What is this **** beeping? at DVinfo.net

Emre Safak · July 13th, 2007, 12:30 PM

This is a clip taken from an office scene with overhead fluos, shot on an XL2 with an AT4073a and an AT40xx. I do not remember which channel is which.

Is it cell phone traffic? Whatever it was, neither the cameraman nor the boom operator heard it.

Richard Alvarez · July 13th, 2007, 12:35 PM

I'd almost describe it as a 'squeaking'.. More like a mechanical noise than an electronic one. Might be tape transport problems?

Emre Safak · July 13th, 2007, 12:41 PM

You think so? Would cleaning the head have helped? It did not happen in every scene, despite the fact that we used the same equipment. Perhaps it got worse over time?

John Miller · July 13th, 2007, 01:54 PM

To me, it sounds electronic. In particular, interference from something that is either transmitting an RF communication signal (wireless network, cell phone etc) or something digital operating at high frequency and with poor shielding (such as a computer).

Does it occur in specific locations in the office(s)? If so, it may give you a clue.

I can understand why it was detected during the shoot - it is very weak.

Emre Safak · July 13th, 2007, 02:01 PM

There were computers with LCD screens running nearby (it was an office scene, after all).

However, it also happened in other scenes featuring the same actor, so I think my cell phone hypothesis might be right.

John Miller · July 13th, 2007, 02:52 PM

Sounds very plausible. It reminds of when I have been on a conference call in a conference room with a wireless speakerphone, I would occasionally hear some beeps quite similar to yours and someone's cell phone would ring. It got to the point that I would say "Your phone is about to ring...."

My guess is that it is the cell phone talking back to the tower when the network is trying to establish a connection.

Emre Safak · July 13th, 2007, 03:02 PM

Now that I think about it, I can sometimes hear my girlfriend's cell phone do the same thing over her web camera. Why do microphones make it more audible?

The bad thing is that I already did a dubbing session with the actor and he probably had his cell phone on again :( The good news is that we have more dubbing sessions lined up, so I will sure to ask everyone to turn off their cell phones.

How do big productions cope with this problem?

Steve House · July 13th, 2007, 04:20 PM

That didn't sound like a cell phone to me. They usually produce a "brraaaap braaaap braaaap" kind of sound when they phone home. It sounds to my ears like something flowing through a pipe somewhere, maybe a noisy coolant pump in the air conditioning system. I hear it under a whirring-humming sound that definitely sounds like HVAC so I'd suspect it's also a part of the noise from the air conditioning system

Steve House · July 13th, 2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emre Safak

...How do big productions cope with this problem?

They put in the contract that any powered-up cell phones within 100 yards of the location will be summarily destroyed <grin>.

Lorinda Norton · July 13th, 2007, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

It sounds to my ears like something flowing through a pipe somewhere, maybe a noisy coolant pump in the air conditioning system. I hear it under a whirring-humming sound that definitely sounds like HVAC so I'd suspect it's also a part of the noise from the air conditioning system

Agreed. I'd know that sound anywhere; my CA sounds just like it--especially noticeable at night when I can't sleep. :)

Emre Safak · July 13th, 2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorinda Norton

Agreed. I'd know that sound anywhere; my CA sounds just like it--especially noticeable at night when I can't sleep. :)

Except there was no air conditioning in one of the locations.

Chris Soucy · July 13th, 2007, 05:47 PM

Well, I've listened to that clip 20 times and thought it familiar, then I read your comment about "office scene" & "computers with LCD screens" and then it hit me - that sounds like the mute but distinct sound of an office chair return spring under load - like when you tilt back in the chair and then roll forward again - were there any within a bulls roar of the shoot and more to the point - were there any bums on one?

CS

Tim Hodgson · July 13th, 2007, 06:21 PM

You might also look for something a little less sophisticated. It doesn't sound electronic to me and it definitely doesn't sound like cell phone carrier being picked up by your equipment.

Does your soundperson have hanging earings? Or a noisy necklace? Or is there a loose bolt somewhere on your tripod/jib/crane? Were there two glasses on the desk that were just touching each other? Did one of the computers have a key hanging from the back of it? Or one of the crew have keys ? Was there a cat in the room? Don't laugh ... it's all possible.

The sound seems random, although the clip is short so there may be a pattern that isn't complete yet. But what I hear is mechanical and probably something inane.

Remember, you are the only one thinking of every possible scenario and problem during a shoot. The crew are just there for the food. So a soundperson wearing earings, necklace and charm bracelets wouldn't understand why they should be a problem.

