Which microphone is good for documentary (HC1E)? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 10th, 2006, 06:59 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 993
Which microphone is good for documentary (HC1E)?

I am planning to shoot a documentary about my grandmother in one or two months. At this moment, I do not have an external microphone. As the internal microphone of the HC1E records the motor noise, I am looking for a good external solution. I am unexperienced so I am not sure which type of microphone is the best for documentary filmmaking. I have the idea that a gun-zoom microphone might do the job perfectly. There are offerings from Sony, as well as third-party work arounds.

So please help me out with this one so I can have perfect audio.
Floris van Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2006, 12:58 PM   #2
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 158
Go to this link: http://dvestore.com/theatre/index.html and then click on the links for "Shotgun Shootout" and "Indoor Microphones" - and watch both videos.

For the most part, if you're going to shoot indoors, you probably want something similar to the Rode NT3 (a hypercardioid mic) rather than a shotgun mic. Shotguns do well outside and in a studio (anywhere where the is little reflection from walls, cieling, etc.). The Rode NT3 is not a shotgun and it will do much better indoors than any shotgun in a similar price range.
Shawn Redford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2006, 01:26 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 993
Do those microphones work on the HDR-HC1? They look like they are using XLR plugs, which the HDR-HC1 does not have. I reckon there is some converter available, how much do they cost and do they work well?

I am also looking at the Videomic, but it uses the Hot Shoe adapter. Sony camera's have the some like a AI shoe, so is there a way I can still use it?

I really need some hands-on information ont he HDR-HC1 and various microphones.
Floris van Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2006, 02:16 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floris van Eck
Do those microphones work on the HDR-HC1? They look like they are using XLR plugs, which the HDR-HC1 does not have. I reckon there is some converter available, how much do they cost and do they work well?

I am also looking at the Videomic, but it uses the Hot Shoe adapter. Sony camera's have the some like a AI shoe, so is there a way I can still use it?

I really need some hands-on information ont he HDR-HC1 and various microphones.
The Videomic does not use a "Hot" shoe adapter, since it is powered by a single AA battery (i.e., it is meant to be used with a "Cold" shoe mount).

The easiest way to mount the mic is to purchase something like the Bescor cold shoe adapter bracket for $10 which would give you two cold shoe mounting spots and get the microphone away from the camera. Followed by making or buying a custom AIS-to-Cold Shoe adapter. I also think the newest Sony 10-watt wide-beam video light also includes an AIS-to-CS adapter as part of the kit (for $100+).

I'm not sure how "perfect" this Grandmother documentary is going to be, but have you actually tried the HC1's mic? As in set the scene up as you plan to shoot, substitute someone for your Grandmother, and see if the internal mic does a good enough job picking up the audio?

I have not really had a problem with my HC1's internal mic picking up motor noise -- I do have a problem with it picking up things like my breathing behind it, etc., which is why I choose to go with a Videomic for my outdoor shots.
Marc Ries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2006, 06:14 PM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Posts: 105
I too am looking for "better audio" for my HC 1. After much reading and research, here is what I have coming along with various cabling, bracketry and accessories.


Shure VP64A omnidirectional handheld/camera or bracket mount microphone

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Mini Stereo to XLR adapter, non-transformer type

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

Rode Videomic

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Studio 1 Productions BP Pro XLR Adapter

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Not complete as to wants, but hopefully a "good" start.

Jamie
Jamie Hellmich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 02:05 AM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 993
Where exactly do you need the last one for?
Floris van Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 03:13 AM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floris van Eck
Where exactly do you need the last one for?
For use as a mixer for a couple of inputs including "line in" feed ability for input from a mixing board or music/audio source.

Jamie
Jamie Hellmich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 08:50 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 993
Ok, I suppose I won't need it at this moment. But what I am basically looking for at this moment is a good indoor and outdoor mic. So I guess I will have to buy one of those Rode NT3 hypercardioid microphones for indoor shooting, and a gun microphone for outdoor shooting. So does anyone have a good recommendation for a gun/outdoor microphone?

Furthermore, do I need a XLR-3,5mm for the Rode NT3 microphone or does it have one in the standard configuration? Thanks again.
Floris van Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 11:07 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floris van Eck
Ok, I suppose I won't need it at this moment. But what I am basically looking for at this moment is a good indoor and outdoor mic. So I guess I will have to buy one of those Rode NT3 hypercardioid microphones for indoor shooting, and a gun microphone for outdoor shooting. So does anyone have a good recommendation for a gun/outdoor microphone?

Furthermore, do I need a XLR-3,5mm for the Rode NT3 microphone or does it have one in the standard configuration? Thanks again.
Yes you'll need an XLR-3.5mm for the NT3. It has an XLR connection at it's base and so you'll need the converter to plug it into the HC1. This mic is primarily intended to be handheld, so if you're going to mount it on the camera, you'll need a shockmount - I suggest Rode's own range. SM3 or SM5.
You could use a shotgun indoors or the NT3 outdoors - it's just a matter of seeing what's acceptable to you. It'll be MUCH better audio than i think you'll get with the HC1's internal mics.

