Neumann Mic? at DVinfo.net

Phillip Palacios · January 19th, 2007, 12:19 PM

I am doing some ambient nature sounds soon,
would this mic be a good choice:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Or should I look for a stereo mic? such as this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...s=&ci=8543&ac=

Thanks,
Phil

Patrick Bower · January 19th, 2007, 01:48 PM

You are comparing one $720 mono microphone to two $220 mono microphones.

I don't know the Neumann, but I have the Rode NT4. I used it for recording acoustic instruments. While it is OK, the instruments just don't sound real. Once I hired some Schoeps microphones, I could not go back to the Rode, and I bought the Schoeps. The Schoeps is superb, but very expensive, and, I understand susceptible to damp, so unsuitable for your application. Sennheiser MKH microphones would be an alternative at that price.

I would guess the Neumann is somewhere in between the Rode and Schoeps or Sennheiser for sound quality, as reflected in its price. There is a discussion about the Neumann and the Sennheiser here http://www.tiny.cc/zebGV

Do you really need/want stereo?

Patrick

Phillip Palacios · January 19th, 2007, 02:00 PM

Well I guess part of the question is if I truely need stereo for scenic shots?

as for the sennheiser would you suggest the MKH416? I know it is a classic "pro mic," but I have been under the impression that cardioid(sp?) mic is what I would want for nature/ambient sound.

what other mics would you suggest?

Thanks,
Phil

Allan Black · January 19th, 2007, 04:32 PM

Maybe look at the Rode Stereo Videomic, a very sweet sound. It's a supercardioid with a minijack out. If you get a HI-MD mindisc recorder, 44.1 stereo, it'll be the perfect combination for nature sounds.

The discs are very cheap, you can set it up on a boom and run it for an hour nonstop. Great economical combination for location sounds.

Another option is a parabolic mic set-up for distance work, very expensive though.

Peter Rhalter · January 19th, 2007, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Palacios

Well I guess part of the question is if I truely need stereo for scenic shots?

as for the sennheiser would you suggest the MKH416? I know it is a classic "pro mic," but I have been under the impression that cardioid(sp?) mic is what I would want for nature/ambient sound.

what other mics would you suggest?

Thanks,
Phil

It is important to remember that all these mics are designed primarily for either music or dialog applications. A great mic for one purpose, like instruments or spoken word, may be a mediocre mic for another. For ambient recording you will want to combine the quietest mics with a quality preamp/mixer.

The Sennheiser MKH series of mics are the quietest small diaphragm mics that I know of. They are also fairly rugged for field work. Take a look at the MKH 20 omni or MKH 40 cardioid.

Second, a quality preamp, or mixer, like the Sound Devices series, will make any microphone sound much better than the camera's built-in preamp.

How are you going to use your recordings? Are they going to be in the background, mixed with voices or music, or will they have to stand alone? If they are in the background, no one may notice the difference between mono and stereo.

Best wishes,
Peter
______________________
http://www.parkfilms.com

Patrick Bower · January 20th, 2007, 03:18 AM

Shotgun mikes reduce off axis sounds that are high frequency. This means that you selectively emphasise a sound that is straight ahead. The downside is that the ambient sound will be unnatural, as it will be selectively missing the high frequencies. That's why, on the whole, shotgun mikes are not used for music. Cardioid would be better.

Even a cheap recorder, like the zoom h4 will give you far better sound than a camera, and supply 48v phantom for the external microphone. It will also allow you to record in 24bit, which gives you a much better dynamic range. It's easy to mix the additional sound track with the video on any NLE. I use Vegas.

It's worth remembering that, although a good microphone may cost a lot, you will go on using it forever. Unlike a video camera where, to keep up with the latest technology, you need to upgrade at least every 5 years.

Patrick

Martin Saxer · February 28th, 2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Palacios

I am doing some ambient nature sounds soon,
would this mic be a good choice:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation
Phil

If you haven't chosen yet: I worked with the Neumann KM 184 and KM 185 quite a lot. In my view, they are top microphones and play in the same league as Schoeps and the Sennheiser MKHs. The KM 185 (which I ended up using much more then the 184) delivers a very natural sound, in my ears a little warmer compared to the Schoeps MK41. But oppinions vary on this. Some say that Schoeps sounds more neutral in the end and some do not like the "Neumann sound". I like it a lot.

