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Old March 13th, 2004, 02:22 PM   #556
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Jonathon Wilson

I have done it whit 9 micro bryte capsule, that is just a bit smaller. after that there is something call I think metal oxyde ,it's a red stuff but this is for polishing and I haven't been able to get a even surface whit it , I start to have some transparent spot, so no good.

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Old March 13th, 2004, 04:00 PM   #557
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Adapter pics up

For anyone interested, I've got some pics and shots of my adapter available at:

http://home.austin.rr.com/aqua99/adapter/

First attempt, but given my hobbyist-only level at this point... it's enough to get me started :)
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Old March 13th, 2004, 04:24 PM   #558
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Jonathon, thanks for the very detailed photos and description!

Question: why is there a distance between your condenser and the ground glass? It seems that the other pointed that the condensor should be put directly next to the ground glass?..
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Old March 13th, 2004, 04:33 PM   #559
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Yeah - the only reason there's any distance is because I wanted everything to be 'removable' so that I could clean either side of the ground glass and condensor. There is only the necessary distance between the lens and the condensor to facilitate some threaded mounting. I think the total distance is maybe 1mm or less. I tried some different schemes and very quickly (like 3-5mm) I saw all kinds of spherical distortion in my image as the condensor moved too far from the GG. You want them as close as possible.
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Old March 13th, 2004, 08:36 PM   #560
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Jonathon, your setup looks good and the depth of field results are impressive. I'm curious to see the setup with a newer, higher resolution camera. It looks like the 45mm focal length diffuses well. The bottom pics of the white post show a little barrel distortion, but not too much... much less than I expected from such a short lens. My question is... how much did the condenser lens diffuse the image (how big is the diameter of the diffused image)? Does it seem to diffuse an image larger than 44mm (the minimum image diameter to record a 36x24mm frame) or does that seem to be the limit of the 35mm lens?
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Old March 13th, 2004, 09:05 PM   #561
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Nicholi Brossia:

On the condensor, it's very difficult to tell how 'big' the image is... easy enough on the GG, but the second you put the condensor in front of it, when you look with your eye, you pretty much just see a big bright image all the way to the edges of the lens. If I zoom my camcorder all the way back, I certainly get vignetting - but I'm able to actually see the 'holder' of my condensor, so this is obviously too far back.

If/when I make a second adapter, I would get a larger diameter condensor (43mm is absolute minimum - a 50-ish would be better). I would also use a PCX, which is completely flat on one side, and do my best to get it mounted just shy of contact with the GG.

The bottom pics of the post weren't shot with the 35mm - they were shot with the telephoto, and I actually believe I had zoomed all the way in to 200mm. I don't see the barrel distortion, and I wouldn't expect it with a 200mm lens - You're absolutely right on the 35mm lens - I'd think that would bend like crazy on the edges. I'll have to do some more tests. with straight lines.

I'm nervous as I think about this that I may have bumped my zoom somehow. I had focused on a 36x24 rectangle prior to putting the ground glass and condensor in place, but if my lens is only 43mm - it doesn't seem possible that I could be showing a 36x24mm rectangle (43.6mm diameter). I must have zoomed by accident. Well - more tests - and all the more reason for a larger-diameter condensor.

Yes, I'd like to see the setup on a newer, higher res camera too!! (who knows, maybe for Xmas, I can ask Santa...)
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Old March 13th, 2004, 11:16 PM   #562
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Busy Day

Jonathon,
What camera are you using? I'm curious for comparison. The shots look good. I can see the 1000 grit grain though. Your results look very similar to mine. (except your condenser is better than mine and your Alsu35 adapter looks way better!) I hope to get some images of my own work up soon but i keep messing with the design(s). I've got three different adapters in various stages of completion. (Agus35PRO, Aldu35 and vertical mount???)

