Microphone Hi-Pass filter use - Page 2 at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 28th, 2014, 03:20 PM   #16
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

Using the HPF in production is a good idea for dialog as it can help with wind and handling noise biut most sound "tailoring" should be done in post rather than in the field. It;'s very difficult to "un-equalize": if your master was recorded with it if you later change your mind while listening in the more relaxed environment of the editing suite. Your original field recordings should be as pristine and un-tampered with as you can make them. The HPF is to prevent recording problems, not give you a certain sound.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 03:53 PM   #17
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,420
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

I'd generally agree with what Steve wrote above.

The question for these roll-offs applied at the time of recording is: Is there meaningful signal below 80 (or 160) Hz. If there isn't, take advantage of these filters on the mic and mixer. They're there because LF noise below the frequency range of dialog is commonly encountered.

But, no, James; the use of an LF rolloff for acoustic guitars has gotten a little intertwined with the discussion, and guitar should be treated differently than dialog during recording.

For guitar, I'd suggest:
If you're in an environment that has LF noise, find another place to shoot, and/or, turn off HVAC, refrigerators, other sources of noise. Or maybe shoot at another time that isn't so noisy.

Use a different mic if you can mic voice and guitar separately. The guitar mic should *not* be rolled off, not in the mic, not in the mixer channel.

If invisible micing is required, a boom mic, hypercardoid or short shotgun would usually be tried first for guitar. This could be supplemented with lav for voice, but most lav positions will get a lot of LF off the guitar.

A lot of this kind of work is done with a performer lip-syncing to a studio recording, or some other recording that was done with visible mics, because it's frequently hard to get the recording you'd like to have when invisible micing is required. Not an insurmountable obstacle in many (not all!) circumstances, but specialized mics, multichannel recording, installation of invisible pickups in guitars, lavs hidden in hair instead of on the chest, all these techniques and more can come out.

So... why is it that you're concerned about the female voice / guitar combo? What would the actual shooting circumstances be?
__________________
30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.
Seth Bloombaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 09:06 PM   #18
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Merritt Island, Florida
Posts: 865
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

Mr. Seth Bloombaum...nothing specific regarding 'the female voice / guitar combo', it was an example used during the discussion.

It interested me from the standpoint of a specific application for the use of the 160Hz HPF, i.e., female voices.

Neophytes, like me, are always interested in an example of when to use a particular 'adjustment/effect'.

Or, as in the case of the 'Guitar', when not to use an adjustment/effect.

I also realize these are 'guidelines', not hard and fast 'rules'. But, as I often say, you have to start somewhere. It also gives me another data point for my 'best practices' list in my head.

This thread will definitely be copied and pasted to my 'Audio File'. : )


Thank you.

J.
James Kuhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2014, 09:42 AM   #19
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 2,037
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Kuhn View Post
I don't currently have an audio S/W application, My NLE (Vegas Pro) has a rudimentary audio section, 'mixing board', certainly not sophisticated by any stretch.
I'm not familiar with the term "S/W"
VP's audio capabilities are as (or more) sophisticated and intuitive than many (audio only) DAWs. It supports both DX and VST plug-ins with automation of most parameters. In addition, the architecture was always 32bit floating point, since Vegas 1 (which was audio only) long before 'SloTools' adopted it. It ain't perfect though and lacks in some areas. (side-chaining for instance)
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2014, 06:56 PM   #20
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,420
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

Hope this isn't too far off topic, but Rick started it!

I too have been a Vegas user since V1, when it was about the only multitrack non-destructive audio editor for windows (PT was mac-only at the time).

I've been teaching the Adobe CC suite... but I have to say that Vegas ranks right up there and in some ways superior to Audition and the audio side of Premiere.

Premiere does have a nice Merge Clips on audio feature, that on a project with few takes will easily auto-sync double-system sound (if you have *some* sound on the cam). But for a larger project with 10s or 100s of clips you'd still want Plural Eyes.

Audition does have a cool ADR sync-up, that I've never used.

But day in and day out Vegas is fast, accurate, good sounding, and supports any kind of workflow you could want. In particular, Audition separates into two interfaces, waveform (destructive) editing and multitrack. Certain of the filters, like NR, must be applied applied destructively even in the multitrack interface. Sony's stock filters are very good, better IMO than Audition. And they all work non-destructively, in a single interface, with excellent tweakability.

But if you have to play well with others, Adobe CC has largely taken over the indie/corporate market here.
__________________
30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.
Seth Bloombaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2014, 09:06 PM   #21
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Merritt Island, Florida
Posts: 865
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

Mr. Rick Reineke...it's my abbreviation for 'Software'. Probably not correct.

