Homemade 35mm Adapter

Donnie Wagner · December 13th, 2004, 07:35 AM

serious chemical for amateurs...

I work with a company that does chemical etching and Chem-milling, I would not attempt to do it myself. They can control the "fineness" of the texture with time and tempertature of the etching, so maybe I'll give it a shot and let everyone know how it turns out. The other advantage is that I could etch several different UV filters in a matter of minutes. each to varying degrees of texture, vs. what seems to be a long grinding process.

Jim Lafferty · December 13th, 2004, 08:49 AM

That would be great, provided you can get the texture finer than WAO5 glass or microwax. Please let us know -- I'd even offer some space to host full-res video once you shoot with the best glass.

- jim

Bob Hart · December 13th, 2004, 10:58 AM

If it could be made as fine and dense as that bloom you find on old glass bottles left in the tropical sun and desert sand for 100 years, it would be very seriously worthy of considering.

James Hurd · December 13th, 2004, 11:02 AM

I second that.

Ben Gurvich · December 15th, 2004, 01:43 AM

I was showing my brand new Agus to some video guys that work in the top post production house in my state.

They were pretty impressed, but i was suprised they werent really aware of mini35. Anyway, one of the guys there suggested putting an actual shutter in there, like a disc with a section cut out, synced to 50hz giving you exactly 25fps resolved image.

He also suggested a speed control for more or less grain, which i liked the sound of.

Then i got to thinking, what if you layered the cd with film*(exposed to like white light) say at 800 or even 3200 speed , then you have real grain- if the cam could even see it- somehow i dont think this would work but i thought interesting idea anyway.

Cheers,
Ben

Bob Hart · December 15th, 2004, 07:51 AM

Ben.

The film emulsion thing has been mentioned before but I cannot recall the outcome. The 180 degree shutter idea I have thought of. Except for the tracking, a drum motor from a video should do the trick. The issue is with resolution. True 50P cams would not have a problem but 25P may not have enough time to complete the frame. 50hz interlace is not going to work without a resolution penalty as you lose one field assuming you are able to get the sync worked out. I think Sony shed one field when the PD150 shoots 25 frames per second and I think there is a resolution penalty.

I tried a piece of paper stuck onto a wild motor driven disk. I was not very impressed and it would be a good way to induce an epileptic seizure. A slow running disk with several segments masked off might be a better solution.

It would be possible to rig a controller like the system used on the CP16 which syncs from a crystal reference against interrupts created by a spinning metal disk with holes in it on the drive motor but instead take the reference from the camcorder. Its all much to high science for my feeble brain and ability to execute beyond the knowing of the conception of it.

Lemac may have a Mini35 for hire. There is at least one in eastern Australia for rental.

Aaron Shaw · December 15th, 2004, 11:14 PM

Hey guys,

Just ran across this when looking for GG options and alternatives. Anyone used one of these before? It seems to be JUST what we need! It was designed for trasfering film to video! I'm curious how this works or what materials are used. They claim it is 100% grainless.

http://www.stabitech.nl/glasscreen.htm#top

Somewhat pricy but may be well worth the cost. Especially if it saves you from spending as much or more on an oscillating design!

What do you guys think?

They only seem to sell these things in large sizes. I wonder if we could convince them to manufacture some smaller pieces.....

James Hurd · December 16th, 2004, 11:23 PM

Dove prism flips the image right-side up. But the image is still reversed (mirrored).

Oh well.

Valeriu Campan · December 16th, 2004, 11:52 PM

Ben,
As Bob said, Lemac in Melbourne have the mini35 for hire.

Bob Hart · December 17th, 2004, 02:41 AM

James.

I'm very sorry to have raised a false hope abd sent you on a goosechase. It was a hasty test on the man's office desk and was accompanied by a comment along the lines of "see I told you so". On recall now, he may have been talking about a projected image on a reflecting screen, not a rear projection screen. I shall have furthur words with him. A pity because that barcode through the dove prism looked crisp.

I guess there had better be the message to follow :-

WARNING: DO NOT GO OUT AND BUY THE DOVE PRISM. IT FLIPS IMAGE VERTICALLY BUT NOT HORIZONTALLY IN A REVERSE PROJECTION APPLICATION.

Thanks for the post correcting the inccorrect assumption.

