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Old November 22nd, 2005, 05:21 AM   #1
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Best Mic money can buy

Sorry if the question has been asked several times before but i didn't find what i'm looking for.

Simple question, answer may not be.

I need the best value mic (high-end) primary for indoor situation (dialogue) that will be used along with my Panasonic HVX-200 (not sure if recording sound separetely is really best...)

I'm looking for shotgun and wireless kit also

I would like a very natural and warm sound.
Shotgun must be very sensitive and very focused to avoid all sound except the target.
I have actually a Azden SGM-2x which i don't like very much. I would like to upgrade and compare to the Azden and say "Wow! that's fabulous!"

Thank you for your help
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Old November 22nd, 2005, 05:41 AM   #2
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One of the film industry standards for indoor dialog is the Schoeps CMC641 hypercardoid. A standard shotgun is the Sennheiser 416 but Schoeps has recently introduced a shotgun that looks like it'll be a very strong contender.
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Old November 22nd, 2005, 05:47 AM   #3
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So this add to my list of prospects:


- Sennheiser MKH-416
- Sennheiser MKH-70
- Neumann KMR82/KM82i
- Sanken CS5
- Schoeps CMC641


I don't even know the retail price of each.. I actually don't know much regarding high-end mic nor i do know if i should consider recording separately (DAT?) or use the HVX-200 (48kHz 16-bit 4-channel PCM audio (2 XLRs)

One thing is sure, as an audiophile i'm very picky regarding sound. Probably more than image and all that high definition hype...
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Old November 22nd, 2005, 07:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Miova
So this add to my list of prospects:


- Sennheiser MKH-416
- Sennheiser MKH-70
- Neumann KMR82/KM82i
- Sanken CS5
- Schoeps CMC641


I don't even know the retail price of each.. I actually don't know much regarding high-end mic nor i do know if i should consider recording separately (DAT?) or use the HVX-200 (48kHz 16-bit 4-channel PCM audio (2 XLRs)

One thing is sure, as an audiophile i'm very picky regarding sound. Probably more than image and all that high definition hype...
For Schoeps and Sennheiser you're looking at about $1500 to $2000 US each.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 08:15 PM   #5
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Thanks Steve


Any other comments from someone else about these mics or other similar ?
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Old November 24th, 2005, 02:40 AM   #6
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mic

Thanks to some good advise on this site I went for the Sennheiser 416. Not cheap at Łuk800 + another Łuk400 for the cradle,windshield,pistol grip,boom,etc...

But what a mic! It's sound quality blows anything else I've used in the past out of the water.
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Old November 24th, 2005, 04:26 AM   #7
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Bear in mind that the preferred practice for interiors is a hypercardoid while outdoors it's a shotgun. If you're in a large, open studio or soundstage situation environmental reflections are less an issue you can use a shotgun like the Sennheiser 416 but for smaller interiors such as those where most videos are shot, the bass coloration of off-axis sounds makes it less desirable. Shotguns are less directional at bass frequencies than they are in the mid to higher ranges. Hypercardoids are more evenly directional in frequency but don't have quite the "reach" of a shotgun. Ideally you'd have both in your arsenal so you could pick the one that works best for the particular conditions of the shot.
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Old November 24th, 2005, 10:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Miova
Thanks Steve


Any other comments from someone else about these mics or other similar ?

I have both the Senn. 416 and Schoeps MK41. The Schoeps
when equipped with a CUT 1 roll off filter will rock your world.
About $2K. You can't do better IMO, BUT Schoeps mics are subject
to high humidty and will 'motorboat' before the Sennheisers.
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Old November 24th, 2005, 11:47 AM   #9
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I don't think the Sanken CS5 belongs in that group. Isn't it a stereo shotgun? Perhaps you meant the CS3e?
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Old November 24th, 2005, 04:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House
Bear in mind that the preferred practice for interiors is a hypercardoid while outdoors it's a shotgun. If you're in a large, open studio or soundstage situation environmental reflections are less an issue you can use a shotgun like the Sennheiser 416 but for smaller interiors such as those where most videos are shot, the bass coloration of off-axis sounds makes it less desirable. Shotguns are less directional at bass frequencies than they are in the mid to higher ranges. Hypercardoids are more evenly directional in frequency but don't have quite the "reach" of a shotgun. Ideally you'd have both in your arsenal so you could pick the one that works best for the particular conditions of the shot.
Then, i will go with the hypercardoid (or "hypercardioid, not sure what is the right spelling.. haha) because i really DON'T want that bass coloration.

