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using it indoors because it's a shotgun and shotguns sound hollow indoors most of the time. The only mic that comes to mind that fits "M-S plus battery" is the Shure VP-88. They're $690 new. There's a used one on ebay right now for $500 "buy it now". The description on ebay says it only runs on phantom but I believe that's a mistake; I think they all run on a battery, also. http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/vp88.asp |
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I am using the built-in matrixing to get a L-R signal. I find that for interviews the L-R N pattern works well, but I need to turn OFF mic attenuation on my HVR-A1. For outdoor ambience the L-R W pattern is good. The stereo separation is very good, strikingly "wide". I am not using low cut. I find that doing so makes the sound seem a bit empty. Maybe use it only for interviews. It's a "hot" mike, but not so hot that you need to pad it all the time. |
Gian, are you using that 835 indoors or outdoors?
If indoors, what type of room(s) and how's the sound? The only other mic Ray might want to look at is the Sony ECM-MS957 ($200). I don't know anything about it. Maybe someone else here has tried it. http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...ctSKU=ECMMS957 |
Verdict on the Sony ECM-MS957??
Well,.. this is getting interesting!
Now I've shifted my attention away from the X-Y stereo Rode NT4 to either a M-S stereo mic: either the $500 Shure VP-88 (it does take a battery or can be phantom powered) or the $200 Sony ECM-MS957. The Sony takes a single AA battery and has an XLR connector. I could use the AT835ST with my Beachtek to provide phantom power but really prefer a mic with its own battery so I can swap mics among my cameras and Minidisc players. The Sony is much cheaper. Does its performance compare favorably to the SURE VP-88? Or is the SURE a far superior mic that I should get at any cost? Again, I have to take into consideration the facts: The performances I want to record and people I want to interview are for archival research. I am recording their stories and experiences of an art form that will likely fade into history. I hope to get good audio, but I must take into account overall value for the dollars spent. I'll look to the the experienced members out there for advice once again... |
I haven't used the Shure or the Sony but one
difference I might guess there to be is that the Shure will give you the option to work in post to set the width of the stereo image by doing the decoding yourself, so as to be able to bring out the center channel more if you'd like, or to drop it back and have a wider stereo image, blending in the center more if it's overpowering. The Sony might not give this option as it could be all decoded within the mic and the mix of the M and S deterimined by the mic, so that if the center is overpowering the sides you are stuck with it. I made a recording with the NT4 of a small choir but I could only get back so far from them and the mic picked up all the center and near singers more than the side singers. If I had recorded it M-S I could have dropped down the center M channel to blend it better, atleast this is the way I understand how M-S works. For this reason, I personally would be looking for an M-S mic that would allow me to decode the signal myself, and adjust it to my liking in post. You may decide that the price difference is not worth having this capability. I'd like to hear from anyone here who has used the Sony. |
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/Roger |
I'm certain Sanken would have a mic to fill the need for a stereo shotgun although none of their kit is exactly 'cheap'. They work very well indoors as well.
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By the way, Rycote makes a Windjammer for the Shure VP-88, you'll want to have one of those (or the equivalent) in your kit to go with it. |
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If Rycote fails, try Reinhardt :
http://www.reinhardt-film.com/products.php they make a lot of windshield for all kinds of unlilkely mics. They'll be able to make one up for the Sony i'm sure. They even say to email them with your request : info@reinhardt-film.com hope this helps |
Sony ECM-MS957 or Rode NT4
Thanks everyone for the feedback
Everyone posted a lot of good info. Thanks! I check out prices an M-S stereo AT835ST will cost about $600 and so will the SURE VP88. That's over my budget! So as far as M-S mics go, the only one I can afford is the Sony ECM-MS957 It seems like I can only afford X-Y stereo. So I'll have to choose between the AT825 stereo or the Rode NT4. Or I can go with the cheap Sony ECM-MS957 M-S mic. Any recommendations? Rodger had asked which Beachtek I am using. I will be using DXA-8 that supplies phantom power. It will be used either on the mindisc equip or with my video camera. I will also use DXA-2 on the remaining equipment. There is a company advertising on Ebay that can make furry covers for any mic. Is there any difference in these furry covers? I mean, does the quality or performance differ? |
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Whatever you get, you should check out this free software: http://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/
It is an M-S to L-R encoder/decoder in a VST plugin. So you can run it in Vegas Video, for example, and any other editing software that accepts VST. It decodes M-S to L-R, allowing you to control spatialization, and encodes L-R to M-S (the other way round). It also has an "inline" mode, which simulates putting two instances of the plugin in sequence, hence allowing you to adjust mid-side values even if your source is L-R stereo. It is very cool! |
Nice tip on the MSED software.
Here's what I'm thinking of doing on my next production: I'd like to record a mono shotgun and a M-S pair simultaneously. The shotgun is for the talent, and I'd stomp on it with noise reduction. I'd add back in some ambience from the M-S pair. The idea is that the shotgun with noise reduction and EQ will get me the cleanest dialog. I only need mono, as I'd keep it in the center. With a nice clean signal, I can ride the levels syllable by syllable, if needed. The M-S is for the ambient noise tracks. I'd keep it away from the talent. I'd EQ out the primary dialog frequencies to dampen the dialog, and phase align it with the shotgun as best I could. If I still get phase problem with the dialog, I'd just loop some quiet parts behind the dialog with a wide stereo spread. If I need the ambience to be sync'd with the video, I'd just mix it down low enough that the phase problems aren't too bad. This technique should give a clean dialog track, a natural, wide stereo ambience without the hollowness of a shotgun, and the ability to mix down to mono without phase issues. I'm working theoretically on this. Does anybody have any practical experience with this technique? -Jon Fairhurst http://PoorlyProjectedPictures.com |
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