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Old February 1st, 2007, 12:04 PM   #1
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Wireless mic advice NADY UHF

I'm looking for a wireless system.
My buget is $200 (...no Sens stuff yet).

I have a GS lav so I don't care if the UHF system's lav is not that good.
I currentley use the Giant Squid(GS) lav and an I River 895. The GS is awesome and works quite well (it has the custom L plug for the Iriver) and I record at 320kbps in mono. I convert to stereo in my sound app.

I record speeches and presentations.

I was looking at Nady UHF

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nady-UHF-3-LT-UH...QQcmdZViewItem

I know that the Nady VHF is not so good but was wondering if anyone has used this Nady UHF.

I was also looking at a GVD G-288:

http://cgi.ebay.com/UHF-Wireless-Cor...QQcmdZViewItem

They claim 16+16 /96 Channel Diversity system.

Let me know if anyone has used these 2 or if you would recommned something else.


Thanks.
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Old February 1st, 2007, 12:21 PM   #2
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I've not used the products you're asking about, but I have used Samson's stuff. If you're interested, read this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=85315

I see your budget is like mine...small. However, you can sometimes find the Samson systems used, for $200 or less.

Good luck!

Mark

Geez, I feel like a Samson sales rep. Hmm, I wonder if they'd give me a commission? :-)
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Old February 1st, 2007, 01:16 PM   #3
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I have the Samson Mciro 32 system, and it has been very reliable for me.
My only complaint about Samson wireless systems is that they aren't very sturdy, especially the antena or doors. But they do work well.

I just saw this one oneline.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Samson-UHF-Micro...QQcmdZViewItem
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 04:45 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Amira
I'm looking for a wireless system.
My buget is $200 (...no Sens stuff yet).
Thanks.
Hi Alex, from The Towson area. I know you said you have a $200 budget, but....There's a saying, "I can't afford to buy cheap."

If you have any desire to be a professional videographer, you need to start thinking about what things cost in a diffferent way. If you are a casual camera owner then please don't read any further. ----------- The best wireless rigs cost about $3,000.00 - $4,000.00. They are worth it. At this point the Sennehiser G2 is about as low as any professional videographers go, and those kits are usually not their primary kits.

BTW, I'll probably be doing another Audio Bootcamp here at my studio in Baltimore in March or April. It'll be a 4 hour hands-on, ears-on session with lots of Q&A and we'll be comparing equipment.

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS I told you NOT to read any further!!! :)
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 07:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford
Hi Alex, from The Towson area. I know you said you have a $200 budget, but....There's a saying, "I can't afford to buy cheap."

If you have any desire to be a professional videographer, you need to start thinking about what things cost in a diffferent way. If you are a casual camera owner then please don't read any further. ----------- The best wireless rigs cost about $3,000.00 - $4,000.00. They are worth it. At this point the Sennehiser G2 is about as low as any professional videographers go, and those kits are usually not their primary kits.

BTW, I'll probably be doing another Audio Bootcamp here at my studio in Baltimore in March or April. It'll be a 4 hour hands-on, ears-on session with lots of Q&A and we'll be comparing equipment.

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS I told you NOT to read any further!!! :)
The G2 is without a doubt a very nice system. One could not ask for a better system for the money.

I'm of a different opinion as far as the G2 being as low as you can go on an entry level professional system. Mark Holland and many others have used the Samson Airline Micro and Samson Micro 32 system with great success. The Airline is $269 at B&H.

I consider myself a professional. My current audio setup may not be as fancy as others or wireless but it will blow away stuff that costs a lot more.
Giant Squid lav for dialogue and speeches clipped on a person recording at 320kbps with adjusted recording volume matched so it does not generate any hiss produces broadcast quality audio. I don't want to brag but I've listened to my recordings I've made of speeches and I compared them with so commercial audio CDs which contained speeches and mine were at the same level and sometimes better than some. Couple with audio sync software and the results are quite impressive.

