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Old November 15th, 2009, 09:10 AM   #46
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If you publish to the web I take it that means you need additional licensing if your hit counter goes above 10,000?

Take a close look at that license part you quoted. It's referring to making physical copies of a hardware distribution medium such as CD or DVD. Nowhere does it mention web posting or distribution by download at all. A license is something that says what you can do. If it's not explicitly permitted, it's prohibited. Unless there's a specific phrase somewhere else in the license that contradicts, I would interpret it to mean that any form of web publication is not licensed and thus prohibited. You could use the song in a DVD you're making of a wedding for the bride and groom and you could sell them ten copies for them to give to familiy and friends but you could NOT post the video on YouTube (according to what you posted - I haven't read the Jamendo license and have no idea what else it might say).
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Old November 15th, 2009, 03:12 PM   #47
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Ouch, have to read these licenses more carefully. Thanks Steve.

I wish these were easier to interpret, take the Cinescore Theme Pack EULA

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...aries/eula.asp
Quote:
1. GRANT OF LICENSE. Sony Creative Software, as Licensor, grants to you, the Licensee, a limited, nonexclusive right to use the Content Offering on a single computer for your individual use. You are free to use the Content Offering in your own original compositions without restriction. Neither the Content Offering nor any portion thereof may be resold or redistributed as loops, music beds, clips, visuals and/or graphic images except as otherwise integrated into your own works
Seems to say I can use the Theme Pack on one computer (I get one copy). But I can integrate it into my video.

... a few aspirins later ...

Quote:
4. RESTRICTIONS ON USE. You may not: (a) use the Content Offering on more than one computer at a time without purchasing additional licenses, (b) distribute, share, sublicense, lend, lease or otherwise make the Content Offering available to any third party (on the Internet, an information network or tangible media, by broadcast or in any other manner), (c) modify, adapt, create derivative works from or translate any part of the Content Offering (other than as integrated by you into your work in accordance with this EULA), (d) reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the Content Offering or otherwise attempt to obtain its source code, (e) remove or alter any copyright, trademark or other proprietary notice contained in the Content Offering or (f) use the Content Offering in any manner not set forth in this EULA or in the Content Offering's documentation.
(b) says I can't lend out the Cinescore theme itself on any media ... which appears counter to the point if I take it literally as it doesn't distinguish between the Theme Pack and the generated work when it back tracks in (c) . Ah, the intricacies of legalese. It's got me in a tangle, hire a lawyer to interpret what it says or bang out my own tunes with some twigs and empty cans.
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Last edited by Mike Dulay; November 15th, 2009 at 03:53 PM.
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Old November 15th, 2009, 06:37 PM   #48
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Mike, you almost seem to be TRYING to confuse yourself here.

Let's start with Digital Juice. Here is the guts of their license on this issue:

StackTraxx Uses Allowed:

You may adapt, synchronize, reproduce and distribute the Content only in conjunction with and as an integral part of multimedia works and/or multiform audio presentations as created, adapted, edited or synchronized by our customers. This includes but is not limited to distribution of your non-profit or for-profit audio-visual works distributed over web, broadcast, film, DVD, radio, public presentations, and personal or private uses.

Bottom line, use it as a soundtrack, anywhere anyhow other than stand alone. Try and package their "content" however for resale as another product designed for film-makers to use as background music (e.g. using their product as your own "stand alone" product, however, is a no no - and understandably so.) That is what these licenses are protecting, the product, not your resultant use in your own film... it is JUST THAT SIMPLE.

And SONY Cinescore (sorry about the earlier gaffe calling it Cineform), even easier:

You are free to use the Content Offering in your own original compositions without restriction.

Cinescore's EULA (end user license agreement) incidentally, is for ALL SONY software audio/video products.

What many seem to fail to grasp is the disinction between "content" (the product) and a creative work done using the product and integrating the result into that work. The interest of the Product creator/seller is that they just don't want you selling or reselling their product - in the case of SONY that means their their "Theme pack" ... which is NOT the music, it is the software which allows generation of the music. A theme pack won't play on any player anywhere, it is not music. So it is the software you cannot sell. THAT is content (product) and theirs exclusively. Now that said, if you used the content (product) to create individual songs and tried to market them as your own product - as a stand alone product - to be sold commercially to allow someone else to them adapt and use as background music in their works, THAT is also a no-no. However, and this is prettty darned simple folks, you merely need to use these in your own creative works. The music you can generate and use in a work you create using that content is YOURS... no strings attached. "No restrictions". No fees, no hidden costs.

SmartSound's license is very similar as I reacll, and the only catch I remember and that Steve pointed out was is IF you have an actual a distribution of a DVD or disk with a product run in excess of 10,000 copies. How many of you fall into THAT category? And if you do, hire a lawyer - I know of a good one on here who specializes in this stuff (not me).

In short... STOP WORRYING. Cinescore, DJ and SonicFire (SmartSound) are all royalty free music. Buy them, use them as intended in a soundtrack on a film, and forget about it. You are shopping for issues where there are none.

Chris S.

ps. And I AM a lawyer. (Not that this constitutes legal advice, merely that I am perfectly comfortble using these products as I just mentioned, and am NOT worried.)

