P+S Technik Mini 35 Adaptor - What do you want to know?

Justin Chin · August 8th, 2002, 11:02 PM

Hey guys, sorry for my lack of posting a response. I've been way too busy. I've been shooting every day for the last month. The mini25 has been switched on for a minimum 6 hours a day and lately 10 hours a day.

jacques.mersereau:
You don't NEED a matte box, but having one would greatly help eliminate lens flares. You should get something that fits the 15mm rails since they are a part of the mini35 package.

The mini35 itself will run you about $8200 depending on what lens mount you choose. The PL is the most expensive.

A used set of lenses will run you anywhere from 5k to 10k and up. These are used prices, the latest and greatest will run you at least 11k for each prime. Get the fastest lenses you can find. DO NOT BUY anything that is over T2 unless it's a zoom. Unless you have a few HMIs in your kit. The mini35 soaks up light like anybody's business, but the results are worth it.

Charles:
Yes, I'm a hound for DoF. Can you blame me? But I guess that's another thread... ;)

I should do the test you mention Charles, but there is not enough hours in the day. (I have a 6am call tomorrow, and a 1.5 hour drive to the set)

I'll post this link again (examples of my DP work):

http://www.firisproductions.com/aascreenshots/aass.htm

Martin M:
I saw your link for the music video you shot with the PD-150. Great stuff! I wouldn't use the PD-150 with the mini35, though. It would simply be a waste. Mainly because you must go through the 150's glass. It will just affect your image quality. It's better to keep as pure as possible. The XL1 allows that.

claytonl:
The glass for 35mm cine lenses are that much better than those of even broadcast video lenses. And again Charles probably right when he says that the DoF has an affect on how you're seeing things. It just looks more natural because that's how you're used to seeing 35mm film and photographs.

Again, this gets into that aesthetic debate over what is better, the crisp look of reality with video, or the DoF of 35mm film. To each his own. I've made my decision hands down, and I will not shoot any other way. As a DP and Director I love the image that a shallow DoF can create. To me that is part of the art form.

Martin Munthe · August 12th, 2002, 10:13 AM

Justin,

we were going to use the mini35 and XL1 for my upcoming movie but one of our sponsors backed out and we had to tighten corners. That's why we are going with the PD150P solution. Our tests look great. Hopefully I get to use the mini35 on my next project. I'm also waiting to see what's coming up at P+S Technik. They have announced the mini35 on regular 2/3" ENG cameras and HD cameras. It would be great if you could put the adapter on a camera with a bigger CCD (and 16x9 CCD's).

In my opinion. Film is toast...

Jim Giberti · August 12th, 2002, 06:47 PM

In regard to the discussion of the ultimate cost of the P&S/XL1 setup. We've just finished some extensive side by side comparison of a weeks worth of testing using a 30k set of Zeiss Super Speed cini primes and using the Nikon mount with the P&S and a set of Nikon still lenses. So far, the results of the Nikons are optically favorable to the Zeiss. The images are killer, absolutely no vignetting...even on longer focal length zooms. Crisp and warm at the same time.

Of course the real advantage with the Nikons (in addition to the enormous cost difference) is the speed for $. Satisfied that we'll get comparable results, I just ordered a full set of Nikons fastest fully manual primes for under 3k. This is really an amazing crossover technology, and Guy and Mizell at ZGC are great people to work with. I can't reccomend this system enough for producers looking to aquire film quality using the mini DV format. It certainly rivals super 16mm.

Dylan Couper · August 13th, 2002, 12:45 AM

Where can I find more info about the Nikon mount P&S setup and Nikon lenses you got?
Thanks!

Paul Sedillo · August 13th, 2002, 04:11 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : Where can I find more info about the Nikon mount P&S setup and Nikon lenses you got?
Thanks! -->>>

Dylan,

Go to the following web site (a DVinfo.net sponsor):

http://www.zgc.com/index.htm

If you have further questions, you can call ZGC and ask for Mizel. I am sure he would be happy to answer any questions that you might have. I seem to recall ZGC offering a CD with footage from this system.

