Need help removing "big room" sound at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 24th, 2014, 11:19 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Menifee, CA
Posts: 126
Need help removing "big room" sound

Wondering if anyone knows how to address this problem i have. I recorded some interviews in a dance studio (which i have never done before) I used regular wireless microphone that I use in a wedding and thought all was good. Because of all the glass walls, Mirrored walls, wood floors, etc... The sound of the room is very "Big" almost like I have put a hall effect on it. is there a way to do the opposite? make a big room sound small? I guess in hindsight maybe I should have used a directional shotgun mic instead of the Omni directional wireless mic? Problem now is to try and fix after the fact. any help would be appreciated. I edit with the Adobe CC suite so those are the programs I have access to.

Help....
__________________
Sony Fan Boy! Sony AX100, VG20, RX10, A6000, CX760 and a GoPro 4
Dan Tolbertson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2014, 01:10 PM   #2
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
re: Need help removing "big room" sound

Thread title changed from ambiguous to specific (was Audio Help).
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2014, 01:44 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Atlantic Coast Canada
Posts: 578
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

Have a look/listen at/to the individual waveforms of all of the tracts. perhaps some are better than others
Bruce Dempsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2014, 01:58 PM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,844
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

Can you post a short clip? Without actually hearing it, it's difficult to make specific recommendations or offer opinions.
However, based solely on your description, iZotope's 'RX 3 advanced' audio restoration suite has a 'Dereverb' tool that.. may.. help... although it will not turn a pigs ear into a purse. ADR is another option, but that's not cheap and easy either. Other than that, there's not a lot that can be done after the fact.

I should have used a directional shotgun mic instead of the Omni directional wireless mic
> An Omni directional lav was probably a good mic choice for that environment but it could have been placed incorrectly on the wearer.
FYI, Interference tube shotgun mics are generally not a good choice for interiors, especially in 'live' rooms. Most would choose a hyper-cardioid, but in your situation, that would likely not make a night and day difference either. Sound deadening materials are the best for controlling room acoustics. ie: moving blankets, carpeting, plush furniture, drapes, ect., ect.
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2014, 01:59 PM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,267
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

Dance Studios and other large spaces with hard walls and floors often have this issue. Best to find another room for the interviews or try to deaden the area around the subject. Different mics can help. Shotguns are not much use in this environment although close micing can help. A hypercardioid head like a Schoeps MK41 Microphone Capsule MK*41 - Overview - SCHOEPS.de is better indoors. Dynamic handheld mic in the shot works but may not fit the style of presentation. Micing technique can help on lavs. Go a bit closer to the mouth with the mic than usual. If you have a more directional head for the lav that might help as well. Mics used for PA's are usually not as omnidirectional as mics used for video. Sound Blankets to deaden the room etc.
If you have already recorded the sound you will find few Post solutions completely satisfy.

Here is a link to a discussion elsewhere which you might find useful.

Audacity Forum • View topic - How to reduce reverb or echo?
Daniel Epstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2014, 03:05 AM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 65
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

This has always been an impossible problem to solve, but now there's Zynaptic Unveil. It will make your "big room" audio sound like you had a lav mic on the subject. It's crazy. I've used it in FCPX but I believe it works in Premiere too.

Of course it's not a replacement for recording your audio in the most ideal way possible. But now that you're stuck with what you have, Unveil can be a life saver.

zynaptiq: UNVEIL

Remove reverberation from audio in Final Cut Pro X with Unveil from Zynaptiq - fcp.co
Slavik Boyechko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2014, 05:27 AM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: LIncolnshire, UK
Posts: 2,051
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

I'm sure Zynaptic unveil would do a good job, but suspect that the price may be a deal breaker. I have used this programme a couple of times DyVision Reverb Remover ... VST audio plugin from DyVision Works and found it very good for the price.

Usually in the type of surroundings that you described, a lav mounted as close as possible to the subjects mouth would give the best results as the voice level would be way above the level of room reflections. It sounds as though you may have used your wireless lav for more general pickup though and ended up with too much room sound.

Roger
Roger Gunkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2014, 08:19 AM   #8
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wyomissing, PA
Posts: 1,141
Images: 57
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

No software or technique in post will ever beat the good old habit of shooting/recording it on the set correctly. You need to be aware of these issues before hand or during setup (and experience will teach you that).

If you have to shoot in a large room or want to have that large room/area as your setting/backdrop (and there's no reason why you can't), then a good omni lavalier, discreetly clipped to the talent is your best bet. This will allow you to get good separation from talent vs. room, keeping the floor at or under -42dB, with the talent hitting around -12 to -3db.