Anyway, run the entire audio clip through a good editor that has noise reduction and that will suck it out of there.

My two cents ...

Tim

Richard Alvarez · July 13th, 2007, 08:00 PM

One final question. Were you using a 16xmanual lens in these shots?

Emre Safak · July 13th, 2007, 10:13 PM

Chris: There were office chairs, and people were sitting in them.

Tim: You are right that no-one thinks about it as much as I do.

Richard: We used the stock lens.

Here is another clip taken at another location and date. The only thing in common is one actor, the crew, and the camera. No air conditioning, fluos or office chairs; it's a bedroom scene.

I thank everyone who has contributed. Together we make a great team!

July 13th, 2007, 12:41 PM	#3
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	You think so? Would cleaning the head have helped? It did not happen in every scene, despite the fact that we used the same equipment. Perhaps it got worse over time? Last edited by Emre Safak; July 13th, 2007 at 01:23 PM.

July 13th, 2007, 04:20 PM	#8
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	That didn't sound like a cell phone to me. They usually produce a "brraaaap braaaap braaaap" kind of sound when they phone home. It sounds to my ears like something flowing through a pipe somewhere, maybe a noisy coolant pump in the air conditioning system. I hear it under a whirring-humming sound that definitely sounds like HVAC so I'd suspect it's also a part of the noise from the air conditioning system __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

July 13th, 2007, 05:47 PM	#12
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,682 Images: 18	Hi Emre...... Well, I've listened to that clip 20 times and thought it familiar, then I read your comment about "office scene" & "computers with LCD screens" and then it hit me - that sounds like the mute but distinct sound of an office chair return spring under load - like when you tilt back in the chair and then roll forward again - were there any within a bulls roar of the shoot and more to the point - were there any bums on one? CS

July 13th, 2007, 12:35 PM	#2
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	I'd almost describe it as a 'squeaking'.. More like a mechanical noise than an electronic one. Might be tape transport problems?

July 13th, 2007, 01:54 PM	#4
John Miller Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hillsborough, NC, USA Posts: 968	To me, it sounds electronic. In particular, interference from something that is either transmitting an RF communication signal (wireless network, cell phone etc) or something digital operating at high frequency and with poor shielding (such as a computer). Does it occur in specific locations in the office(s)? If so, it may give you a clue. I can understand why it was detected during the shoot - it is very weak.

July 13th, 2007, 02:01 PM	#5
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	There were computers with LCD screens running nearby (it was an office scene, after all). However, it also happened in other scenes featuring the same actor, so I think my cell phone hypothesis might be right.

July 13th, 2007, 02:52 PM	#6
John Miller Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hillsborough, NC, USA Posts: 968	Sounds very plausible. It reminds of when I have been on a conference call in a conference room with a wireless speakerphone, I would occasionally hear some beeps quite similar to yours and someone's cell phone would ring. It got to the point that I would say "Your phone is about to ring...." My guess is that it is the cell phone talking back to the tower when the network is trying to establish a connection.

July 13th, 2007, 03:02 PM	#7
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	Now that I think about it, I can sometimes hear my girlfriend's cell phone do the same thing over her web camera. Why do microphones make it more audible? The bad thing is that I already did a dubbing session with the actor and he probably had his cell phone on again :( The good news is that we have more dubbing sessions lined up, so I will sure to ask everyone to turn off their cell phones. How do big productions cope with this problem?

July 13th, 2007, 06:21 PM	#13
Tim Hodgson New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Westport Ontario Canada Posts: 18	You might also look for something a little less sophisticated. It doesn't sound electronic to me and it definitely doesn't sound like cell phone carrier being picked up by your equipment. Does your soundperson have hanging earings? Or a noisy necklace? Or is there a loose bolt somewhere on your tripod/jib/crane? Were there two glasses on the desk that were just touching each other? Did one of the computers have a key hanging from the back of it? Or one of the crew have keys ? Was there a cat in the room? Don't laugh ... it's all possible. The sound seems random, although the clip is short so there may be a pattern that isn't complete yet. But what I hear is mechanical and probably something inane. Remember, you are the only one thinking of every possible scenario and problem during a shoot. The crew are just there for the food. So a soundperson wearing earings, necklace and charm bracelets wouldn't understand why they should be a problem. Anyway, run the entire audio clip through a good editor that has noise reduction and that will suck it out of there. My two cents ... Tim

July 13th, 2007, 08:00 PM	#14
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	One final question. Were you using a 16xmanual lens in these shots?