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Old March 20th, 2006, 05:07 PM   #1
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Two Sennheiser G2s on a Canon XL-Series Cam

Hello all!

I'm in the market for two lavaliers, complete with wireless transmitters and receivers. As usual, I was able to dig up a lot of useful information on the forum here, and it seems to me that a Sennheiser G2 (100-series) setup would suit me well.

I'm planning to regularly use two wireless lavs in mobile situations with the receivers mounted on the camera. I currently own a Canon XL-1s, but plan to upgrade to the XL-H1 in the near future. Here are a some questions that I didn't find answers to so far:

- Am I assuming correctly that I need a receiver for every transmitter in use? Or worded differently: are there receivers that can handle two (or more) transmitters concurrently?
- How do I best mount the needed number of receivers on a Canon XL-series cam?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Warm regards,

Ron
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Old March 20th, 2006, 05:22 PM   #2
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You need a receiver channel for each transmitter and generally you achieve this with separate transmitter/receiver pairs. Of course, each pair must have its own dedicated frequency and you need to pay attention to the channels you set into them - Sennheiser recommends leaving an unused guard channel between channelk - if you have one pair on channel 1, skip ch 2 and put the next no closer than channel 3. Dual channel receivers do exist but are pricey. For example, B&H Photo lists a Sony dual channel receiver at $3500 and the ElectroVoice CSR1000 at $1700, just for the receiver. They also list some Azdens in the $500 range but they're, well, Azdens.
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Old March 20th, 2006, 08:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Pfister
... How do I best mount the needed number of receivers on a Canon XL-series cam?...
There are a few little gadgets for this. A Canon XL is (I believe) no different than most other cameras, there isn't a spot for your receivers.

There are brackets like this http://www.markertek.com/SearchProdu...ff=8&sort=prod that go into a hot shoe socket. You'd strap 2 receivers back to back on either side of the bracket. Usually with stickum velcro on the backs, then another velcro strap around the whole rig, or maybe a bongo strap. Probably makes an XL-whatever even more front-heavy.

Then there are boxes that mount to the tripod socket, and have a tripod socket on the bottom like this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search.

And brackets like this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search, which really help for handheld work, and have places to strap things. Something like this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...lue=194070_REG mounts to that bracket for even more room to strap on stuff.

Or just a straight bracket like this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...lue=283966_REG.

***edit***
Whoops, here's one from BEC like the last one above, but a specialized design for the XL1-XL2 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation
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Old March 20th, 2006, 10:56 PM   #4
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And then there's my personal favorite:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation
It sports two mounting shoes, although one is hard to see in the pic. It has a very solid feel to it. Quite a bang for the ten bucks.
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Old March 21st, 2006, 02:47 AM   #5
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Thanks for all the useful info! While I ponder the receiver mounting situation some more, I have a question regarding mikes: There are Sennheiser G2/100 bundles with either the ME 2 or the ME 4 mikes. Price is the same (USD 499.95 as of this writing). What's the difference? What would you recommend?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=324242&is=REG

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=324273&is=REG

TIA for your help!

Cheers,

Ron
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Last edited by Ron Pfister; March 21st, 2006 at 04:21 PM.
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Old March 21st, 2006, 05:18 AM   #6
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Some answers and more questions:

I have talked to the mothership (Sennheiser Germany), if you will - excellent tech support, I might add. They advised me to go for the ME 2 mikes due to their omni-directional characteristics. This is suitable for my use, since the audio I use is primarily used in-camera and is generally not fed out to a PA system. Does the ME 2 look like the right choice to you?

Regarding mounting two receivers on-camera, I have found that Sennheiser makes a hot shoe mounting plate for the EK 100 G2 receiver. Does anyone know first-hand whether this plate is included in the aforementioned kits available at B&H? The specs on the B&H-site don't say. The kits advertised through Sennheiser's site include the mounting plate. Here's a link to it:

http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser...nsf/root/21411

Since I'm planning to use two receivers, I found that this adapter by Rycote should be able to accommodate both receivers on their respective hot shoe mounting plates side-by-side:

http://www.rycote.com/HOTSHOEEXT.asp

Has anyone here used this setup successfully?

TIA for any feddback you may have on these ideas!

Cheers,

Ron
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Old March 21st, 2006, 02:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Pfister
I have talked to the mothership... Does the ME 2 look like the right choice to you?

