Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?

[Patrick Tracy]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

However, I watch US drama and note all US courts feature podium and desk mics, why not use them?

I often see them placed for visual effect rather than audio effectiveness.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

The goal posts move so fast in this topic. No sooner do we settle on one problem, we zap off on another. I'm picturing now a court room. Usual layout. Quite a few people speaking a long way apart. Screams lavs to me, not a boom, or booms.

Rotating a mic on the end of a boom doesn't create wind noise to me. Remember Fisher booms in to studios, they can move a mic up down left and right very quickly and with no wind noise on a short shotgun. They can snap left and right between people. It's what they do. Interphase? The ℗ between different actor's lines. If you choose to ignor one actor, how do you recover it? Shoot again this time favouring the other..

YOu made it clear you are a beginner, now you have others doing it for you?

If you want to do it properly, then do it. Your solutions appear to be doom and gloom. You have one mic, you now have a big space, with lots of people to cover with it.

However, I watch US drama and note all US courts feature podium and desk mics, why not use them? Or hire some lavs and a multitrack recorder, or hire a spare boom op and do it properly. If you dont have the time to learn how to move a mic silently, or find a way to do it with one mic, then how can we help. Is the next scene going to be suddenly outside, in a blizzard, next to a jet airplane, with an actor trying to whisper to another? It's problem after problem, and every solution brushed aside with reasons it won't work.

I have a strong feeling most of the problems are just down to a lack of knowledge and skills, and jumping too far before the experience catches up. I really understand beginners getting in, but this is like auditioning for the third spear carrier in Shakespeare and then discovering you are sharing the lead role!

Oh okay, thanks. Why is it that fisher booms do not suffer from it particularly? Is there something better about them than boom poles? Also it's only the AT4053b that seems more sensitive to wind. The NTG-3 I also have, does not have wind problems when moving the boom in comparison. Does that mean anything significant?

As for courtroom having podiums, I thought that was just for public trials, where there is a large group of onlookers in the back who want to hear everything. This is just a preliminary hearing scene, where there are no onlookers, so would the lawyers still speak through podium mics then? I can research that.

[Richard Crowley]

Many modern courtrooms use audio (and video) recording instead of (or in addition to) a court stenographer. It is not uncommon to see gooseneck microphones especially on the witness and the judge for purposes of recording. The jury has no speaking parts. But the attorneys are the wild cards and may wander all over the place, but often speak from their respective tables. I would put wireless on the attorneys if they are wandering around. OTOH, for arraignment or preliminary hearings, they are often shown with the opposing counsel standing at podiums facing the judge.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Courtroom mics are not for amplification, they are for the monitor who is recording it to to maintain the record of the proceedings. Podium/table mics are the most feasible solution for that situation, they’re not intended for anything of quality that would be used in cinema.

[Richard Crowley]

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

Courtroom mics are not for amplification, they are for the monitor who is recording it to to maintain the record of the proceedings. Podium/table mics are the most feasible solution for that situation, they’re not intended for anything of quality that would be used in cinema.

True, but Ryan's "cinema quality audio" ship sailed weeks ago. We seem to be trying to discover the "least horrible" way of capturing dialog with limited resources. Although, if he has already recorded "wet" dialog track, that ship has already sailed as well.

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - I have an AT 851 - quite a long shotgun, it does Not cause any grief when it is moved through 90 degrees, even quickly. I think you need to show/let us hear and example. Can you record a bit ion the problem and let us hear it please. I'm wondering if we are imagining a different problem than the one you have?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Richard Crowley

True, but Ryan's "cinema quality audio" ship sailed weeks ago. We seem to be trying to discover the "least horrible" way of capturing dialog with limited resources. Although, if he has already recorded "wet" dialog track, that ship has already sailed as well.

Time to call the harbor master, too many ships are sailing.

I work in the legal field and I can’t imagine any court allowing you inside to film an indie movie and plug into their sound system to use their courtroom mics.

But honestly you have a sense of humor out this project/thread.

[Paul R Johnson]

I missed this bit. He's using a real court? I don't even know if that's ever been done here? Courts are kind of special and protected. I figured they'd built a set.

However, if you fancy coming to England, the one in my town has just closed down and is for sale?

[Josh Bass]

Not as insane as it might sound...I worked on zero budget short film that used a local law enforcement-centric high school's courtroom. Maybe something like that. More amusing that anyone thought there was a budget to build a courtroom set.

[Brian Drysdale]

With the right approach and not wanting one in a large city, a court room could be quite possible.

On one of my short films we got the inside of an airport terminal as a location for a morning, of course you would have considerably more difficulty doing that post 9/11. I suspect our budget was larger than this feature film;s budget, since we were paying people and shooting on Super 16 for a 35mm blow up.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, I didn't know they didn't use stenographers anymore. But if I was to have mics at the podium, I thought I would use my own mics, like the AT4053b, and the NTG-3, and have those mics on the podium for the actors, and have those be the podium mics, rather than use actual courtroom podium mics, if that's a good idea?

Also, here is the sound of me tilting the boom as if I was tilting it from one actor to another, about 90 degrees, back and forth. The mic makes noise when tilting it back and forth, and I thought it was the wind interference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZh2...ature=youtu.be

[Brian Drysdale]

It sounds mechanical to me.

[Paul R Johnson]

Well Ryan - I think we're all saying the same thing here - that is NOT wind. What kind of suspension are you using? I'm with Brian - that sounds like a rubbing, mechanical noise. I can actually make that noise with one of my mics with the foam windshield. it has a tendency to slip slightly off, and then the wind pressure when moving actually physically makes the foam shift slightly, rubbing the metal tube and making a very similar noise. Does it make the exact same noise without the windshield, with just a naked mic? Also I can get clunks from my Sennheiser Zeppelin if I move it quickly and rotate the thing, the mic front goes one way, the back the other and they sometimes run out of travel.

Wind doesn't sound like that. I have a long day today but I'll try to record some real wind noise if I can for comparison.

[Paul R Johnson]

Well - I thought I'd do the recording before I rushed out of the door, and what a mistake that was.

I recorded a clip of a 416 inside the Sennheiser zepplin housing.
I then repeated this with an Audio Technical's 815 - this is shown in the image below. Elderly now and a bit noisy compared to the 416. Holding the tube in my hand I moved it rapidly, indoors from on axis to my mouth to the position a second person would be. You can hear the speed I did it, and even with the extended grill area all exposed, this rapid movement produces no noise I can hear from the wind passing. I did first a comparison with the 416 inside the right hand housing seen in the picture. Sadly, doing a test with the other one is no longer possible, thanks to me keeping it in a soft Vinten tripod bag for years, which has been fine, but not so fine this morning when the bag was on the floor and I tipped over a heavy flight case which dropped and landed on it. I don't believe glue will be a solution here.
http://www.limelight.org.uk/pic2.jpg
http://www.limelight.org.uk/pic1.jpg
http://www.limelight.org.uk/416.mp3
http://www.limelight.org.uk/815.mp3

I'm taking the pragmatic view that the case could have landed on my foot, rather than on the microphone housing. I hope you all feel my pain. It does though hopefully convince Ryan the noise he hears is not static, or wind. Shotguns indoors just don't have wind problems that cannot be managed. For reference the low frequency roll off switch on BOTH mics is left on off - so it's flat.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

It sounds mechanical to me.

Agreed. Most likely its coming from whatever it’s mounted to or the cable rubbing or hitting, maybe a loose windscreen. Would have been more helpful to see a video.

At this point I think it be easier if we just filmed it for him.