To get an idea of how much difference you can hear when shooting someone a few feet away, with the camera's built-in mics, versus an external mic positioned close to the speaker (NT3 in this case), see this clip :
http://dvcreators.net/products/indoormic_movieframe.htm

The guy in the above clip is Guy Cochran who is on this board. Check out the recent thread in 'Now Hear this' about mic shootouts - he's posted in that thread recently.
rgds
Stu Holmes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 03:16 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 508
I use the Rode NTG-1 (or NTG-2 if you want, same mic, just one has battery power option also) as my outdoor shotgun mic. Supposedly or argubly the best shotgun mic under $500. If you have a bit more than $500, go with the Audio Technica AT4073A. After that, maybe the Sennheiser MKH-416 (over $1,000), then after that look into Sanken and Schoeps, which can be more than $1,500 each.

For indoors, I use the Sennheiser ME64, a cardioid, with K6 power module. Debating if I need to get a K6 Red dot to reduce sensitivity. My ears are pretty untrained, so can someone tell me how to tell if my mic is too hot/too sensitive? Is it too hot on my Sony HVR-A1U camera? How can I tell? How do I tell for other cameras too?

I'm considering the Rode NT-3 hypercardioid, but I wonder if it makes much of a noticeable difference between the Sennheiser ME64? Anyone share their experiences or have sound comparison clips?

Last question: what kind of mic is a shotgun mic? Is it or is it not a hypercardioid, because I've read reports that say shotguns are hypercardioid and reports that say shotguns are not hypercardioids and that shotguns have a tighter pattern than hypercardioids?
Alex Thames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2006, 08:49 AM   #11
New Boot
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 13
It's a bit pricy, but what about a ECM-HW1 Wireless Microphone? Bluetooth, up to 30m.
Steven Meserve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2006, 11:22 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Thames
I use the Rode NTG-1 (or NTG-2 if you want, same mic, just one has battery power option also) as my outdoor shotgun mic. Supposedly or argubly the best shotgun mic under $500. If you have a bit more than $500, go with the Audio Technica AT4073A. After that, maybe the Sennheiser MKH-416 (over $1,000), then after that look into Sanken and Schoeps, which can be more than $1,500 each.

For indoors, I use the Sennheiser ME64, a cardioid, with K6 power module. Debating if I need to get a K6 Red dot to reduce sensitivity. My ears are pretty untrained, so can someone tell me how to tell if my mic is too hot/too sensitive? Is it too hot on my Sony HVR-A1U camera? How can I tell? How do I tell for other cameras too?

I'm considering the Rode NT-3 hypercardioid, but I wonder if it makes much of a noticeable difference between the Sennheiser ME64? Anyone share their experiences or have sound comparison clips?

Last question: what kind of mic is a shotgun mic? Is it or is it not a hypercardioid, because I've read reports that say shotguns are hypercardioid and reports that say shotguns are not hypercardioids and that shotguns have a tighter pattern than hypercardioids?
Hang on - you've got two relatively expensive mics, one a shotgun and one a cardioid, and you're asking what kind of mic a shotgun mic is ?!?!

General sound polar patterns tend to go something like this:
Omni-directional (picks up sound, more or less, from every direction)
Cardioid (more biased towards the front, and some from the rear)
Hypercardioid (more extreme than the cardioid)
Shotgun (again, tighter pattern than the hyper)
Laser (very narrow pickup)

but i don't think there's any specific 'rules' as to when a cardioid becomes a hyper becomes a shotgun. Others on this board are far more knowledgeable about this sort of thing so they may jump in here to give a better description than the basic one above.
Or alternatively do a search in the 'Now Hear This' forum for some of these terms and there should be a load of info there.
Stu Holmes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2006, 08:45 PM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 508
Well, yes, I do have "relatively expensive" mics, but I bought those based on the recommendations from this board. Before I bought the mic under the impression that the Rode NTG-1 was a shotgun and the Senn. ME64 was a cardioid, but then I started reading more and got confused with people mixing up terms or using them in ways I didn't understand. For awhile, I started to get confused if a shotgun was a hypercardioid because previously I had thought a shotgun was not a h.c. (and that a shotgun had a tighter pattern than a h.c.). Never heard of a laser mic.

So it's not that I haven't done my research or that I didn't know (apparently I knew correctly before), it's that I got confused from reading more, not necessarily just from this board.
Alex Thames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2006, 06:20 AM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 993
I have one more question about the Rode shockmount. How do I attach it to my HDR-HC1? I guess it uses a Hot-Shoe mount, but the Sony camera's have the AI shoe. Do I need a converter or something to mount it?
Floris van Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2006, 10:35 AM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Thames
So it's not that I haven't done my research or that I didn't know (apparently I knew correctly before), it's that I got confused from reading more, not necessarily just from this board.
Ah ok, got it now. No worries!
Interested in your practical opinions about the differences in sound between your NTG1 and ME64. I think these two mics complement each other quite well and will cover most situations (bar of course when only a lav will do).
Stu Holmes is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:32 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network