I'm actually talking to Darren from Giant Squid Audio Labs to work on a custom hyper cardioid powered solution for my audio setup.

http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com...dbattery1.html

Plenty of samples on that page of what GS can do.

I moved from MD (I guess I need to update that info:) ). Otherwise I'd be interested to see your Audio Boot Camp
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 08:18 AM   #6
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Alex, I have been using Darren's mics as well and ahve to agree about the quality of them. Excellent pickup and very sensative.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 08:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Amira
The G2 is without a doubt a very nice system. One could not ask for a better system for the money.

I'm of a different opinion as far as the G2 being as low as you can go on an entry level professional system. Mark Holland and many others have used the Samson Airline Micro and Samson Micro 32 system with great success. The Airline is $269 at B&H.

...
With all due respect, Alex, sound pros like Ty and others who are actively working in the music recording, feature film, broadcasting, advertising, etc, industries usually own their own kits paid for out of their own pockets with investments often running well into the high 4 or even 5 figures. They're also in business to earn a living. Profitability hinges on maximizing revenue while minimizing expense - the working pro isn't so much enamored to the brand name on the gear as he is to the economic bottom line and the simple arithmetic is the less money you have to invest in the equipment, the more money you'll have left in your pocket to feed your family and pay the mortgage. If a $250 wireless package could be used to equal effect as a $3000 Lectro or a $25 Squid mic sounded just as clean and clear as a $1500 Schoeps or a $4000 Neumann, don't you think that's what you'd see on the location sets, soundtages, and network studios? Yes, a skilled operator working under ideal conditions can get acceptable results with bargain gear, at least down to a point below which it simply doesn't work. But when your continued employability hinges on your reputation for bringing home perfect results under impossible conditions 100% of the time, it's worth the cost to remove from the picture any uncertainty contributed by the risk of marginal equipment. That $3000 difference in price between a Lectro and the bargain gear vanishes to pocket change if dropouts and susceptibility to interference in the cheaper setup causes the loss of a day of shooting on a set that's costing $100,000 a day or unusable footage of an unrepeatable special event that took you and your crew halfway around to world to capture.

Years ago I worked for a household-name specialty foods retailer who shall remain nameless. The secret to their success during their heyday was an all-prevasive corporate philosophy that said "Good Enough Never Is!" When they began to accept compromise of that principle was when the company began its decline.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 09:04 AM   #8
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Steve,

True in Ontario,in Baltimore and many other places. You folks must think pro audio people like me must be absolutley crazy trust fund babies to spend all that money on the gear we buy.

Alex,

I'm not trying to sound condescending here, but there is a consensus of professionals about what audio gear to use. It's not just me squawking on this forum. We've spent enough time with each other to know what works. It's not Samson, it's not Behringer, it's not Airline. (Does Montgomery Ward still have that brand?)

It's Sennheiser G2 in a pinch, and then you go upstairs.

Somebody recently gave me a quote, "I can't afford to buy cheap."

You don't want to listen to what I have to say? I've been around too long to care. Just please don't dis equipment as just as good as if you haven't heard it.

You can't hear the difference? Fine. We can. So it matters to us.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 09:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford
Steve,

True in Ontario,in Baltimore and many other places. You folks must think pro audio people like me must be absolutley crazy trust fund babies to spend all that money on the gear we buy.