I spent today completing and testing a vertical mount adapter using an old Minolta SLR body. (like the one used to shoot Marla) I pulled the top cover and gutted it. I had hoped to be able to use the roof pentaprism to get a completely correct oriented image but the clear aperture was just too small for my camera to zoom in on and still be in macro focus range. I had to punt and go for the vertical mount. I am using the minolta's stock condenser which happens to be ground on one side. i had to loose the plastic fresnel element because it had the anoying focus spot in my images . Without the fresnel, i noticed the typical central hotspot though not as pronounced as without any condenser at all . To fix this, I took my 50 mm DCX condenser lens I got from www.surplusshack(no idea on the F.L. but its real thin) and mounted it into an empty 52mm filter ring. I mounted this directly to the video camera. I would love to have a rectangular plano convex (38mm x 26mm F.L. 44mm) to mount directly under the stock Minolta rect. PVX but couldn't find one (anyone know where to get one? I've looked everywhere). I was surprised when I started testing that having the DCX so far from the GG and so close to my camcorder lens still gave me a fairly even image. in fact, with a fast lens (50mm 1:1.4), the hotspotting/vignetting was gone. My image is also correctly oriented vertically but Left and Right are reversed. This is better than dealing with an upside down image but panning is going to take some practice.
That's it for now. I'll put more details and some pics on my website when I get the chance. Joe
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Old March 14th, 2004, 12:04 AM   #563
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Well, erm... umm... (shuffles feet), believe it or not, all I've got at the moment is a JVC GR-AXM220 VHS-C Camcorder. Analog, baby. A soccer mom's dream. And for now, my hobby camera.

Plus - I have to deal with analog capture through a composite signal (ouch). Of course, the whole spirit of this idea is to make do with what we've got. Thankfully, I've got some pretty decent avisynth scripts that I use in post, that help somewhat.

I will certainly upgrade - which was a large motivation for trying to keep my adapter as flexible as possible, so that I could use it with some future camera.

Thanks for the nice words -- yeah, my ground glass needs some serious work. I'm going to order some 3-micron grit, and do a new pass, and see if I can improve that somewhat.
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Old March 14th, 2004, 12:21 AM   #564
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Joe,

Did you have any difficulty mounting the condenser in your empty 52mm ring? (Was that a ring swiped from a UV filter or something?). I thought about going this way, but was worried about getting a good fit between the lens and the ring...

On the rectangular PCX, I've got one that was in my AE-1 - but the focal length (at rough measurement) is about 160mm. I'm not convinced that the focal length has a huge effect as long as its pretty long. You might look for camera parts - I remember doing this and finding a few odd places that supposedly had replacement fresnels and condensors for my old Canon.

Like you, I'm surprised you're having success with a long distance between the condensor and the gg. I had mucho troubles once I got more than a few mm away. If you get close enough to the cam, the condensor actually starts acting like another macro, just giving magnification at very close range... and I don't see how it gathers much lost light from the gg, but you may have found something new that works for you -
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Old March 14th, 2004, 06:29 AM   #565
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Johnathon - helpful hints

Johnathon-
Great setup. I agree with the revisions you plan on your design. If you do so we will end up having very similar designs. I'll be able to share mine with you soon. Another thing I would recomend after you get your finer aluminum oxide and PCX lens would be to ditch the GG and grind the flat (plano) surface of the ground glass. Another thing is make sure you get a PCX with a F1 or slightly longer FL. DONT go below F1 otherwise you'll get spherical distortion. If you cant find the FL you want then use two PCX lenses (one on each side of the GG) with two times long focal length for each lens. They will work together to shorten the FL to where you want (ie. fresnel & condenser in a SLR).

Well Im glad the mystery is over. Now all that is left is the prisms. I'll let you guys figure that one out. I want to finally get back to shooting!

P.S. Cylinder Lens = Cheap/Same Quality Homemade Anamorphic Lens Attachment (2.35 and 16X9).

Also anyone shot with the Nu-View 3D system? I didnt know it but its been out for a few years. I know your not going to believe me but I came up with the exact same idea/design a year ago and was hoping to market it then the other day I stumbled acrossed it on the net. Oh well. There goes that business opporunity. Thats alright. I have a few more ideas I've been saving. Anyone have some $$$? ;-)

-Brett Erskine
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Old March 14th, 2004, 08:11 AM   #566
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<<<-- Originally posted by Jonathon Wilson : Joe,

Did you have any difficulty mounting the condenser in your empty 52mm ring? (Was that a ring swiped from a UV filter or something?). I thought about going this way, but was worried about getting a good fit between the lens and the ring... -->>>


No problem at all. I found that the 50mm DCX fit perfectly into the 52mm adapter ring. It was a tiften skylight with a threaded filter holder (not snap ring) I used my homemade filter tool to disassemble for grinding. In fact, the ring was big enough to fit my GG plus a thin PCX.(Aldu35 version) So now I know that a 52mm ring will hold a 50mm lens. i wonder if that holds true for all sizes? (72mm ring/70mm lens etc.) You could assemble your adapter using filter rings. Anyone know a source for empty filter rings? I hate spending $12 for ea.