Martin

Marco Leavitt · February 28th, 2007, 04:18 PM

Lots of mics to choose from. I'd be looking for an omni or cardiod of some sort. Maybe other people disagree, but I don't think you need a $700 mic for recording ambient sounds. You will need wind protection though, so factor that in.

Ty Ford · March 1st, 2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Palacios

I am doing some ambient nature sounds soon,
would this mic be a good choice:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Or should I look for a stereo mic? such as this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...s=&ci=8543&ac=

Thanks,
Phil

Hi Phil,

Nah, try an Audio technica 835 ST. It a stereo OR a shotgun mic.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Phillip Palacios · March 1st, 2007, 08:27 PM

I ended up trying a neumann, an at 4041(?), and a shure sm81. I ended up buying the shure, the nueman was great, but for the money, the sure sounded pretty close, not as sensitive to small sounds, but it has a "natural" sound to it (to my untrained ears). the AT sounded almost too bright.

thanks for all the input! I do hope tto get a pair of nuemann's *someday* but for this project, the shure is the beast of burden.

Phil

January 19th, 2007, 12:19 PM	#1
Phillip Palacios Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 233	Neumann Mic? I am doing some ambient nature sounds soon, would this mic be a good choice: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation Or should I look for a stereo mic? such as this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...s=&ci=8543&ac= Thanks, Phil

January 19th, 2007, 02:00 PM	#3
Phillip Palacios Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 233	Stereo vs Mono Well I guess part of the question is if I truely need stereo for scenic shots? as for the sennheiser would you suggest the MKH416? I know it is a classic "pro mic," but I have been under the impression that cardioid(sp?) mic is what I would want for nature/ambient sound. what other mics would you suggest? Thanks, Phil

March 1st, 2007, 08:27 PM	#10
Phillip Palacios Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 233	I ended up trying a neumann, an at 4041(?), and a shure sm81. I ended up buying the shure, the nueman was great, but for the money, the sure sounded pretty close, not as sensitive to small sounds, but it has a "natural" sound to it (to my untrained ears). the AT sounded almost too bright. thanks for all the input! I do hope tto get a pair of nuemann's someday but for this project, the shure is the beast of burden. Phil __________________ always learning www.phillippalacios.com

January 19th, 2007, 01:48 PM	#2
Patrick Bower Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 126	You are comparing one $720 mono microphone to two $220 mono microphones. I don't know the Neumann, but I have the Rode NT4. I used it for recording acoustic instruments. While it is OK, the instruments just don't sound real. Once I hired some Schoeps microphones, I could not go back to the Rode, and I bought the Schoeps. The Schoeps is superb, but very expensive, and, I understand susceptible to damp, so unsuitable for your application. Sennheiser MKH microphones would be an alternative at that price. I would guess the Neumann is somewhere in between the Rode and Schoeps or Sennheiser for sound quality, as reflected in its price. There is a discussion about the Neumann and the Sennheiser here http://www.tiny.cc/zebGV Do you really need/want stereo? Patrick

January 19th, 2007, 04:32 PM	#4
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,887	Maybe look at the Rode Stereo Videomic, a very sweet sound. It's a supercardioid with a minijack out. If you get a HI-MD mindisc recorder, 44.1 stereo, it'll be the perfect combination for nature sounds. The discs are very cheap, you can set it up on a boom and run it for an hour nonstop. Great economical combination for location sounds. Another option is a parabolic mic set-up for distance work, very expensive though.

January 20th, 2007, 03:18 AM	#6
Patrick Bower Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 126	Shotgun mikes reduce off axis sounds that are high frequency. This means that you selectively emphasise a sound that is straight ahead. The downside is that the ambient sound will be unnatural, as it will be selectively missing the high frequencies. That's why, on the whole, shotgun mikes are not used for music. Cardioid would be better. Even a cheap recorder, like the zoom h4 will give you far better sound than a camera, and supply 48v phantom for the external microphone. It will also allow you to record in 24bit, which gives you a much better dynamic range. It's easy to mix the additional sound track with the video on any NLE. I use Vegas. It's worth remembering that, although a good microphone may cost a lot, you will go on using it forever. Unlike a video camera where, to keep up with the latest technology, you need to upgrade at least every 5 years. Patrick

February 28th, 2007, 04:18 PM	#8
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Lots of mics to choose from. I'd be looking for an omni or cardiod of some sort. Maybe other people disagree, but I don't think you need a $700 mic for recording ambient sounds. You will need wind protection though, so factor that in.