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Old January 23rd, 2004, 04:22 PM   #121
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Re: GG

<<<-- Originally posted by Anders Floe : Couldn't we use a normal piece of glass and wax it with microcrystalline wax to get almost the same effect? Just an idea. -->>>

Anders,

do you have any links to that "microcrystaline wax" i have no idea what it is?

filip
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Old January 23rd, 2004, 05:09 PM   #122
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Micro crystalline wax

Hi, Filip

There are many different kinds of micro crystalline wax - Here is one : Micro Crystalline Wax, white color, 140mp is used for preventing bubbles and mottling defects in candles. Its melt point is very high. It is white color too for use with paraffin or any other wax.

http://www.capricornslair.com/ligmiccryswa.html

Another different one :

http://www.spwax.com/spparaff.htm

I really have no idea if it might work, but if the wax creates a fine layer of micro crystalline on the surface - it could work!
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Old January 23rd, 2004, 08:47 PM   #123
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Dean

The apo triplet the author is talking about is mainly used for astrophotography and so the range of wavelengths they are looking at extend beyond the visible spectrum.

the violet bloom they are talking about is in the UV spectrum so is of no concert to us.
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Old January 23rd, 2004, 09:45 PM   #124
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According to scientific sources on the web the CCD acts differently than an eye. It specifically says that the chroma problem that apochromatic fix with visable color of violet and on into the UV range is often a factor for CCD sensors and image capturing devices.

I'll send the link soon.

-Brett
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Old January 25th, 2004, 08:59 PM   #125
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hey louis... you've been absent from this forum for quite a while now... how about them holographic screens?

I remember the longest time ago on the agus thread there was talk of having actual plans... seems that topic dwindled to nothing... seems like that would be the best thing to really work on to jump start some real progress again around here...

sorry, it just seems like nothing's really gone anywhere for the last 3 weeks or so
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Old January 25th, 2004, 09:07 PM   #126
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Hey Nat.....

I have been wondering the same thing? I guess with the holidays and such people have been doing other things. I still have questions as everyone does about how to keep the dust or particles from showing up on a static capture screen. Maybe this is a problem?
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Old January 25th, 2004, 09:23 PM   #127
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So, now that we know what kind of GG the movietube use, is anyone willing to try to replicate it ?

Seens like the whole project is "stuck", and too many theorical information, but still we dont have any good results, about the static method, the only one that has good results is the Daniel adapter, which's images kick ass BTW.

So, who is really working in building it ?
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Old January 26th, 2004, 05:20 AM   #128
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Keeping the static "ground glass" clean is always going to be the draw back to a design using a static ground glass.

Probably the best and easiest way to keep it clean is to isolate it in its own clean chamber.

Just as in the example of lets say three round filters stacked on top of each other. If they are first spotlessly cleaned and then threaded on top of each other the center filter is unlikely to ever get dirty.

When it comes to the design of our adapters there are any number of places we can choose to put the front clear and rear clear barrier on both sides of our ground glass. One thing to keep in mind though. Dont put either clear barrier too close to the focal point on the ground glass other wise when the barrier itself gets dirty your likely to see the dirt (slightly out of focus) in your shot. Well need to eye ball it untill the glass barriers are far enough away that dirt will be completely out of focus and unseen. Its been awhile since I tested this but as I remember it it wasnt but a inch or so. I'll try and check it again soon.

If you try to do this method of keeping your ground glass clean remember to allow room for it in your design.

Brett Erskine
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Old January 26th, 2004, 06:21 AM   #129
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I would like to share some of my links with everyone. While some will help you solve some of the problems out there others may only serve as a steping stone to a final solution.


GROUND GLASS and ALTERNATVES

(Bosscreens Grainless Glass)
http://www.bromwellmarketing.com/boards.htm

(Prices for Bosscreens)
http://www.bromwellmarketing.com/prices/lenses.htm

(Ground Glass Substitutes)
http://lists.kjsl.com/pipermail/acg/2003-October/000639.html

(Bosscreens)
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.schoon.de/bosscreen/bosscreen.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3DBosscreen%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG

(Edmunds Optics - Different Types of Ground Glass)
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Browse.cfm?catid=453





DIAOPTERS, MACROS, ACHROMATS and APOCHROMATS

(Tech Spec™ Achromatic Lenses)
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=1749

(Tech Spec™ Diffraction Limited Large Achromats)
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=1501

(Commercial Quality Positive Achromatic Lenses)
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=2401

(Century Optics Diopters)
http://www.centuryoptics.com/products/broadcast/achromatic_diopters/

