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Old April 13th, 2007, 08:32 PM   #1
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Using SD302 with Sony Z1

Just interested to know if anyone is using the SD302 with their Sony Z1's. I am trying to optimise the metering on the Z1 so that it matched the SD302 - but so far have not been able to get it right. What would help is that if anyone actually knows what each of the increments are on the Z1's audio level display. The last notch is red - but does this indicate 0dBFS (which I presume is most likely the case)? If so which notch is -12dBFS?

At the moment feeding line level to the Z1 from the SD302 seems to produce a much softer headphone output signal cmpared to mic level at the same meter setting. Another thing that I just don't quite get.

If anyone has optimised their Z1 to the SD302 with success I would like to know about it. There is certainly much less pre-amp hiss - but I just get the feeling that I am not getting the most out of the SD302.

Oh yes - I have read the set up menu options, and did try the procedure in the manual, but it seems that the output gain is right up and still the Z1's meters are well below that of the mixer.

Any help much appreciated.
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Last edited by Graeme Fullick; April 13th, 2007 at 11:59 PM.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 09:08 PM   #2
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Graeme,

Make sure the 302 meters are set to peak AND RMS. Send tone from the 302.

Does the camera have line inputs? Then set the 302 outputs to line. If Mic only, set the 302 outputs to mic.

find the -20 indicator on the camera. Send tone from the mixer to the camera and set the camera input meters to -20.

That's your starting point. Leave the mixer master at it's detented mid point 0.
Use the trim pots to increase the gain so the main pots run about 12 o' clock or more.

Um, read the manual.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old April 14th, 2007, 12:06 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme Fullick View Post
Just interested to know if anyone is using the SD302 with their Sony Z1's. I am trying to optimise the metering on the Z1 so that it matched the SD302 - but so far have not been able to get it right. What would help is that if anyone actually knows what each of the increments are on the Z1's audio level display. The last notch is red - but does this indicate 0dBFS (which I presume is most likeley the case)? If so which notch is -12dBFS?

At the moment feeding line level to the Z1 from the SD302 seems to produce a much softer headphone output signal cmpared to mic level at the same meter setting. Another thing that I just don't quite get.

If anyone has optimised their Z1 to the SD302 with success I would like to know about it. There is certainly much less pre-amp hiss - but I just get the feeling that I am not getting the most out of the SD302.

Oh yes - I have read the set up menu options, and did try the procedure in the manual, but it seems that the output gain is right up and still the Z1's meters are well below that of the mixer.

Any help much appreciated.
check that you dont have any atunuation on your mixer outs
check the camera -line level in
check the headphones camera out are 2 v ( internal menu)
put the mixer in menu mode
open the tone , now you have full scale 20 dbu tone

calibrate the camera that you have 0dbfs on the meters ( the last glows)



send the headphones to mixer return , adjust the gain then you will hear
eqal level( or calibrate the mixer so you will se the return on its meters and calibrate you have the same 0 dbu when you send 0 dbu tone


run your pick it would at least hit the +8-+10 dbu on mixer meter
calibrate your limmiters at +16-+18 fbu
you done


r
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Old April 14th, 2007, 12:14 AM   #4
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Thanks for the help Ty.

Thats pretty much what I have done.

Did read the manual on this one - which is why I made the post. It says that I should be able to match the meters on the SD to the camera. Have not quite got there yet, but maybe this is more to do with not being quite sure what the Z1 meters are actually displaying.

Have set the camera input to line (all that hiss from preamps dissappears - lovely!), and followed the instructions on setting the 1K tone knowing that the SD302 is set -20dBFS for 0dBu. Using the status check on the camera has at least given me some reference points now, as it has numbers on the audio meter scale of 0, 10 ,20 30 ,40 and infinity. The scale seems linear (except for the infinity) - which is a bit confusing - but I am guessing that these are supposed to be dBFS given that 0 is red.

At the moment I have set the output using the test tone to match the 12 on the Z1 audio meter which seems to be working better, but the meters still don't match. I guess that it is no big deal as long as it sounds good - which it does.

Oleg,

Thanks also for your reply - will definitely change the headphone setting to 2v - thats one that I certainly didn't think of! My problem is that I can't get the camera to 0dBFS on the meters, even when I wind the pot right out. I have opted to leave the pot a touch above middle and have slight mismatch.

Apart from that everything else seems to be working well and sounding great.