When you say "dont quite the "reach" of a shotgun" is that mean that difference is huge regarding this particularity ? Or only in extreme situations ? I'm looking to work in standard rooms (houses, appartement, etc..) not large studio, is the reach will be enough with hypercardoid ?

I have another question regarding bass coloration and unwanted sound reflections: is it usual that, sometimes, room is acousticly modified (anechoic material) in order to avoid problems ? Or usually people tend to make their best according to natural room sounding ?

Just wondering how far we can go (in low-moderate budget thinking) to get the best sound recording..

Thanks for all your inputs.

Jon
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Old November 24th, 2005, 04:47 PM   #11
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Our forum compatriot Ty Ford has an excellent video clip on his web site that he's made available for download and that illustrates the differences between a shotgun and a hypercardioid (specifically the Senheiser 416 and Schoeps 641) including the working distance and bass colouration issues. www.tyford.com and look in the audio/video archives.
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Old November 24th, 2005, 09:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
I have another question regarding bass coloration and unwanted sound reflections: is it usual that, sometimes, room is acousticly modified (anechoic material) in order to avoid problems ? Or usually people tend to make their best according to natural room sounding ?
You can put up sound blankets in a room to cut down on its reverb.

Generally you should try to avoid noisy locations. Scout ahead of time, and turn off noise-generating equipment.

A boom is typically the preferred way to grab sound since you can put it close to the talent's mouth. A wireless lav will get closer (and hence even less reverb), but they don't sound quite as good.
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Old November 24th, 2005, 10:06 PM   #13
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You can treat most rooms if you have enough time, but in practical situations, it isn't always feasible. On nearly every shoot I've worked on (where we've done sound for other people's productions) the DP wouldn't let us put down enough blankets because they screwed up his shot. Time is always an issue too. They never want to wait for sound.

Last edited by Marco Leavitt; November 24th, 2005 at 11:02 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2005, 01:34 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House
Our forum compatriot Ty Ford has an excellent video clip on his web site that he's made available for download and that illustrates the differences between a shotgun and a hypercardioid (specifically the Senheiser 416 and Schoeps 641) including the working distance and bass colouration issues. www.tyford.com and look in the audio/video archives.
Steve, this video

http://homepage.mac.com/tyreeford/.P...al%20VIdeo.mp4

Is what i call HELPFUL :-)

Now i do understand...

Thanks to Ty Ford.


Still, i am not sure how to use hypercardioid (such the Schoeps as shown) if i can't use it from, let say 3-4 ft.

But i definitively can't use the shotgun in normal small-medium rooms unless i control the low frequencies reflections...

The thing is: i DO like the long reach of the shotgun...

Well. Sound recording is much more complicated that what i thought... haha
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Old November 25th, 2005, 06:03 AM   #15
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I just posted a message in another thread "Condenser mic vs shotgun" you may find helpful.

If you want to learn more about the differences between the various pickup or "Polar" patterns, visit the Audio Technica or Shure web sites for their "How To..." guides. Understanding when to use a hypercardioid rather than a cardioid can make a real difference, and the biggest difference is behind the mic, not in front of it.

Indoors, most shotgun mics pick up reflections in all frequency bands, not just the lows. The 416 in particular is nearly omnidirectional from the low-mids down. Many professionals have switch over to either the Sanken CS-3e or the CS-1. Sanken mics have unusually good off-axis rejection across the entire frequency band.

3-4 feet is an unusually long distance for any boom mic situation other than news or wide shots, unless you're in an acoustically treated space such as a stage or studio. Usually, picture framing is controlled to allow closer micing for better sound, not to mention a more visualy informative picture.

What are you looking for in a wireless kit, and what is your budget range?
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