Bob Hart · January 8th, 2005, 07:46 AM

Some things were never meant to be brought together. The PD150 and the MTO-1000AM mirror telephoto are perhaps two of them. However, as ther MTO has a Nikon mount and the AGUD35 has a Nikon mount ---

I have sent some .jpg images to Chris Hurd with my usual request for him to furthur overload the server.

The images are titled, agusmto1.jpg or similar and also two nv images for curiosity sake titled bandinv2.jpg and firecomp.jpg, which were originated on PD150 via a PYSER PNP-HG. The PNP-HG does not perform satisfactorily into a PD150 without replacement of the relay optics.

Oscar Spierenburg · January 12th, 2005, 08:19 AM

I read this tread some time ago (and made a prototype), so I don't know if the things I’m suggesting are already debated, because I didn't read the whole tread again.

Has anyone considered to take apart his LCD screen of the camera and turn the (transparent) thing upside-down and mirrored. This way you could see what you are filming the way it should be.

Now the thing I'm working on:
I'm making a new 35mm adapter only the projected image will be split in two and filmed by two (identical) cameras.
My first tests (just a still frame) gave a very sharp picture after stitching them together on the PC.

I'll try to do it with one mirror to split the screen and the cameras on their sides.
If anyone is interested, I'll post some more (maybe the test frame) Maybe start a new tread?
And if people have suggestions, please let me know.
Thanks for this forum anyway, it helped me allot,

Oscar

Matt Champagne · January 12th, 2005, 02:48 PM

I've talked about this split image cameras...but i believe my idea was to serve a different function. I'd definatly be interested in what your trying to do, so maybe it might be a good idea to start a new thread. First off...how are you splitting the image? beam splitting prism?

The one thing I'd be worried about if you are compiling images like this is if your frame rates will properly synch up...if not your going to get something akin to very serious interlacing.

Oscar Spierenburg · January 12th, 2005, 04:47 PM

I post a new tread on this supject here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?threadid=37675

Bob Hart · January 16th, 2005, 01:30 AM

For those who have the curiosity, the images agusmto1.jpg; agusmto3.jpg; agusmto4.jpg; agusmto8.jpg; bandinv2.jpg and firecomp.jpg have been posted at www.dvinfo.net/media/hart.

"agusmto8.jpg" is an image of the whole improbable appliance.

December 13th, 2004, 08:49 AM	#1232
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	That would be great, provided you can get the texture finer than WAO5 glass or microwax. Please let us know -- I'd even offer some space to host full-res video once you shoot with the best glass. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

December 16th, 2004, 11:23 PM	#1238
James Hurd Micro35 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 221	Dove Prism Dove prism flips the image right-side up. But the image is still reversed (mirrored). Oh well.

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December 13th, 2004, 07:35 AM	#1231
Donnie Wagner Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 135	serious chemical for amateurs... I work with a company that does chemical etching and Chem-milling, I would not attempt to do it myself. They can control the "fineness" of the texture with time and tempertature of the etching, so maybe I'll give it a shot and let everyone know how it turns out. The other advantage is that I could etch several different UV filters in a matter of minutes. each to varying degrees of texture, vs. what seems to be a long grinding process.

December 13th, 2004, 10:58 AM	#1233
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	If it could be made as fine and dense as that bloom you find on old glass bottles left in the tropical sun and desert sand for 100 years, it would be very seriously worthy of considering.

December 13th, 2004, 11:02 AM	#1234
James Hurd Micro35 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 221	I second that.

December 15th, 2004, 01:43 AM	#1235
Ben Gurvich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 329	I was showing my brand new Agus to some video guys that work in the top post production house in my state. They were pretty impressed, but i was suprised they werent really aware of mini35. Anyway, one of the guys there suggested putting an actual shutter in there, like a disc with a section cut out, synced to 50hz giving you exactly 25fps resolved image. He also suggested a speed control for more or less grain, which i liked the sound of. Then i got to thinking, what if you layered the cd with film*(exposed to like white light) say at 800 or even 3200 speed , then you have real grain- if the cam could even see it- somehow i dont think this would work but i thought interesting idea anyway. Cheers, Ben