...
Ty Ford
I don't think its crazy, I think it's smart like a fox! :) You are exactly on target with that quote saying "I can't afford to buy cheap" - my version of that is that cheap is always the most expensive in the long run. And that holds true both for currently working pros or people who aspire to be. I have never purchased a single piece of audio or photographic gear in my life where a bargain didn't end up costing me more total out-of-pocket money than I'd have spent had I gone with the right gear from the very start.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 09:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House
With all due respect, Alex, sound pros like Ty and others who are actively working in the music recording, feature film, broadcasting, advertising, etc, industries usually own their own kits paid for out of their own pockets with investments often running well into the high 4 or even 5 figures. They're also in business to earn a living. Profitability hinges on maximizing revenue while minimizing expense - the working pro isn't so much enamored to the brand name on the gear as he is to the economic bottom line and the simple arithmetic is the less money you have to invest in the equipment, the more money you'll have left in your pocket to feed your family and pay the mortgage. If a $250 wireless package could be used to equal effect as a $3000 Lectro or a $25 Squid mic sounded just as clean and clear as a $1500 Schoeps or a $4000 Neumann, don't you think that's what you'd see on the location sets, soundtages, and network studios? Yes, a skilled operator working under ideal conditions can get acceptable results with bargain gear, at least down to a point below which it simply doesn't work. But when your continued employability hinges on your reputation for bringing home perfect results under impossible conditions 100% of the time, it's worth the cost to remove from the picture any uncertainty contributed by the risk of marginal equipment. That $3000 difference in price between a Lectro and the bargain gear vanishes to pocket change if dropouts and susceptibility to interference in the cheaper setup causes the loss of a day of shooting on a set that's costing $100,000 a day or unusable footage of an unrepeatable special event that took you and your crew halfway around to world to capture.

Years ago I worked for a household-name specialty foods retailer who shall remain nameless. The secret to their success during their heyday was an all-prevasive corporate philosophy that said "Good Enough Never Is!" When they began to accept compromise of that principle was when the company began its decline.

I respect your opinion and you definitely know a lot about audio.

I try to compare apples to apples.

I also mentioned I was a professional. I did not say I was a broadcaster or feature film and music producer. There are different levels and professional can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. I won't go into details but I've seen people who consider themselves professionals and they just use the onboard camcorder mic.

I never said my GS lav could be compared with a Lectro or Neumann but it is a very good system. Michael Liebergot posted above and he has had very good experiences (as have the thousands of people who have used GS) with GS lavs. I also stand by my statement that I have produced studio quality audio that rivals some audio CDs I've heard (speech).

If you get a chance go to the GS Labs site and listen to the audio samples people have recorded from all kind of environments including concerts and see how amazing they sound. www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com

My whole point was that I did not believe the Sen G2 was the entry level for audio when Samson Airline Micro is $276 and there are members on this board who are using this with great results.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 09:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford
Steve,

True in Ontario,in Baltimore and many other places. You folks must think pro audio people like me must be absolutley crazy trust fund babies to spend all that money on the gear we buy.

Alex,

I'm not trying to sound condescending here, but there is a consensus of professionals about what audio gear to use. It's not just me squawking on this forum. We've spent enough time with each other to know what works. It's not Samson, it's not Behringer, it's not Airline. (Does Montgomery Ward still have that brand?)

It's Sennheiser G2 in a pinch, and then you go upstairs.

Somebody recently gave me a quote, "I can't afford to buy cheap."

You don't want to listen to what I have to say? I've been around too long to care. Just please don't dis equipment as just as good as if you haven't heard it.

You can't hear the difference? Fine. We can. So it matters to us.

Regards,

Ty Ford
I never said anything bad about G2. I actually praised it. My point was that there was something bellow it entry level wise. Maybe not as good as G2 but still good. Since there are people on these boards that have used Samson Airline (Airline is a line from Samson) with good results it makes me think that I might be right. The G2 is awesome and I belive Samson has something that may be right bellow it in quality for $269.

Also show of virtual hands how many have actually listened to the GS Labs samples?

You may be right about not hearing the difference. Right now I can't hear the difference from anything since I don't own a G2 or anything. So I have to go on opinions of people who have used these systems.

My question was simple: Is there something bellow G2? Since I've seen people on these boards using Samson I thed to belive that it is true (going on opinion). Is Samson as goog as Sens. From what I can figure out probably not. Is Samson good quality. Based on what I read yes it is.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 10:26 AM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Amira
My question was simple: Is there something bellow G2? Since I've seen people on these boards using Samson I thed to belive that it is true (going on opinion). Is Samson as goog as Sens. From what I can figure out probably not. Is Samson good quality. Based on what I read yes it is.
Exactly, Alex, and sometimes this sort of question gets lost in the shuffle. To the contrary of all the "you must buy high end gear to work in this business..." you'll often find very cheap Audio Technica Pro88W wireless systems on major Hollywood shoots. They're used for two reasons;
~They sound great, due to the lacking of a compander.
~They're very cheap, and if they're sat on, damaged in an action scene, whatever, they're easily replaced.