Last edited by Chris Swanberg; November 15th, 2009 at 08:23 PM.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 09:12 PM   #49
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That makes more sense

Thanks for that Chris, I was about to hit the trigger on Cinescore (lol, I have Cineform too) for use with video I'd post of the web. I was happened to be comparing Cinescore with SmartSound when the latter license started putting doubts in my mind about both.
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Old November 19th, 2009, 05:27 AM   #50
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Hey Chris, just cause you r a lawyer and cause you wrote me back about jamendo;i d like to know once you pay the songs i'm ok to use em as i like for my productions right?(speaking about jamendo system)
thx a lot Chris
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Old November 19th, 2009, 12:24 PM   #51
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Marcus - you have to read the terms and conditions on the site to make any determination as to restrictions on use. However, out of the curiosity you piqued, I looked at Jamendo and found the following:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
3.2.1 Use of Works

Each Work is made available to Users pursuant to a Creative Commons license identified by an icon. By clicking on that icon, you will know the conditions under which the ARTIST and JAMENDO authorize you to use his Work.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
So, each artist who has their music there retains the ultimate control over the use of their material. That makes it even more important to read their individual terms. One may allow free and unlimited use, another may not.

I reiterate my earlier point - FREE does not automatically mean unrestricted use (and it is quite possible to violate a copyright on free material.)
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Old November 24th, 2009, 12:57 AM   #52
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There is an aspect of Cinescore that I don't understand. I know what the Theme Packs are but I noticed in Sony's description of the product that Cinescore will import a range of audio file formats. What, if anything can it do with imported audio files other than include them on the timeline?
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Old November 28th, 2009, 03:31 PM   #53
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I read somewhere recently that Sony's Cinescore is No More. Apparently they have either discontinued the product or will be due to lack of sales and sound packs or whatever they call them. So... buy wisely :)
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Old November 30th, 2009, 02:43 PM   #54
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Cinescore's end

Sadly, tis true. SONY has announced:

"Cinescore software and Theme Packs will no longer be available for purchase from Sony Creative Software after December 31, 2009, so take advantage of these prices now, or miss your chance to load up on a lifetime of royalty-free soundtracks!"

I recall seeing something about a month or two ago about a licensing deal between SONY and SmartSound (SonjicFire Pro's parent) so maybe this was in the works.

I'm not sorry I have Cinescore, and though my libary of music for it will remain static going forward, I can still create a goodly number of soundtracks suitable for future works from it, so it will find good use.

Chris S.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 06:47 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Chris Swanberg View Post
I would point out that while Free and legal music downloads - Jamendo is a neat place with lots of participating artists uploading their work, use of the music there is NOT royalty free for use in films or other audio visual works.
Not royalty free but it is creative commons so it should be functionally equivilant for non-commerical use?

And, if I understand it correctly, there are 'attribution' based licenses which seems to be fully equivilant.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 09:09 PM   #56
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In reply to Jim Snow, several posts above, the ability to import other music doesn't allow you to do much to it you could not otherwise do... no magic... but you can bring it onto a time line with Sony stuff and render it out to the same codec. I also used Cineform recently to modify an MP3 into a WAV file, not that it would improve the quality but it also can be a vehicle to change formats.

And as to Jamendo, I should have included the modifier "necessarily" when saying "NOT Royalty Free". I again stress one needs to "READ THE LICENSE AGREEMENT."

Going back up I reread the concerns about Digital Juice and the 10,000 "copy" limit. When I replied I did not go back and re-read their license, but replied from memory. The other day I had occasion to re-read their license agreement. If you read their license that limit applies to mechanical copies only. And in another place gives unrestricted use to web apps. Yet we were asking if the 10,000 limitt meant you could not have 10,000 hits on a website before the "mechanical" limit kicked in. Careful reading will answer most questions. (No... web use has no limits, mechanical means physical copies - eg. disc dupes)
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Old December 9th, 2009, 04:01 AM   #57
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... If you read their license that limit applies to mechanical copies only. And in another place gives unrestricted use to web apps. Yet we were asking if the 10,000 limitt meant you could not have 10,000 hits on a website before the "mechanical" limit kicked in. Careful reading will answer most questions. (No... web use has no limits, mechanical means physical copies - eg. disc dupes)
And a further clarification, mechanical's license duplication and distribution only for audio recordings - ie music CDs, vinyl, or tape - distributed as purely audio recordings. When you use a song in a video soundtrack, you move into an entirely different universe and a mechanical does not license you to broadcast or distribute copies of the video on a DVD or other medium.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 05:50 AM   #58
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Stock20 sent an email selling the production library for $189, $40 of which goes to a Haiti fund. The pricing is good until Jan 25th If you've been waiting on the sidelines this is a good chance.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 07:02 AM   #59
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I've bought in to Stock 20's music during their December 2009 and I am constantly impressed with the quality. Plus they'll toss in a donation to the Haiti appeal if you purchase during the current special.

And their usage agreement won't ever crimp your potential for success. They are totally on-side.

BTW, (forgive me for the shameless plug) they have a referral program whereby we both get a free song credit if you sign up through this link.

No synth music, all recorded with real instruments and stunning production quality. Don't just take my word for it, read what Spot has to say.

Rave, rave, rave ... I know, I know .... I just absolutely love the product. Forgive me if I have carried on too much.

Andrew
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Old February 1st, 2010, 09:07 AM   #60
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What about Sound FX that is @ digital Juice? Have anybody out there tryed it?
thx
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