December 15th, 2004, 07:51 AM	#1236
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	Ben. The film emulsion thing has been mentioned before but I cannot recall the outcome. The 180 degree shutter idea I have thought of. Except for the tracking, a drum motor from a video should do the trick. The issue is with resolution. True 50P cams would not have a problem but 25P may not have enough time to complete the frame. 50hz interlace is not going to work without a resolution penalty as you lose one field assuming you are able to get the sync worked out. I think Sony shed one field when the PD150 shoots 25 frames per second and I think there is a resolution penalty. I tried a piece of paper stuck onto a wild motor driven disk. I was not very impressed and it would be a good way to induce an epileptic seizure. A slow running disk with several segments masked off might be a better solution. It would be possible to rig a controller like the system used on the CP16 which syncs from a crystal reference against interrupts created by a spinning metal disk with holes in it on the drive motor but instead take the reference from the camcorder. Its all much to high science for my feeble brain and ability to execute beyond the knowing of the conception of it. Lemac may have a Mini35 for hire. There is at least one in eastern Australia for rental.

December 15th, 2004, 11:14 PM	#1237
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Hey guys, Just ran across this when looking for GG options and alternatives. Anyone used one of these before? It seems to be JUST what we need! It was designed for trasfering film to video! I'm curious how this works or what materials are used. They claim it is 100% grainless. http://www.stabitech.nl/glasscreen.htm#top Somewhat pricy but may be well worth the cost. Especially if it saves you from spending as much or more on an oscillating design! What do you guys think? They only seem to sell these things in large sizes. I wonder if we could convince them to manufacture some smaller pieces.....

December 16th, 2004, 11:52 PM	#1239
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	Ben, As Bob said, Lemac in Melbourne have the mini35 for hire.

December 17th, 2004, 02:41 AM	#1240
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	James. I'm very sorry to have raised a false hope abd sent you on a goosechase. It was a hasty test on the man's office desk and was accompanied by a comment along the lines of "see I told you so". On recall now, he may have been talking about a projected image on a reflecting screen, not a rear projection screen. I shall have furthur words with him. A pity because that barcode through the dove prism looked crisp. I guess there had better be the message to follow :- WARNING: DO NOT GO OUT AND BUY THE DOVE PRISM. IT FLIPS IMAGE VERTICALLY BUT NOT HORIZONTALLY IN A REVERSE PROJECTION APPLICATION. Thanks for the post correcting the inccorrect assumption.

January 8th, 2005, 07:46 AM	#1241
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	Some things were never meant to be brought together. The PD150 and the MTO-1000AM mirror telephoto are perhaps two of them. However, as ther MTO has a Nikon mount and the AGUD35 has a Nikon mount --- I have sent some .jpg images to Chris Hurd with my usual request for him to furthur overload the server. The images are titled, agusmto1.jpg or similar and also two nv images for curiosity sake titled bandinv2.jpg and firecomp.jpg, which were originated on PD150 via a PYSER PNP-HG. The PNP-HG does not perform satisfactorily into a PD150 without replacement of the relay optics.

January 12th, 2005, 08:19 AM	#1242
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	I read this tread some time ago (and made a prototype), so I don't know if the things I’m suggesting are already debated, because I didn't read the whole tread again. Has anyone considered to take apart his LCD screen of the camera and turn the (transparent) thing upside-down and mirrored. This way you could see what you are filming the way it should be. Now the thing I'm working on: I'm making a new 35mm adapter only the projected image will be split in two and filmed by two (identical) cameras. My first tests (just a still frame) gave a very sharp picture after stitching them together on the PC. I'll try to do it with one mirror to split the screen and the cameras on their sides. If anyone is interested, I'll post some more (maybe the test frame) Maybe start a new tread? And if people have suggestions, please let me know. Thanks for this forum anyway, it helped me allot, Oscar

January 12th, 2005, 02:48 PM	#1243
Matt Champagne Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Iberia, LA Posts: 229	I've talked about this split image cameras...but i believe my idea was to serve a different function. I'd definatly be interested in what your trying to do, so maybe it might be a good idea to start a new thread. First off...how are you splitting the image? beam splitting prism? The one thing I'd be worried about if you are compiling images like this is if your frame rates will properly synch up...if not your going to get something akin to very serious interlacing.

January 12th, 2005, 04:47 PM	#1244
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	I post a new tread on this supject here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?threadid=37675

January 16th, 2005, 01:30 AM	#1245
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	For those who have the curiosity, the images agusmto1.jpg; agusmto3.jpg; agusmto4.jpg; agusmto8.jpg; bandinv2.jpg and firecomp.jpg have been posted at www.dvinfo.net/media/hart. "agusmto8.jpg" is an image of the whole improbable appliance.