plugging XLR into non XLR camera - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 11th, 2007, 11:53 AM   #16
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: chattanooga, tn
Posts: 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Cofran View Post
Those 1/8 camera inputs are fragile and the cord can easily pull out. If you have to send your camera in for a repair or have the audio cut out in the middle of taping something you wont be too happy with the money you saved by going with an adapter.
And Beachteks connect to cameras using these same connectors, do they not? :) Loop the cable around the handle or something for strain relief. Apply some gaff tape to this loop if you want extra security. Problem solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Cofran View Post
While this one situation might work its usually better to think ahead. If you ever go hand held how are you going to carry around a mixer with you? Its difficult to predict what you'll need in the future, thats why most get equipment that affords the most flexibility.
We're talking about portable mixers no bigger than the Beachtek. You wouldn't want to carry around a 24-input console. :)

In this case, what I'm saying is that thinking ahead might prevent you from spending money that you needn't have spent. You can get a small mixer for about the same price as the Beachtek, and you will actually have more flexibility this way, not less. In addition, a small mixer will be every bit as portable as the Beachtek.

If you only need the one input, then you're saving a HUGE amount of money by getting a simple adapter cable, and your audio will sound no worse for it at all.
__________________
-->jarrod whaley.
www.oakstreetfilms.com
Jarrod Whaley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2007, 12:01 PM   #17
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,551
I don't know what type of mixer she's talking about but even if its the smaller variety if its not designed to bolt on to the bottom of your camera its going to be a pain. The beachtek doesn't put a strain on the 1/8" input because its attached to the camera. While there are work arounds thats what they are work arounds. Its difficult over a message board to really know whats needed but we can agree to disagree.
Pete Cofrancesco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2007, 12:14 PM   #18
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: chattanooga, tn
Posts: 721
Sure. If you want to buy a Beachtek, then by all means go right ahead. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just that it's not really necessary, and lots of people think that it is. We're just pointing out here that there are other ways to skin that cat, and that sometimes these other ways are cheaper and/or provide added functionality.

As for small mixers being a pain, that's not really true. There are thousands of professional crews using them every day. You can quite easily clip them onto your belt. And if you simply take care with your connection to the camera and loop your cable like I was saying, then stress to the jack is not an issue. By definition, all of these methods (including the Beachtek) are work-arounds, because we're doing things with these cameras that they were not designed to do. This is the price one pays for using consumer gear in a professional context.

I'm not trying at all to argue with you here, Pete. I'm just helping Carly and Cole see what their options are.
__________________
-->jarrod whaley.
www.oakstreetfilms.com
Jarrod Whaley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2007, 01:45 PM   #19
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Posts: 2,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Cofran View Post
I don't know what type of mixer she's talking about but even if its the smaller variety if its not designed to bolt on to the bottom of your camera its going to be a pain. The beachtek doesn't put a strain on the 1/8" input because its attached to the camera. While there are work arounds thats what they are work arounds. Its difficult over a message board to really know whats needed but we can agree to disagree.
Yes, well, then you can't change the volume during a shot because you'll shake the camera. Good audio mixers (people, that is) may need to adjust volume during a take.

Strapping a box to the bottom of a camera pretty much makes that impossible.

Regards,
Ty Ford
Ty Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2007, 02:28 PM   #20
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
Yes, well, then you can't change the volume during a shot because you'll shake the camera. Good audio mixers (people, that is) may need to adjust volume during a take.

Strapping a box to the bottom of a camera pretty much makes that impossible.

Regards,
Ty Ford
Maybe thats because you don't use a run and gun style that most of my gigs seem to be. By run and gun I mean: one person, no audio guy with a boom and mixer. Hand holding the camera, wireless receiver strapped to the camera or on your belt, light with power cable going to a heavy battery also strapped to your belt. So I guess I wouldn't want another cable with a mixer also strapped to my belt.

I'd also add its easier to adjust audio levels with out much camera shake with a beachtek than fiddling around with the camera menus. And if your camera is on a tripod its even better because the audio controls are at your finger tips so you don't have to take your eyes off the viewfinder.

I'm just pointing out why beachtek is used by so many people. Its not the only way to do it but I think its one of the best options if you don't have a camera with xlr inputs. A lot of this stuff is predicated on the budget and shooting style your using. But the vast majority of ppl using pro-sumer camera such as these are working on the low end and are shooting solo. Btw, i've got myself a camera with xlr inputs because i got tired of these work arounds.
Pete Cofrancesco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2007, 02:51 PM   #21
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Posts: 2,323
I define run and gun, which I do as a sound person as moving quickly from place to place while tethered to a camera.

I have a breakaway multipin cable that plugs into the camera audio in and headphone out. The breakaway cable is about 2 feet long and there's a connector that I can undo or do in seconds that connects to my main cable.

Given what you say, I'd suggest a Sound Devices MixPre, providing your camera has line inputs. It's preamps are better than any cameras and the input and output limiters keep your audio from crashing.

I have seen brackets somewhere for mounting the MixPre under the camera, much as a Beachtek might, but the sound you'll get is much better.