Jim Giberti · August 13th, 2002, 02:09 PM

Dylan asked:

<<Where can I find more info about the Nikon mount P&S setup and Nikon lenses you got?
Thanks!>>

Dylan, the Nikon mount is one of, I think, four that are offered witht he P&S. The system comes with their proprietary mount that can then accept any of the lens systems. The cost of the Nikon amount is $330...the PL mount is $175. I got both to test the optical performance of the Nikons. Being totally impressed, I'm keeping it as my primary sytem as well as the PL mount for the occaision where I may rent a set of cine primes...although at this point I don't see the advantage until I go to full matte box and follow focus assembly (and the strong urge to spend a mortgage on lenses).

Hey, by the way, Dylan meet Paul. Paul meet Dylan. Is it coincidental that you guys both got some of my Canon gear from my transition?

Paul Sedillo · August 13th, 2002, 02:23 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by imagine40 : Dylan asked:

<<Where can I find more info about the Nikon mount P&S setup and Nikon lenses you got?
Thanks!>>

Hey, by the way, Dylan meet Paul. Paul meet Dylan. Is it coincidental that you guys both got some of my Canon gear from my transition? -->>>

Jim,

I think that it was the alignment of the moon and stars. So you had more stuff for sale? I guess I should have asked!

Jim Giberti · August 13th, 2002, 02:32 PM

<<So you had more stuff for sale? I guess I should have asked!>>

Just the 16x lens.

Dylan Couper · August 13th, 2002, 02:45 PM

What up Paul? ;)

Anyway, of the available lenses/mounts for the P&L, do you think the Nikon would be the best choice in terms of bang for the buck? I see it has a Canon EF mount as well.

Dylan Couper · August 13th, 2002, 03:00 PM

Oh, in case anyone won the lottery recently...
here's a set of 5 Arri PL lenses on Ebay for about $15k.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1373090901

Jim Giberti · August 13th, 2002, 03:57 PM

<< of the available lenses/mounts for the P&L, do you think the Nikon would be the best choice in terms of bang for the buck? I see it has a Canon EF mount as well.>>

In my dialogue with Guy (Guru of the P&S) as well as Mizell, we determined that there were some abberation/vignetting with the Canon glass that had been encountered and that Nikon lenses were in fact optically equivilent to the big buck cine primes. The box just arrived with my Nikon 24mm, 35, 50 and 85. 1.2 to 1.4s, which even given the difference of T vs F stop...should be as fast as the Zeiss Super Speeds I shot with. I'm heading back to the farm to start shooting with these bad boys. This really is fun.

Then Dylan wrote:

<<in case anyone won the lottery recently...
here's a set of 5 Arri PL lenses on Ebay for about $15k.>>

I'm so glad I tested the Nikons, because this was the range I was hoping to find a reasonable set of primes for. I feel better now, although that's a good price depending on the glass (I haven't checked them out yet), and eventually....

Dylan Couper · August 14th, 2002, 09:10 PM

Would you happen to have a link to where I can check out more about the Nikon lenses?

Thanks!

Charles Papert · August 14th, 2002, 10:00 PM

Hi imagine (what can we call you, mate?)

I'm very curious to hear how you get along working with those still lenses in terms of physically pulling focus etc. Also wondering if you will experience breathing (image magnification when focusing). Please let us know how it works out.

Jim Giberti · August 15th, 2002, 09:02 AM

<<Hi imagine (what can we call you, mate?)>>

Hi Charles...I'm Jim Giberti from the Imagination Company. If I knew how to change my set up I'd become public ;)

<<I'm very curious to hear how you get along working with those still lenses in terms of physically pulling focus etc. Also wondering if you will experience breathing (image magnification when focusing). Please let us know how it works out.>>

Obviously there are some physical compromises between a Nikon and Cooke S4, but keeping this whole thing within the realm of $$ reality for day to day usage is where the Nikon thing is great. Not having the barrels marked like a cine prime and not having a focus ring that will handle a follow focus are the issues...but like anything else, you work around them and accept tha you don't have the full range of film aquisition with the system. A major issue was upgrading to the B&W CRT viewfinder at the same time as the P&S. There's no way that the existing color VF can resolve detail necessary pull good focus (especially with longer lenses) and the associated depth of focus issues inherent with the shallow DOF availabl witht his system and the lenses.

So far no breathing that I've noticed, but I won't get a chance to really work with them untl this weekend when I plan to shoot a lot of tests.