Thanks again,
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Last edited by Graeme Fullick; April 14th, 2007 at 01:12 AM.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 03:26 AM   #5
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Hi Graeme

I've got the SD Pre Mix but it is very similar in use to the 302, and works brilliantly with the Z1.

Ty gave me a load of info when I first got it and this gave me a good starting point...

I don't quite get what you mean match the meters???? They are not meant to be the same. You can push you mixer levels up and know you won't clip on the camera as you've set to a certain level..

I think you're doing it right... Send your tone to the line in put on the Z1... I set a bit hotter than Ty at -12... You can see the level more accurately if you push the display button to call up the VU meters.

I then set my mixer so it's level is just around the peak mark around 0db, but it goes to +4 and still sounds fine...or ..as hot as I can get away with. The preamps and the limiters work superbly keeping the level just right on camera and you always get a clean full audio track... as you say no hiss!! Set up this way I get great audio and know it's not going to clip or be too quiet.. It means I have far less tweaking in post.

I use mine with both my Sennheiser wireless mics or a Rode NTG2 on a boom...I leave the on camera shotgun set to a mic setting and use it for ambient. I send the mixer into one camera channel and the onboard into the other...

These are great pieces of kit and my audio is noticeably better since I've had it.

If your ears tell you it sounds good then it sounds good!!!

Regards
Gareth
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Old April 14th, 2007, 06:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme Fullick View Post
Thanks for the help Ty.

Thats pretty much what I have done.

Did read the manual on this one - which is why I made the post. It says that I should be able to match the meters on the SD to the camera. Have not quite got there yet, but maybe this is more to do with not being quite sure what the Z1 meters are actually displaying.

Have set the camera input to line (all that hiss from preamps dissappears - lovely!), and followed the instructions on setting the 1K tone knowing that the SD302 is set -20dBFS for 0dBu. Using the status check on the camera has at least given me some reference points now, as it has numbers on the audio meter scale of 0, 10 ,20 30 ,40 and infinity. The scale seems linear (except for the infinity) - which is a bit confusing - but I am guessing that these are supposed to be dBFS given that 0 is red.

At the moment I have set the output using the test tone to match the 12 on the Z1 audio meter which seems to be working better, but the meters still don't match. I guess that it is no big deal as long as it sounds good - which it does.

Thanks again,
The meters won't read exactly the same on mixer and camera. And yes, you can set tone for -12 on the camera. As long as you're not seeing peak levels over +12 on your mixer, you should be fine.

I forget where the limiting thresholds can be adjusted to on the 302, but on my 442, I set my 0 dB mixer reference to -20 on a digital camera. (different rules apply for analog cameras) That means I run mixer levels all the way to +20. BUT! I have my limiter threshold set at +16dB so any audio that gets to +16 on the mixer is caught by the limiter. I have found that some very quick sounds like clapping or the sound of a three ring binder clicking open can sneak past the limiter.

By setting the limiter at +16, I still usually have 4 dB (16 + 4 = 20) of safe headroom.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old April 14th, 2007, 07:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
The meters won't read exactly the same on mixer and camera. And yes, you can set tone for -12 on the camera. As long as you're not seeing peak levels over +12 on your mixer, you should be fine.

I forget where the limiting thresholds can be adjusted to on the 302, but on my 442, I set my 0 dB mixer reference to -20 on a digital camera. (different rules apply for analog cameras) That means I run mixer levels all the way to +20. BUT! I have my limiter threshold set at +16dB so any audio that gets to +16 on the mixer is caught by the limiter. I have found that some very quick sounds like clapping or the sound of a three ring binder clicking open can sneak past the limiter.

By setting the limiter at +16, I still usually have 4 dB (16 + 4 = 20) of safe headroom.

Regards,

Ty Ford
Yep that's the info Ty gave me before.... and what I apply to my audio recordings... and is in essence what I posted... works great...(Thanks Ty) these little SD mixers are the bizz..As I said my audio is noticeably better.

Regards
Gareth
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Old April 14th, 2007, 08:21 AM   #8
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just make sure you don't have a brain fart and set the meters on the mixer to read RMS instead of peak/rms.

I did that once and was silently freaking out at how low the levels were until it dawned on me that I had hit the wrong button.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old April 14th, 2007, 03:30 PM   #9
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Thanks Guys,

With your help I now have it sorted.

Gareth,

I am running my system much the same - wireless to CH 1 and MKH416 into channel 3 - works well. I just have to try to find a small waist bag to sit it in when I am working.

Much appreciated,

All the best,
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