(OptoSigma Percision Optics and Hardware)
http://www.optosigma.com/miva/merchant.mv

(Cheap/Professional Grade Achromat, doublet, triplet, prisms, etc.)
http://www.surplusshed.com/search.cfm





PRISMS and IMAGE FLIPABLE LCD's

(Tech Spec™ Schmidt Prisms)
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/DisplayProduct.cfm?Productid=2430

(Technically Explaination of Different Types of Prisms)
http://www.tecplusplus.de/ManualLu/prisms.htm

(Technically Explaination of Different Types of Prisms - Website 2)
http://topcontechnotes.home.att.net/viewingsystem/page8.html

(OptoSigma Percision Optics and Hardware)
http://www.optosigma.com/miva/merchant.mv

(Dove Prism)
http://www.doveprism.com/

(Cheap/Professional Grade Achromat, doublet, triplet, prisms, etc.)
http://www.surplusshed.com/search.cfm






OTHER

(Flange Focal Distance Table)
http://www.gregssandbox.com/gtech/filmfacts/flange.htm

(C-Mount Fine Thread Focus Tube)
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=1678

(MovieTube - Commercial contender to P+S Technik Mini35)
http://www.movietube.com/

(Mesmerizier - Rear lens mounted anamorphic optical system)
http://www.kishoptics.com/mesmerizer-mini.html

(Relay Lens Manuel Iris)
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=1966

(Aspherically Contoured Fresnel Lenses)
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/DisplayProduct.cfm?Productid=2039



Brett Erskine
Director of Photography
Premiere Visions
1761 W. La Palma Ave., Suite #302
Anaheim, CA 92801
www.CinematographerReels.com
BErskine@CinematographerReels.com
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Old January 26th, 2004, 08:29 AM   #130
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<<<-- Originally posted by Agus Casse :

So, who is really working in building it ? -->>>

hi agus,

i know that all of you saw the alain project, which is marvelous.
i'm WAITING for very small GG, made by optician and he promised to make it (much) less then 3microns. everything else is prepared - pentaprism, and prism for inverting the picture.
(actually i have two different ideas with different prisms, how to solve the upside down problem, but - again i'm waiting for the parts.)

i can bet that many people are also waiting for certain parts - probably louis feng is also working on his static project...

daniel moloko is probably very busy - and there is no info from him about the proper GG from zenit...


i tested tons of different materials for GG but the grain is always visible.

i checked the HUGE range of zenits, to find grainless GG - but no succes. (zenit E, zenit B, zenit B3, zenit TTL("5"), zenit TTL ("3")... maybe there IS GG on some of that models, but i didn't find it)
i checked also "peephole" with small rounded screen, but still the same - grain!
..etc.

if i may say that each defeat leads us to the success - we are VERY close to the final stage!

keep AGUSING!!!!!
no surrender!
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Old January 26th, 2004, 11:14 AM   #131
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I've been working on a couple different designs myself, but just don't have the money to put into Doing It Right. Things do look promising, but it's slow going for me.
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Old January 26th, 2004, 01:56 PM   #132
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where I'm at....

I've got the DVX and I'm stuck on the diopter problem. don't have the cash yet for the glass.
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Old January 26th, 2004, 02:36 PM   #133
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DVX

I'm with you Dean,
There might be some power changes to the Achromatic diopters for the DVX to be used with 35mm motion picture lenses but to use the 3.5 and 2 will work fine with still lenses...I will keep you posted or have a look at

http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1070228577;start=0
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Old January 26th, 2004, 05:17 PM   #134
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A NEW RE-THINK

Guys i know, alot of work has been done about flipping the image with prisms etc..

But i've been thinking, and have asked my self :

Is is REALLY nesessary to flip the image?

i think that this question is really important as this will DIRECTLY effect the entire project:

Basically i think its fair to say that we/ everyone thus far have automatically ASSUMED that it was really required to flip the image in camera so to speak.

I think you guys should really re-evaluate the need for flipping as opposed to post flipping, and think about the benifits, no flipping = simpler design , fewer parts, better image quality.

I mean you gonna be editing at some point right so flipping an image in post is no worries really.

Yes, yes i know i advocated in another post iabout using security/ medical cams but thats not really practical, not for what you guys are doing anyway!


Anyway Guys, i'm sorry if this comment is not of value or constructive/ and or if this issue has all ready been raised.

Just my small view.
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Old January 26th, 2004, 07:12 PM   #135
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Anhar.....

I agree about that- a 7" LCD that will do the flip and invert is good enough while shooting. They are about $200 or so. It would be nice to get one that is color correct and has good clarity - that might run more.
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