<<<-- Originally posted by Jonathon Wilson : On the rectangular PCX, I've got one that was in my AE-1 - but the focal length (at rough measurement) is about 160mm. I'm not convinced that the focal length has a huge effect as long as its pretty long. You might look for camera parts - I remember doing this and finding a few odd places that supposedly had replacement fresnels and condensors for my old Canon.-->>>


Does your Canon rectangular PCX have a ground side? I'm looking for one without the grinding as I don't want to have two ground surfaces in the system. (do i?) This was my first time taking an SLR apart and so I only know what is in the Minolta. Do all SLRs use the same configuration? (Lens - Mirror - fresnel w/ focus spot - PCX with GG surface - roof pentaprism - eyepiece lense) Is there a model out there that doesn't have GG on the PVX? Anyone?


<<<-- Originally posted by Jonathon Wilson :
Like you, I'm surprised you're having success with a long distance between the condensor and the gg. I had mucho troubles once I got more than a few mm away. If you get close enough to the cam, the condensor actually starts acting like another macro, just giving magnification at very close range... and I don't see how it gathers much lost light from the gg, but you may have found something new that works for you - -->>>


I think I got away with using the DCX close to the cam lens because most of the image correction was happening through the stock PCX in the minolta. I think the DCX just took the place of the missing fresnel from the original system. I believe you had a problem because your condenser is a lot thicker than mine. I wish I could tell you what the F.L. is on my DCX. How do you measure F.L? I have no idea what the F.L. is on the educational lenses I got from surplusshack.
As I said before, I had a decent image with the fast lens. When I used a 28mm-70mm F3.5-4.6 zoom, I noticed hotspot/vignetting at 28mm but less at 70mm but nowhere near the image quality of the 50mm 1:1.4 . Maybe someone more knowledgable than I can guess why this is so.
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Old March 14th, 2004, 11:05 AM   #567
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> Does your Canon rectangular PCX have a ground side?

No, it's completely clear.

> Do all SLRs use the same configuration?

My Canon AE-1 was identical to your description, except that the PCX is not ground. My fresnel/focusing ring has the ground surface on one side.
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Old March 14th, 2004, 12:21 PM   #568
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Hello

i got the nu-view system.
It is a well made gadget you can screw on a camcorder lens (as long as you got the the way to do it, that is not obvious on many cheap model)
the diameter is 37mm so it fit best cam with this size.
you connect the cinch cable in the composite video out of the cam to genlock the LCD shutter of the gadget to your cam.
I am working with PAL 50fps so the result is a bit like looking on a 18 fps old movie.
That is less noticeable when you use NTSC with 60fps.
I got the wireless LCD glasses that you can order with the nu-view.
From a pure technical point of view, i can say it works very well.
Amazing 3D as advertised.
From another point of view, the fact that playing the tape requires the LCD glasses limit the use of it to a friend/family circle.
Frankly, the product is great, but it is now somewhere in a drawer since almost 2 years because i found no really use than just making some shot for fun and i think they are not producing it anymore. so, good idea, but I doubt you could become rich with it.
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Old March 15th, 2004, 03:59 AM   #569
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Brett Erskine

Brett, I have two questions for you (and anyone else who wants to chime in):

1. Did I understand you correctly as saying that it would be a good idea to grind the plano side of the condensor instead of having a separate GG? I was thinking that earlier, wondering if it is so important to get the condensor so close to the GG, why not just grind the flat side... then I see you saying something similar. Am I hearing you right?

2. Okay, I'll take the bait on the cylinder lens. You have mentioned it in a couple of threads now, and you've got me interested. Can you give more info on this? Is this something that could be incorporated into the Aldu35 setup?
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Old March 15th, 2004, 08:19 PM   #570
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a couple of links for optics

http://www.anchoroptical.com
http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=21
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