I was introduced to these during the filming of "Half Past Dead" with Steven Seagal, and was very surprised. I've seen them on several sets since. I've now used them on several very close in, indoor and outdoor shoots. AT claims a range of 100 feet, I've never taxed that, usually using them at a max of 20 feet. With a good mic, they sound better than systems costing 20 times as much. But I surely wouldn't use them for most of my work. We used a G2 and U100 system for aerial recording this past week, and the G2 failed in all instances, whereas the U100 did great with a span of over 7000 feet. More on that later.

That said, better gear is better. But some folks really get tied up in the morass of measurebating, and it seems like this is becoming more common of late. For example, I've used the AT 4053 on more than one Emmy recipient project, and when you look at guys like Fred Ginsburg, who used the same mic on very large productions, I'd say I'm in pretty good company. Yet in this forum, you'll read words from people suggesting you can't use this particular mic in a pro situation.

What's ironic is that we don't often see these sorts of ridiculous discussions in the camcorder side of our industry. Most folks seem to grasp that if you have a sub 10K budget to spend, you'll accept certain compromises when shooting a 1/3 chip cam vs a 2/3 chip cam. Yet folks create media for broadcast every day using 1/3 chip cams. They're not as good, not as creatively enabled, and not as expensive, but they do the job. Same can be said for much of the audio gear that is dismissed offhandedly in this forum. Some folks suggest you can't produce great audio if you don't have Sanken, Neumann, Studio Devices, etc. That is simply bogus. Those are all great tools, and it's great to aspire to own them. But if the cost of admission is too high but you want to play anyway, get what you can afford and learn to use it to the best of the ability the gear you buy allows. Learning to get great sound with less than stellar gear will actually help you in the long run anyway, because it forces you to learn. It's how I learned. I started with a crappy 8 channel BiAmp board and Peavey CS800's 27 years ago, and eventually grew into a Yamaha PM2000 48, to a Digi Venue and Crown.

There is nothing wrong with owning gear commensurate with the gigs you're doing. If you're aspiring to rise to the top, you'll eventually need top gear, but top gear in no way is a replacement nor adjustment for weak knowledge and skill. Get the skill and knowledge first, and this will determine when you're ready for high performance gear (or not).
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 11:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Amira
My question was simple: Is there something bellow G2? Since I've seen people on these boards using Samson I tried to believe that it is true (going on opinion). Is Samson as goog as Sens. From what I can figure out probably not. Is Samson good quality. Based on what I read yes it is.
Alex, I have to agree that Samson is a step below Sennheiser in the audio dept.
Their sound quality is good, but I have to say that their build quality is poor and cheap, hense the price difference.
Senns, Lectronics and such have a metal build construction compared to plastic for Samson. This is big in my mind, as in the field, we have to worry about signal noise and strength, as well as durability. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't trust a Samson mic on someone falling out of a plane (DSE).
Now with that being said, I do own the Samson Micro 32 and it has been reliable for me, but my next purchase will be either a G2 or Lectronics (If I can get enough coin) system.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 02:46 PM   #14
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I stand by my posts.

Granted, there are better mics out there, but for me and my customers, the Samson mics work just fine for now.

I'm sorry if I stirred up an argument, it was unintended!

Mark

And thanks Douglas, you're exactly right! ...

"There is nothing wrong with owning gear commensurate with the gigs you're doing. If you're aspiring to rise to the top, you'll eventually need top gear, but top gear in no way is a replacement nor adjustment for weak knowledge and skill. Get the skill and knowledge first, and this will determine when you're ready for high performance gear (or not)."
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 03:35 PM   #15
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I love your slap and tickle Doug. :)

Ty
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