4:4:4 12-bit Uncompressed DVX100 - Page 30 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Alternative Imaging Methods

Alternative Imaging Methods
DV Info Net is the birthplace of all 35mm adapters.


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 1st, 2004, 01:44 AM   #436
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 434
Awesome... Juan, looking at your raw footage always reminds me of the images sent back by the Mars probes from the 70s. Maybe once you figure out the noise problem you should have a "Mars Lander" button that puts it back in for crazy people like me. :)
Ben Syverson is offline  
Old May 1st, 2004, 02:12 AM   #437
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 27
Great image! At least in terms of quality. The dutched cinema is reminding me of the batman series.

The RGB channels seem to be lining up much better. Is that because of the clock?

And why is the image now 775x496? It seems to vary, especially in X.
Peter Plevritis is offline  
Old May 1st, 2004, 02:39 AM   #438
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 479
The lining up is not because of the clock directly, but rather indirectly, because the edges are crisper so I can line them up better in photoshop.

Also, the varying size is just my shaky photoshop hand when selecting the image portion to crop. :)

CLIP:

Ok, so i just captured a ~3 second clip. Since you wanted separate R,G,B files, i'm trying to upload the raw R,G,B files out of the camera, but since these images contain dummy pixels(they look like film strips) each one is 114MB only for 3 seconds! That's 342MB for 3 RGB seconds with the dummy bits.

Anyway, my cable modem is down to a crawl, so i'll leave it running and post here when(if?) it's done.
The best solution though is to modify my program so it spits R,G,B frames out as an option, but i'll do it tomorrow....too late. :)

In any case, we're looking at ~150MB for 3 seconds without the dummy bits. The one pitfall here is that we are forced to use 16-bit images when we are only using 10-bits(or 12). Maybe it is time to move over to Cineon.

Juan
Juan P. Pertierra is offline  
Old May 1st, 2004, 02:44 AM   #439
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 434
No way! Capture the images to raw 10bit and then have a program that can convert the raw images to TIFF, TGA, Cineon, JPEG, QuickTime, whatever people want. That way you use the absolute minimum disk space as you're capturing, and you give people flexibility in outputing...

Capturing straight to 10bit linear Cineons is a surefire way to make your wonderful progress go to waste...

- ben
Ben Syverson is offline  
Old May 1st, 2004, 01:14 PM   #440
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 479
I thought Cineon could do RGB uncompressed linear 10-bit/12-bit at any res? Why would my progress go to waste?

Update:
I've been trying to upload the files but no success...each one is to take about 2hrs over my home connection but it always gets interrupted, so i am going to try and upload them using my connection at work today...

Juan
Juan P. Pertierra is offline  
Old May 1st, 2004, 03:22 PM   #441
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 479
WOW!

ok, i'm no video specialist but i am supremely amazed.

This is a (approximately) 720P HD version of the last frame i posted, up-rezzed with PhotoZoom pro(S-spline) but other than that completely uncorrected(i.e. color still looks weird). I used the 'soft' photo setting which minimizes sharpening. I have a huge worklight lighting the scene, so the edge of the silver case is clipping the CCD's in the raw footage, but in the DV footage the entire silver case, white clothing and half of the oil box is clipped.

S-Spline understandably has a lot of trouble with the speckles, because it thinks they are details and they endup looking worse, but check out the areas that are speckle-free...wow! Since the original image is a strange aspect ratio, it resized to 1240x794. Specially details like the mobil-1 logo and the edges of the TV look pretty darn near perfect.

http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~pertierr/cap6_HD.tif
Juan P. Pertierra is offline  
Old May 1st, 2004, 05:49 PM   #442
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 434
Cineon technically can store uncompressed linear 10bit data. But I don't know of a single application that would be able to open such a file. If you go that route, be prepared to have people shrug and walk away...

- ben
Ben Syverson is offline  
Old May 1st, 2004, 05:53 PM   #443
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 479
Hmm interesting...all the apps i use, Apple Shake, FCP and Photoshop open cineon files. So, does Adobe AfterEffects/Premiere or Vegas not handle them?

I'm only asking because I did some tests and indeed it can store the exact same uncompressed information but with 10-bit or 12-bit packed data, reducing the file size by at least 25%, yet mantaining the exact same data as a 16-bit TIFF or RAW file.

Cheers,
Juan
Juan P. Pertierra is offline  
Old May 1st, 2004, 05:55 PM   #444
Space Hipster
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 1,508
After Effect yes, Vegas, no (unless added in v5), Premiere no, Premiere Pro maybe.
__________________
stephen v2
www.insaturnsrings.com
Stephen van Vuuren is offline  
Old May 1st, 2004, 06:06 PM   #445
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 479
Thanks Stephen...i guess all of this can be made an option. Cineon will keep the same quality but will allow to get more video on the drive.

Unless there is another widely used standard that allows 10/12bpc depths...i'd like to keep it an option for those who have software that can handle it.

CLIPS:
The raw 'film strips' are being uploaded, the RED channel is already uploaded. The other two should be done in under 2 hours. To open the raw files, open the file in photoshop CS as a RAW file, using the following settings:
Width:1001
Height:59900
Depth:16-bit
Byte Order:Mac
Header Size:800
Click OK, it will tell you the selected image is smaller than the file, yadda yadda(always does this), click OK again.

Remember that the blue images are flipped horizontally, and as of this post only the RED is up:

http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~pertierr/R_OUT16.raw
http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~pertierr/G_OUT16.raw
http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~pertierr/B_OUT16.raw

Juan
Juan P. Pertierra is offline  
Old May 1st, 2004, 06:06 PM   #446
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 434
Let me get this straight -- Shake, FCP and PS opened 10bit linear Cineons? I would be shocked to hear that they all supported an entirely unused format -- 99.999% of all Cineon files are 10bit log, since that's how they come out of the film scanner, and that's how they go to the film recorder...

The reality is that Cineon in general is just not supported in many applications, and I think it doesn't make sense for an application such as this... I still think the best route is to record raw 10/12 bit files, and provide a conversion app. That way you don't need to do any processing on the data as you write it to disk...

- ben
Ben Syverson is offline  
Old May 1st, 2004, 06:09 PM   #447
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 479
That's a good suggestion, Ben...just record packed 36-bit data to maximize disk usage, and then provide an app that decodes it just like i've been doing.

My current final design does everything on the fly, but i hadn't considered that if everything is decoded into 16-bit RGB files for NLE instead of 12-bit files, there is a lot of valuable unused space on the drive....hmmm.
Juan P. Pertierra is offline  
Old May 1st, 2004, 07:09 PM   #448
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 479
All R,G,B raw frame strips have been uploaded at the links above.
Juan P. Pertierra is offline  
Old May 2nd, 2004, 09:07 PM   #449
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 479
W00T W00T!

O happy day.

I have gotten rid of the speckles!

Now taking suggestions for test scenes/clips.

It was indeed noise in the lines as predicted a few messages ago, and it was solved with the use of some coupling capacitors.

Juan
Juan P. Pertierra is offline  
Old May 2nd, 2004, 09:36 PM   #450
New Boot
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 5
Great work Juan! How about posting a few noise free stills? It would be nice to see some outside shots.
__________________
The enemy of art is the absence of limitations.

-Orson Welles
Isaac Brody is offline  
Closed Thread

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Alternative Imaging Methods

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:36 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network