Chris Hurd · August 15th, 2002, 09:27 AM

Jim, I've changed your user name to Jim Giberti. Hope this helps,

August 8th, 2002, 11:02 PM	#16
Justin Chin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 227	Hey guys, sorry for my lack of posting a response. I've been way too busy. I've been shooting every day for the last month. The mini25 has been switched on for a minimum 6 hours a day and lately 10 hours a day. jacques.mersereau: You don't NEED a matte box, but having one would greatly help eliminate lens flares. You should get something that fits the 15mm rails since they are a part of the mini35 package. The mini35 itself will run you about $8200 depending on what lens mount you choose. The PL is the most expensive. A used set of lenses will run you anywhere from 5k to 10k and up. These are used prices, the latest and greatest will run you at least 11k for each prime. Get the fastest lenses you can find. DO NOT BUY anything that is over T2 unless it's a zoom. Unless you have a few HMIs in your kit. The mini35 soaks up light like anybody's business, but the results are worth it. Charles: Yes, I'm a hound for DoF. Can you blame me? But I guess that's another thread... ;) I should do the test you mention Charles, but there is not enough hours in the day. (I have a 6am call tomorrow, and a 1.5 hour drive to the set) I'll post this link again (examples of my DP work): http://www.firisproductions.com/aascreenshots/aass.htm Martin M: I saw your link for the music video you shot with the PD-150. Great stuff! I wouldn't use the PD-150 with the mini35, though. It would simply be a waste. Mainly because you must go through the 150's glass. It will just affect your image quality. It's better to keep as pure as possible. The XL1 allows that. claytonl: The glass for 35mm cine lenses are that much better than those of even broadcast video lenses. And again Charles probably right when he says that the DoF has an affect on how you're seeing things. It just looks more natural because that's how you're used to seeing 35mm film and photographs. Again, this gets into that aesthetic debate over what is better, the crisp look of reality with video, or the DoF of 35mm film. To each his own. I've made my decision hands down, and I will not shoot any other way. As a DP and Director I love the image that a shallow DoF can create. To me that is part of the art form. __________________ justin www.monsterrocket.com Filmmaker \| Cinematographer

August 12th, 2002, 10:13 AM	#17
Martin Munthe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 331	Justin, we were going to use the mini35 and XL1 for my upcoming movie but one of our sponsors backed out and we had to tighten corners. That's why we are going with the PD150P solution. Our tests look great. Hopefully I get to use the mini35 on my next project. I'm also waiting to see what's coming up at P+S Technik. They have announced the mini35 on regular 2/3" ENG cameras and HD cameras. It would be great if you could put the adapter on a camera with a bigger CCD (and 16x9 CCD's). In my opinion. Film is toast... __________________ Martin Munthe VFX Supervisor/DP/Director

August 12th, 2002, 06:47 PM	#18
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	Still lenses with the P&S In regard to the discussion of the ultimate cost of the P&S/XL1 setup. We've just finished some extensive side by side comparison of a weeks worth of testing using a 30k set of Zeiss Super Speed cini primes and using the Nikon mount with the P&S and a set of Nikon still lenses. So far, the results of the Nikons are optically favorable to the Zeiss. The images are killer, absolutely no vignetting...even on longer focal length zooms. Crisp and warm at the same time. Of course the real advantage with the Nikons (in addition to the enormous cost difference) is the speed for $. Satisfied that we'll get comparable results, I just ordered a full set of Nikons fastest fully manual primes for under 3k. This is really an amazing crossover technology, and Guy and Mizell at ZGC are great people to work with. I can't reccomend this system enough for producers looking to aquire film quality using the mini DV format. It certainly rivals super 16mm.

August 13th, 2002, 04:11 AM	#20
Paul Sedillo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 607	<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : Where can I find more info about the Nikon mount P&S setup and Nikon lenses you got? Thanks! -->>> Dylan, Go to the following web site (a DVinfo.net sponsor): http://www.zgc.com/index.htm If you have further questions, you can call ZGC and ask for Mizel. I am sure he would be happy to answer any questions that you might have. I seem to recall ZGC offering a CD with footage from this system. __________________ Paul Sedillo Image::Studio http://www.image-studio.com Houston, Texas

August 13th, 2002, 02:23 PM	#22
Paul Sedillo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 607	<<<-- Originally posted by imagine40 : Dylan asked: <<Where can I find more info about the Nikon mount P&S setup and Nikon lenses you got? Thanks!>> Hey, by the way, Dylan meet Paul. Paul meet Dylan. Is it coincidental that you guys both got some of my Canon gear from my transition? -->>> Jim, I think that it was the alignment of the moon and stars. So you had more stuff for sale? I guess I should have asked! __________________ Paul Sedillo Image::Studio http://www.image-studio.com Houston, Texas

August 13th, 2002, 12:45 AM	#19
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Where can I find more info about the Nikon mount P&S setup and Nikon lenses you got? Thanks!