A couple of tricks to avoid echo and reflections is to use a large piece of carpeting under the talent, and then hanging some fabric on both sides of the talent (using cheap photographic backdrop stands), just outside of the camera's view. You can even go as far as draping some off the ceiling above as well. This will require a little more gear and add another hour to your setup and is well worth it. Be sure to bring a decent set of headphones to monitor the room/session.

It's OK to advise the interviewee that using a large room will invoke the need to perform these setups in order to avoid the unwanted noise. Plan accordingly.

If you're run and gun, or unable to bother with such modifications, then you need to find a quiet place, something small and full of furniture, near a book case, etc. where you can achieve the same effect.
__________________
Pete Ferling http://ferling.net It's never a mistake if you learn something new from it.
-------------------------------------------
Peter Ferling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2014, 06:56 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Menifee, CA
Posts: 126
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

Thanks for your help and input everyone. Yes, we learn from our experiences so now I will be knowledgable in a future situation like this. I will play around with some of the software recommendations but frankly any thing less than free will be out of my budget on this project. Already spoke to client and I think it will work out as this is not a final production piece and can work around it.

Thanks again! Everyone here is always such a great resource!
__________________
Sony Fan Boy! Sony AX100, VG20, RX10, A6000, CX760 and a GoPro 4
Dan Tolbertson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2014, 07:52 PM   #10
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,359
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

If you don't need to fix this particular recording, then I have another suggestion that will serve you well for many years to come.

Buy a pair of good headphones, with fairly flat response and fairly good isolation. I personally swear by the Sennheiser SD-280 Pro.

Wear them and monitor every single thing you record. No exceptions.

If you had done that when you recorded this dance studio track, you would have known the room was too live, you would have adjusted your mics or mic placement accordingly, and you would have a much better sounding track that didn't need to be "fixed in post."
Greg Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2014, 11:02 AM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Posts: 677
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Miller View Post
Buy a pair of good headphones, with fairly flat response and fairly good isolation. I personally swear by the Sennheiser SD-280 Pro.

Wear them and monitor every single thing you record. No exceptions.
+1. I'm using Sony MDR-7506s. Both the Sony and the above referenced Senny headphones are considered industry standards for monitoring dialog recording.

Monitor every recording you make. No exceptions. None.
Bruce Watson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2014, 11:06 AM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,844
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

I prefer the Sony 7506. I had a set of Sennheiser HD-280 Pro, but I'm so used to the Sony's, I exchanged them. But many pros are comfortable with them.
Headphones are generally not used for post audio decisions.
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2014, 12:25 PM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Reineke View Post
Headphones are generally not used for post audio decisions.
Agreed. Headphones don't tend to represent bass well and they certainly don't represent the soundstage properly. They also tend to make very quiet details clear, so they tempt a mixer to make quiet sounds too subtle.

That said, headphones are great for first cut, midnight mixing and editing. I like to use them to help confirm the final mix. I don't mix to make the headphones sound great, but if the headphones reveal a problem, I'll go back and tweak the mix on the monitors. (It's not a bad idea to check a mix on a consumer stereo, TV, earbuds, whatever to find any weak points.)

These days, I'm thinking that the HD280 Pros win in the studio while the 7506s win in the field. The HD280 Pros are more accurate but I've had some of the plastic parts of the headband break (though they are still usable.) The 7506s are more robust and are a bit strong in the high mids, which is great for cutting through the ambient sound for live production but not so good for critical monitoring.

Neither is a bad choice. :)
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2014, 03:55 AM   #14
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,321
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

I want to give some feedback on the software from Zynaptic Unveil.

I recently had a shoot where I needed to shoot a PTC in a room that sounded like I was in the largest reverb cavern but this had to be shot there. I used a Lapel on the presenter and hoped for the best. Results were less than great with the lapel and I thought I could clean this up with some audio fixes on my own, well I couldn't get the echo out, I knew this…..
Then I downloaded a trial from Zynaptic Unveil and WOW this works. It cleaned up my audio and left a small room reverb but this is a massive improvement and one that I'm impressed with.

It's expensive but works.

Cheers
Simon Denny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2014, 12:43 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 660
Re: Need help removing "big room" sound

I bought a bunch of thick moving pad/blankets from Home Depot a while back, and when set up properly really help cut down on the room sound.

I fluff a few up at the feet of talent, and then sort of tent the set. Perfect, no. But much better than my previous results.

Jonathan
Jonathan Levin is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:39 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network