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Old April 21st, 2007, 08:00 PM   #1
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To Steve H

Hello Steve, long time since I've visited this forum. I've been following trough your great explanations about digital sync VS timecode, and how does BWF that recorders like the HD-P2 use get along in all this. First I want to thank you about your explanations. I used to believe BWF had timecode embedded, thanks to your explanations now I know just the first sample has TC stamp, a mystery to me up till now.

Now, Its very clear to me, according to your explanation, that there is no way for getting TC sync with pro sumer cameras and a recorder like the HD-P2, other than specifying same frame rate on camera and recorder, and using a smart slate, jammed to the HD-P2 and align in the NLE in the old way, and if possible get digital clock sync between camera and recorder via video or word clock if doing large shootings. Seems pretty straight, unless I'm missing something?

Now my questions...
1) Since most of my clients here don't have a smart slate...I'm considering purchasing one myself. What would be an affordable one that would play along with the HD-P2?

2) what happens with film? Some of my friends do short films ocassionaly. Obviously shot at 24 fps. As far as I understand they send the footage to a post house wich during telecine changes to 29.97 video or something from wich they do the edits in usually FCP (no avid here). They do their edits and generate an EDL's that reference the original TC of the footage....
I'm wondering how a setup with an HD-P2 will integrate in all this...
Thanks in advance!
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 06:52 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Berns Ortiz View Post
Hello Steve, long time since I've visited this forum. I've been following trough your great explanations about digital sync VS timecode, and how does BWF that recorders like the HD-P2 use get along in all this. First I want to thank you about your explanations. I used to believe BWF had timecode embedded, thanks to your explanations now I know just the first sample has TC stamp, a mystery to me up till now.

Now, Its very clear to me, according to your explanation, that there is no way for getting TC sync with pro sumer cameras and a recorder like the HD-P2, other than specifying same frame rate on camera and recorder, and using a smart slate, jammed to the HD-P2 and align in the NLE in the old way, and if possible get digital clock sync between camera and recorder via video or word clock if doing large shootings. Seems pretty straight, unless I'm missing something?

Now my questions...
1) Since most of my clients here don't have a smart slate...I'm considering purchasing one myself. What would be an affordable one that would play along with the HD-P2?

2) what happens with film? Some of my friends do short films ocassionaly. Obviously shot at 24 fps. As far as I understand they send the footage to a post house wich during telecine changes to 29.97 video or something from wich they do the edits in usually FCP (no avid here). They do their edits and generate an EDL's that reference the original TC of the footage....
I'm wondering how a setup with an HD-P2 will integrate in all this...
Thanks in advance!
Thanks for you comments.

There may be some light on the horizon for getting TC from prosumer cameras. At NAB Ambient announced their new 'LANC Logger' product that reads from a LANC terminal and outputs LTC.

While there are a couple of cameras from Arriflex and Aaton/Panavision that do record timecode on the film, for the most part in film a timecode slate jammed from the audio recorder or timecode master is used. With analog or DAT recorders LTC is recorded alongside the sound and that's used to establish sync in telecine. Normal TC frame rate is 30FPS non-drop with DAT and filebased recorders set to 48kHz sample rate. (Sometimes 48.048kHz if it's available to avoid having to pitch-shift in telecine.) File based recorders timestamp the file header and during resolution in telecine the code that *would* have been generated as the file plays is regenerated by the software off of the timestamp and the frame rate. The sync point is an old-fashioned clapper slate with TC - the telecine operator finds the frame in the film where the sticks just close, reads the TC displayed on the slate and punches the numbers into the computer and the telecine software finds the appropriate spot in the audio file and lines 'em up to create the video clip with sound.

There's a slight problem with jamming the HD-P2 to a smart slate and that is while the recorder will chase external TC just fine, it doesn't OUTPUT code to another device. That means that the slate you choose needs to have a TC generator on it to serve as the code master rather than just a TC reader and AFAIK both the Ambient and Denecke models are readers only. While they generate code internally once jammed and don't need a continuous connection, they don't output their code to serve as the master for another device to sync to them. So you'll need not only the slate but also a master clock of some sort such as an Ambient clockit and you'd then jam both the recorder and the slate from it from that clock.

Don't know if you got the HD-P2 yet but if not, you might want to consider the SD 702T instead. The 702 outputs code so you can jam the slate to it, eliminating the need for another clock source and the overall cost of Tascam + Clockit+slate will be very close to the cost of SD702T+slate.
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Last edited by Steve House; April 22nd, 2007 at 08:26 AM.
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