...this adapter by Rycote... Has anyone here used this setup successfully?
Ron, the ME2 is the right choice for the reasons Senn. gave you. The other reasons to choose ME4 is if you shoot primarily in noisy environments with pro talent. Seach the forum for omni lav and cardoid lav for more info on this issue, but, generally, omni lav is the choice.

The little rycote adaptor looks cool - haven't seen it in person.

One of the B&H brackets from BEC has available accessories that clip a EW100G2 receiver onto it, I've always gone with velcro & straps because versatility is important to me (variety of cameras, rentals, plus audio-only recording...).
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Old March 21st, 2006, 03:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum
One of the B&H brackets from BEC has available accessories that clip a EW100G2 receiver onto it...
Seth, ist this the one you're referring to?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=284436&is=REG

Incidentally, I just talked to a sales rep @ B&H and the hot shoe mounting plate IS included with the kits I've mentioned above. I also found yet another hot shoe adapter as an alternative to the Rycote model mentioned above:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=126229&is=REG

I know that the transmitter and receiver antennas are _in theory_ supposed to have roughly the same orientation. All the hot shoe mounting solutions I found thus far would result in the receivers lying 'flat' with the antennas either pointing forward or back. The transmitters are most likely attached to the talent with the antenna pointing up. Would this deviation from theory represent a problem in reality?


TIA for any insights!

Ron
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Last edited by Ron Pfister; March 21st, 2006 at 04:22 PM.
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Old March 21st, 2006, 03:57 PM   #9
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You're BH links doesn't work Ron, There wishlist-links or something..
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Old March 21st, 2006, 04:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Rozenberg
You're BH links doesn't work Ron, There wishlist-links or something..
Thanks for noticing this, Vincent! I tried shortening the URLs for convenience, and it worked when I initially tested them. But seemed to have something to do with the session during which I created them. Anyway, should be fixed now. Does it work?
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 11:08 AM   #11
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Some feedback regarding my Sennheiser G2-quest: I had to realize that frequency range D is required for standard-conformant operation of wireless mikes in central Europe (Austria, Germany, Switzerland). Unfortunately, B&H does not carry the aforementioned G2-kits in the D frequency range - so I had to look for alternatives.

First, I considered going for the Sony UW-PC1, which B&H does carry in a frequency range that's suitable for Switzerland. After a little bit or research, however, I decided to stick with the G2, and started to look for sources here in Europe.

After a bit of digging, I've been able to find an excellent deal for the Sennheiser ew 112-p G2 kits (cf. link in previous post) with the ME-2 mike swapped out for the MKE 2-ew Gold at Digital Audio Service in Hamburg. Here's their URL:

http://www.digitalaudioservice.de/cm...est=main_audio

I'm getting two of the kits for an equivalent of USD 1'400.-- (before tax). Not bad, I thought. Now I just hope the shipment gets here in time for my shoot at the end of next week...

Hope this info is helpful for other European DVi-ers facing the same problem...

Cheers,

Ron
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Old March 28th, 2006, 11:37 AM   #12
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I received the G2-units today, and they work wonderfully! I also realized that the hot shoe mounting plates that are part of the kit have a nice feature: the hot shoe mount itself can be detached from the plate.

I cut a piece of aluminum sheet metal to the apropriate size (7 x 13 cm, 2 mm thick) so it accommodates both receivers, drilled holes in the required pattern in the center of the plate and attached the hot shoe mount to this plate. The receivers clip perfectly onto this plate with the supplied belt clips. Using Velcro to attach the receivers to the plate should work just as well. This is probably the least expensive solution to mount two G2 receivers on any cam (besides tying them to the camera using gaffer tape or Velcro).

For XL-1s owners it's worth noting, however, that the receiver antennas have to point backwards so the cables attached to the receivers can reach the XLR-terminals on the MA-200. I think that with the XL-H1 and the XL-2 it should be possible to have the antennas pointing forward, as the built-in XLR-terminals on these cameras are much closer to the hot shoe than the ones on the MA-200 are. I shall see in myself in a few days...

HTH,

Ron
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Old March 29th, 2006, 10:38 AM   #13
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I just ordered a couple of the G2 kits myself for use on a Sony HDV. I'd prefer to put the weight more in the back of the camera. Has anyone found a mounting plate that would work alone or in conjunction with a base plate/rod system to allow mounting both receivers side-by-side behind the battery?
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Old March 30th, 2006, 01:26 AM   #14
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I can now confirm that the DIY hot shoe adapter plate I built does indeed work with G3 receiver antennas pointing forward on the XL-H1 (using rear XLR terminals).
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