A-T899 lav a bit "hissy" - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 8th, 2015, 04:28 PM   #16
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
Re: A-T899 lav a bit "hissy"

For lavs, I believe that the smaller size reduces the output at low frequencies but not necessarily at high frequencies. Turning it around, I need a big woofer to create powerful bass, but a small tweeter or compression driver can create piercing high frequency sounds.

So, it depends... If the manufacturer EQs the smaller mic to deliver stronger bass frequencies, the noise will increase with the bass boost. If they allow more LF rolloff, there won't necessarily be additional noise, unless you boost the bass in post.

Note that some say the larger AT803b sounds better than the smaller AT899 because of its superior bass response. The AT899 is more expensive because it's more difficult to engineer good sound in the smaller package, not necessarily because of better sound.

Interestingly, the Sanken COS-11D uses a lengthwise plane as its diaphragm, rather than a circular or end-address diaphragm in order to get a large surface area in a small package.

Here's an excellent blog post where the author takes one apart and shares the photos:
Sanken COS-11 Lavalier Dissection - Audio Signal Generator - txsound.com blog
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2015, 04:41 PM   #17
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 660
Re: A-T899 lav a bit "hissy"

Thanks for your help. I've run a few tests: All tests were reviewed on system. Mic position on t-shirt about 4 inches from chin, was able to reduce levels a bit.

1) Lav with supplied "Element cover" and with "element cover" and foam wind screen. After performing a test just to see if there was a huge difference between using the "element cover and the foam or just the element cover, I concluded that I couldn't tell to my ears much difference, so I did the rest of my tests with just the element cover.

With roll off (please correct me if I am not using the right terms) set to flat ____ and then set to /----. (Dashed line should be at top of leaning line) Flat is definitely boomier but /---- was to thin. Something in between would be nice, but nothing I couldn't adjust in post using either setting.

AA Battery was IN the connector capsule but everything plugged into a phantom powered input on mixer.

I still had a bit of hiss but I also recorded with levels down on the mixer a bit as well as on the recorder. No clipping occurred except when my chin rubbed mic when I went to look down for something.

2) I also tested the same as above but I removed the AA battery from the capsule and just ran on Phantom. Interestingly, the mics gain seemed to increase just a bit without the use of the AA battery.

I'm starting to get a good feel for this mic. I'll probably keep it and use it with the "element cover" in place since that did make a difference from the tests I did with nothing on the lav.

I also need to dance around with my settings on the mixer, I may need to go a little lower as well as on the recorder.

My question for you: Is it better to record with the roll off set to flat _____ and adjust a little of the boom OUT in post, or is it better to have the roll off set to /---- and adjust MORE low end in post? Or does it not matter?

I'm going to need a few years to understand some of the lingo you guys know.

Jonathan
Jonathan Levin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2015, 05:25 PM   #18
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
Re: A-T899 lav a bit "hissy"

Indoors, I would set it flat. Outdoors, I would use the low cut to reduce possible wind noise. The low cut will help prevent your preamp/recorder from overloading during bursts of wind, plosives, etc. If you don't cut at the mic and clip the recording, you can't recover it in post.

In my experience, the EQ depends on how the person matches the mic. If you have multiple people speaking, you might need to add some EQ to give the voices similar weight. I do this by adjusting the low shelf and working on the 200-300 Hz range, which is roughly the fundamental frequency of the human voice. If one person booms and that boom matches a strong spot for the mic, they can sound too full. If another person has a weaker voice and their fundamental hits a low spot for the mic, they can sound especially thin. Matching overall levels and then working in this range to match multiple speakers works great.

Other important frequencies:
* At 100 Hz, you can boost the music and sfx without bumping into dialog.
* At 200-300 Hz, you can cut the music to make room for the voice fundamentals described above.
* You can cut the voice broadly around 600 Hz to make room for music and sfx.
* Around 1200 Hz is important for consonants and clarity. Boost as needed. (You can cut the music in this area.)
* 2400 Hz is in the region of nasal tones. Adjust this area to tame a harsh voice or add life to a dull one. Note that a heavy cut here will make a flute, oboe, or clarinet all sound similar. Same for voices. If two characters sound similar, work on this area to differentiate them. This is where golden ears really earn their money. (My ears are bronze at best!)
* 5k - 15k is "air". Boost this to add freshness to a voice, but too much will boost noise/hiss.

I find that this simple guide helps me to do basic EQ quickly and effectively. Masters of the art are able to fine tune things precisely within those regions. When I try that, I'm slow and I'm not quite sure if I'm making things better or worse. But at least I can work the larger regions okay. :)
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2015, 07:33 PM   #19
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,609
Re: A-T899 lav a bit "hissy"

Jonathan, one thing you mentioned in your first post was the mic was about 7 inches from the mouth. In your last post you said you had it about 4 inches.
Now I'm no expert but I was taught many years ago that a lav really should be about a fist down from the talents mouth. IOWs, make a fist. Place it to the talents chin and at the bottom of the fist is where the mic should be. It's always worked for me.
__________________
What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer.
Don
Don Bloom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2015, 07:53 PM   #20
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 660
Re: A-T899 lav a bit "hissy"

Jon, thanks for that info. I really need to go back and review Jay Rose's book on audio about all this Hz and frequency business. Kind of embaressed I am having a hard time understanding a that.

Right now I am going with my ears and the meters on my devices, making sure I stay well away from the 0dB/Red on those. And then I do a thorough review on a computer audio system. A mixer with a built in recorder makes things a whole lot less complex in my book.

Don- yes that seems about right, my fist is about four inches. When ever I watch some news show or program where a speaker is wired with a lav, I ways like to see how far, which direction (up or down), windscreen (even indoors), no windscreen, lots of variation. And obviously depending on which way talent is speaking dictates right or left placement.

Jonathan
Jonathan Levin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2015, 12:12 AM   #21
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
Re: A-T899 lav a bit "hissy"

I place a lav at the 2nd to the top button on a shirt at the highest. The problem with higher mounting is that the audio varies when the talent turns their head. One could vary it for the talent/genre. A stoic person in an interview could do fine with a high mic. An animated person in an action film wide shot would merit a lower position.

From memory, doesn't Jon Stewart wear his mic at roughly the third button?
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2015, 10:42 AM   #22
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,844
Re: A-T899 lav a bit "hissy"

The definition of "hiss" is usually associated with BG noise (as in tape hiss) and that's what I assumed. But I gather Jonathan means 'sibilance'. So yes, move the mic up closer to the wearer's chin and use a windscreen. In audio post, a de-esser is a common tool to further control it.
Except when wind noise is an issue, a HP filter is usually not needed on lavalieres due to their inherent frequency response.
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2015, 11:30 AM   #23
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 660
Re: A-T899 lav a bit "hissy"

Rick,

Thanks. This may be a very dumb question, but when you say a HP filter (assuming that means high pass) is that the same thing as the term roll-off, the (flat)_____ or /----- setting? Or something completely different.

Howe do you guys keep from going insane?

JL
Jonathan Levin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2015, 01:23 PM   #24
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,844
Re: A-T899 lav a bit "hissy"

Yes, the same as 'low frequency roll-off or rumble filter.. I've seen lots of different names and have even seen it notated in a camera's menu as.. 'wind'. ..

When I was a music recording engineer, clients used to always ask, "what's 'PFL' stand for"? (pointing to the channel button on the mixing console). My response.. "pretty f___ing loud" . (a little audio humor)
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:48 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network