August 13th, 2002, 02:09 PM	#21
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	Dylan asked: <<Where can I find more info about the Nikon mount P&S setup and Nikon lenses you got? Thanks!>> Dylan, the Nikon mount is one of, I think, four that are offered witht he P&S. The system comes with their proprietary mount that can then accept any of the lens systems. The cost of the Nikon amount is $330...the PL mount is $175. I got both to test the optical performance of the Nikons. Being totally impressed, I'm keeping it as my primary sytem as well as the PL mount for the occaision where I may rent a set of cine primes...although at this point I don't see the advantage until I go to full matte box and follow focus assembly (and the strong urge to spend a mortgage on lenses). Hey, by the way, Dylan meet Paul. Paul meet Dylan. Is it coincidental that you guys both got some of my Canon gear from my transition?

August 13th, 2002, 02:32 PM	#23
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	<<So you had more stuff for sale? I guess I should have asked!>> Just the 16x lens.

August 13th, 2002, 02:45 PM	#24
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	What up Paul? ;) Anyway, of the available lenses/mounts for the P&L, do you think the Nikon would be the best choice in terms of bang for the buck? I see it has a Canon EF mount as well.

August 13th, 2002, 03:00 PM	#25
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Oh, in case anyone won the lottery recently... here's a set of 5 Arri PL lenses on Ebay for about $15k. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1373090901

August 13th, 2002, 03:57 PM	#26
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	<< of the available lenses/mounts for the P&L, do you think the Nikon would be the best choice in terms of bang for the buck? I see it has a Canon EF mount as well.>> In my dialogue with Guy (Guru of the P&S) as well as Mizell, we determined that there were some abberation/vignetting with the Canon glass that had been encountered and that Nikon lenses were in fact optically equivilent to the big buck cine primes. The box just arrived with my Nikon 24mm, 35, 50 and 85. 1.2 to 1.4s, which even given the difference of T vs F stop...should be as fast as the Zeiss Super Speeds I shot with. I'm heading back to the farm to start shooting with these bad boys. This really is fun. Then Dylan wrote: <<in case anyone won the lottery recently... here's a set of 5 Arri PL lenses on Ebay for about $15k.>> I'm so glad I tested the Nikons, because this was the range I was hoping to find a reasonable set of primes for. I feel better now, although that's a good price depending on the glass (I haven't checked them out yet), and eventually....

August 14th, 2002, 09:10 PM	#27
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Would you happen to have a link to where I can check out more about the Nikon lenses? Thanks!

August 14th, 2002, 10:00 PM	#28
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Hi imagine (what can we call you, mate?) I'm very curious to hear how you get along working with those still lenses in terms of physically pulling focus etc. Also wondering if you will experience breathing (image magnification when focusing). Please let us know how it works out. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

August 15th, 2002, 09:02 AM	#29
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	<<Hi imagine (what can we call you, mate?)>> Hi Charles...I'm Jim Giberti from the Imagination Company. If I knew how to change my set up I'd become public ;) <<I'm very curious to hear how you get along working with those still lenses in terms of physically pulling focus etc. Also wondering if you will experience breathing (image magnification when focusing). Please let us know how it works out.>> Obviously there are some physical compromises between a Nikon and Cooke S4, but keeping this whole thing within the realm of $$ reality for day to day usage is where the Nikon thing is great. Not having the barrels marked like a cine prime and not having a focus ring that will handle a follow focus are the issues...but like anything else, you work around them and accept tha you don't have the full range of film aquisition with the system. A major issue was upgrading to the B&W CRT viewfinder at the same time as the P&S. There's no way that the existing color VF can resolve detail necessary pull good focus (especially with longer lenses) and the associated depth of focus issues inherent with the shallow DOF availabl witht his system and the lenses. So far no breathing that I've noticed, but I won't get a chance to really work with them untl this weekend when I plan to shoot a lot of tests.

August 15th, 2002, 09:27 AM	#30
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Jim, I've changed your user name to Jim Giberti. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!