J.
James Kuhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30th, 2014, 03:29 AM   #22
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Posts: 11
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

Although you should always aim to "get it right" in production, there is nothing wrong with tweaking things a little in post. Really deep rumbles can overload some mics and mic inputs, so 80 hz is a good start, but I often play around in post to see if I should cut more low end (eg at maybe 100 hz) or notch something out higher up - although I would go to iZotope RX for more involved stuff.

BTW: In post, EQ always sounds more natural when cutting, rather than boosting frequencies.
__________________
Hzandbits Sound Effects | http://www.hzandbits.com
Christian Hagelskjaer From is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 10:09 AM   #23
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Merritt Island, Florida
Posts: 865
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

Mr. Rick Reineke and Mr. Seth Bloombaum ...As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I strive to obtain as clean an audio signal as possible 'up-front'.

To be fair to Vegas Pro (VP), I haven't delved very deeply into the 'audio features' within the software beyond adjusting overall levels up or down. My bad.

So, when I said the software's capability was 'rudimentary', that was a bad 'assumption' on my part.

My thinking was, a dedicated audio mixing software would be significantly more sophisticated than what came 'bundled' in VP. I'm sure that's true to a certain extent, but it doesn't diminish the capabilities of VP. I need to investigate and become more conversant in the use of the tools I have, rather than criticize.

The old adage, "A poor Craftsman blames his tools.", comes to mind. : )

The truth is, my audio skills are 'rudimentary', not the software application. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

Best regards,

J.
James Kuhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 11:03 AM   #24
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,420
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

No problem James.

As you develop your post audio skills, you'll find Vegas is very capable. And, as a single tool that combines audio and video editing, it's very efficient, you can do both without any export/import rigamarole where you have to keep track of intermediate files.

In Adobe CC there are THREE different interfaces to learn, och. The audio side of Premiere, the Waveform editor, and the Multitrack editor. With different shortcut keys for common tasks like zooming in/out on the timeline. (Hm, there's probably a setting to get them to be the same, but I have to teach the standard interface, I think)

Vegas has very good versions of all the basic audio tools, though I've been a little confused over the years about Noise Reduction. At times it's come with Sony's Sound Forge, other times in Vegas, other times as a standalone product. It's great and occasionally very needed. And to finish the suite of audio tools, a mastering package like Izotope Ozone is very handy for music production. But what Vegas is capable of natively is excellent for audio-for-video.

An editor who is finishing his/her own work should be learning the uses of (dynamic range) compressors and parametric equalization. Those skills alone, combined with good monitoring, will make most projects shine.

Vegas also allows you to cut audio down to the sample level, unlike other NLEs that only cut down to the frame level. There's a big difference between 1/30th of a second and 1/48,000th of a second precision when you're concerned about breathes, clicks, and syllables.

Again, playing well with others can dictate the software you have to work on, but if you know post-audio in Vegas you have a whole bunch of skills that are transferable to any other software.
__________________
30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.
Seth Bloombaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 11:30 AM   #25
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Merritt Island, Florida
Posts: 865
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

Thanks, Seth! I appreciate your thoughtful response.

Best regards,

J.
James Kuhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 11:34 AM   #26
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 2,037
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

My thinking was, a dedicated audio mixing software would be significantly more sophisticated than what came 'bundled' in VP
> An external mix surface can be added to VP (same w/ PTs). The latest version of VP is bungled with over 35 mono / stereo / 5:1 plugins'. More if one also has Sound Forge Pro (recommended), OTOH, most pros have there own third-party favorites anyway (Waves for example). All things being equal, there would be no audible difference between PTs, Nuendo and VP.
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 12:06 PM   #27
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Merritt Island, Florida
Posts: 865
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

Thanks, Rick! I appreciate your insight. BTW, I'm using VP v. 11.0.

Best regards,

J.
James Kuhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2014, 12:55 PM   #28
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Posts: 11
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

James, I know a guy who runs a recording studio based on a workstation running Vegas, so it's definitely capable enough. And yes, getting some chops with parametric eq and compression/limiting will serve you well. If you want to get fancy with regards to removal of unwanted sounds/noise, iZotope's RX4 is hard to beat. But it is a bit costly at around 350 list price, and takes some practicing to really master. Still, it has saved enough of my audio to make itself indispensable.
__________________
Hzandbits Sound Effects | http://www.hzandbits.com
Christian Hagelskjaer From is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2014, 09:43 PM   #29
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Merritt Island, Florida
Posts: 865
Re: Microphone Hi-Pass filter use

Thanks, Christian! The journey continues...

J.
James Kuhn is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:13 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network