Regards,

Ty Ford
Ty Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2007, 07:22 PM   #22
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Cofran View Post
...I'd also add its easier to adjust audio levels with out much camera shake with a beachtek than fiddling around with the camera menus. And if your camera is on a tripod its even better because the audio controls are at your finger tips so you don't have to take your eyes off the viewfinder.
...
I hate to sound hard-a***d but IMHO ANY camera shake is unacceptable for other than that once in a life-time situation where the historical importance of the story outweighs any technical considerations. "Not much" shake doesn't cut it.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2007, 09:41 PM   #23
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Posts: 2,323
Oh Steve! I love it when you talk like that!

Regards,

Ty
Ty Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2007, 09:55 PM   #24
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: chattanooga, tn
Posts: 721
Hmmm, a little flirting going on in here.
__________________
-->jarrod whaley.
www.oakstreetfilms.com
Jarrod Whaley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2007, 11:09 PM   #25
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA
Posts: 1,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House View Post
I hate to sound hard-a***d but IMHO ANY camera shake is unacceptable for other than that once in a life-time situation where the historical importance of the story outweighs any technical considerations. "Not much" shake doesn't cut it.
for shake, I use shake ;)
__________________
Web Youtube Facebook
Cole McDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 06:43 PM   #26
New Boot
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 19
If you have a field mixer, you should be able to run a line-level to the camera (most sound guys I know think this is preferrable noise-wise to feeding a mic level input).

BTW, I use an Azden FMX42, and it is a little of a pain in the neck (literally). I use it to split the mic to my Tascam HD-P2 field recorder and the camera to record "dual-system". Even if I'm on my own, I still prefer to have the mixer and recorder slung over my shoulders (I'm a sound guy who also likes to do the photography sometimes). If I have the luxury of a tripod and a stationary subject, I can put the sound equipment on a stand next to it and glance at it and tweak the levels from time to time.

In my film club we generally have someone manning the field mixer in real time, monitoring and adjusting the levels - something much more difficult to do using the camera controls. Also, some cameras don't allow you to turn off the automatic gain control - something you really want to do unless you're shooting home movies. We set the levels on the camera in advance during a sound check and then let the DP concentrate solely on shooting the picture. And there's usually a dedicated boom operator who can just concentrate on aiming the mic at whomever is speaking - but if we are short on crew, the boom operator usually handles mixing duties as well (as best he can).

And if you're using multiple mics, of course you absolutely need a mixer.
Robert Gordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 08:47 PM   #27
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Posts: 1,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly Scagnetti View Post
How can I plug an XLR microphone into my canon GL2 camera? Will I need to purchase an adapter such as the Beachtek ones? Or can I just use an one of those inexpensive XLR To 1/4" Microphone Cable Adapter? Or could I use a mixer to do this? Thanks.
Carly,

Everyone else has concentrated on the physical connection. You should be aware that no matter HOW you physically connect the microphone to your camera, if the microphone is BALANCED - that is to say it has a 3 wire connection (Any Mic that has a connection with 3 pins IS balanced) then you need to maintain the balanced wiring properly up to a point as close as possible to the camcorder if you wish to enjoy the main reason that balanced audio exists. And that is to REMOVE inductive noise from the cable so that you get a quieter signal to noise ratio.

You can search on Balanced Audio to help understand this. But the practical point is that simply adapting a 3 conductor balanced audio line to a 3 conductor STEREO input - will NOT keep the circuit balanced.

(The better under-camera adaptors DO keep the line balanced up to the device. So they're superior to any passive connection in noise handling.)

Hope that helps.
Bill Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2009, 06:00 AM   #28
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Posts: 2,323
And in addition to what Bill says, the other benefit from having a balanced (two wire+one ground) connection over an unbalanced (one wire+one ground) is another 6dB of signal over noise. That's a "free gift" a balanced circuit provides over an unbalanced circuit.

6dB of signal over the noise of the camera audio circuit can make a noticeable difference.

Regards,

Ty Ford
Ty Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2009, 02:29 PM   #29
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bothell Washington
Posts: 174
Beachtek

My first 3 chip camera was a Canon GL-1, I used a Beachtek adapter unit that connected to the bottom of the camera. I carried the camera as it was designed and worked well. It also has different inputs from 1/8" to two xlr cables.
Mark Boyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2009, 03:41 PM   #30
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
For the best results, use a clean external preamp with gain, and turn the gain down in the camera. The camera likely has a cheaper preamp and is a noisier environment. It's especially likely that the camera has a cheap preamp if it doesn't have balanced inputs.

Options are:
1) Use a juicedLink, which is very clean and provides a 1/8" mic level output with gain.
2) Use a field mixer with line output, feed it thourgh a balanced/unbalance transformer and select line level input on the camera. (Not all cameras offer this option. The 5D2 does not.)
3) Use a field mixer with a line output and use a balanced/unbalanced transformer and a pad to a camera that only has a mic level input.
4) Just use a balanced/unbalanced transformer or passive device. (This is the worst solution in terms of noise.)

The bottom line is that the juicedLink is built for the job. Note that it can accept mic or line inputs, so you can run a separate field mixer upstream, if that's the way you shoot. Keep the juicedLink at the camera so the unbalanced line is as short as possible. It's set up with 1/4" threads top and bottom, so it can mount between the camera and tripod. Select a low, fixed gain in the camera and turn up the juicedLink to or near the max. Even at full gain (+18dB or so), the CX231 is very, very clean.

I compare the juicedLink and Beachtek into the 5D, as well as the H4n and Microtrack II here:

1. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Boom Mic (juicedLink, Zoom H4n, Microtrack II, BeachTek) on Vimeo
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:30 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network