   #40
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

I think it is unrealistic to expect to hear the kick with ANY kind of microphone from the sidelines (or end zones). What you hear in pro broadcast is almost certainly "sweetened" (i.e. somebody in a truck pushing the "Kick Sound" sound-effects button when they see a kick). Audio is not magic. High-budget productions use all sorts of behind-the-scenes "magic" to create the illusion.

If you want the sound of the kick, maybe you could just thump the camera mount. (Only HALF joking.)
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Old January 16th, 2014, 11:25 PM   #41
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

I can hear the kicks, albeit faint with my internal microphones, so I disagree that it is unrealistic to think those sounds can be picked up.

Gary the calrec program is impressive. If money was no object and I could buy 12 microphones and hire someone to operate the software.

What would you recommend in a long shotgun? Can you get one under $500?
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Old January 17th, 2014, 12:58 AM   #42
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

Greenlee,

Sorry to toss cold water on this but you simply can't overcome physics.

Sound level pickup at any microphone follows the inverse square principal. Which says that sound level falls off at the SQUARE of the distance.

So that mic one foot distant from a kicked football that sounds "perfect?" move that mic 100 feet away and you have one THOUSANDTH the level of sound.

On top of that, you have a noisy sound field to work in. Even if you had a "perfect" microphone that (a thing that does not exist) - you would STILL have the issue of the crowd noise and the misc sounds of the players and the wind and everything else competing with the sound of the foot kicking the ball.

Want great sounding kicks? Record one cleanly - and MIX that sound into your recorded sounds. That's the ONLY way you'll get it. Period.

You simply cant beat physics and no camera mounted microphone will ever get you anything but a general sound profile that can easily be screwed up by somebody walking by closer to your mic than the players on the field whilst having an argument with their boy or girlfriend.

Just how this stuff works. Sorry.
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Old January 17th, 2014, 01:11 AM   #43
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Davis View Post
So that mic one foot distant from a kicked football that sounds "perfect?" move that mic 100 feet away and you have one THOUSANDTH the level of sound.
Actually, one TEN thousandth the level of the close shot. (100 x 100 = 10,000)

That's 80 dB lower in level... not a trivial difference, not to mention the difference in timbre when you move the source 100 meters away from the mic.
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Old January 17th, 2014, 03:18 AM   #44
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

100 metres is more than three times 100 feet .
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Old January 17th, 2014, 05:52 AM   #45
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Re: Recommendations for microphones for a soccer match

and that is why we use 416 and 816 mics as they are about as good as it can get and as said you can not change the law of physics.

I sit in the prime press seats at most games and acoustically it is virtually impossible to hear most of the kicks so there is no mic that is going to amplify what is not already there.

We tend not to add effects in the OB truck as it just doesn't work besides the atmosphere of a sports event such as football tends to be the crowd and not the spot effects on the pitch.
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