35mm Adapter Static Aldu35

Alain Dumais · January 28th, 2004, 10:02 PM

There is some small problem here, but everything are only tape together

It's not perfectly aling

http://www.kheops-tech.com/~ad3d/test-chart2.gif

Alain

Jim Lafferty · January 28th, 2004, 11:16 PM

Check this link out if you're in the states:

http://www.poc.com/lsd/default.asp

This, too:

http://www.poc.com/lsd/default.asp?page=overview&sub=dds

- jim

Agus Casse · January 29th, 2004, 12:07 AM

I just saw the test charts, the results are really quite amazing, but is it me, or in the last test i see a little grain ? is that because of the gif compression ?

Also, you can really fix the image distorsion if you use a fresnel lens, as now you only magnify, you need to correct that magnified image so the distorsion is minimal (Just like Daniel Adapter, which proves to work great with a 1chip 380k effective TRV18 camera )

We are now going to make a new system from this basic, but with the flipped image, i will try to get something done for next week.

Congrats man, and you are a great pionner and i admire your intuition and creativity to go a step ahead and come with great results.

Paul Bettner · January 29th, 2004, 12:56 AM

Alain, fantastic work man, please keep it up.

My observations of the latest test charts are that, while the adapter slightly softens the image (probably due to it not being perfectly in focus on the GG) there is actually GREATER resolution being captured from the Aldu35 adaptor image than the image with stock lens. I'm not sure how that's possible but that's my read of the chart results...

By the way, even if that is slight grain and not .gif compression, I still think that image quality is MORE than acceptable for the kind of application we're talking about (guerilla indie film making!) Sure, no grain is better than a tiny bit, but I'd HAPPILY shoot with a tiny bit of grain if it meant wide DOF and a simple-to-make adaptor.

paulb

Brett Erskine · January 29th, 2004, 02:18 AM

Alain Im very impressed with your results. What did you change on your adapter set up since your first test chart? The test were so good I just want to make sure----did you shoot the chroma aberration test chart with only your "magnifing" lens or was that frame grab shot with the whole mini35 setup put together?

Same question for the resolution charts.

Looks like Alain may have done it. Now a even harder challenge will be to get a similar system to work on the DVX. With its longer minimum focus and large lens diameter its going to be a bit harder.

Adam Bowman · January 29th, 2004, 06:23 AM

Paul,
The extinction resolution between the straight and through adapter framegrabs are not comparable because of the difference in framing.

Alain, if you fill both the entire CCD capture area with the entire resolution chart (you're zoomed in too much at the moment) you'll have a far more realistic gauge of your cameras resolution and the loss through the adapter.

The arrow points on the edges should touch the edge of the framegrab.

Alain Dumais · January 29th, 2004, 07:41 AM

Yesterday I change the magnification lense for a lense that I took from a old super 8 camera that I have sacrifice,(Shame on me), whitch is 50mm and the first test was from one lens only,like I say before I tough that the two other element are not a obligation,but yes it is , and the secon is whit the three element.
So yes it's just magnifing lens.

maybe I should post a photo of my working space , it look like sacrifice table.)

The resolution chart is whit the whole adapter.

Peter Sciretta · January 29th, 2004, 08:31 AM

I am starting production on a short film in 2 weeks and would love to use this with my PD150. Is there any way I can pay someone to build me an adapter cheap and quickly?

J. Clayton Stansberry · January 29th, 2004, 10:38 AM

Does anyone have plans to post a tutorial on this? I have seen the images of the Aldu35, yet was wondering if there could be some instructions put with that. Also, this may have been discussed in the other static thread but, how do you determine distances of lens, GG, magnifier, etc? Aldain, the footage looks great! Looks like I am going to have a collection of A-35's...an agus35 already and looks like I'll have to build one of these too! Thanks for all the work everyone!

Clay

Kevin Burnfield · January 29th, 2004, 11:03 AM

I'd like to second the request for tutorial, I'm a little lost on the technical aspects of this and how it all goes together.

Jim Lafferty · January 29th, 2004, 11:07 AM

The distances needed are the same for the Agus and Aldu -- you just need to setup proper flange focal length and get your ground glass within a reasonable distance from your video camera's macro lens so as to afford it enough room to zoom in and fill the screen with the projected image.

That's it.

I don't have the time/money/energy at the moment to put up a tutorial on a static solution, but plan to when the time comes (if no one else steps forward ahead of me...)

But, basically, you've got 5 objectives with this project:

1. Get a macro lens or macro filter setup for your DV camera that is +7 or greater.

2. Obtain properly ground glass, or similar material.

3. Assemble a light and dust-proof housing that attaches your adapter to the front of your DV camera, and can accomodate your ground glass, with a mount for 35mm film lenses at the front. I'd suggest making a trip to Home Depot and looking at the PVC they've got...

4. Place the ground glass at the proper flange focal length from the rear of your 35mm lens.

5. Figure out a way to attach the setup to your camera.

Should be even easier than building an Agus provided you outfit yourself with the right materials.

- jim

John Gaspain · January 29th, 2004, 12:31 PM

step 2a- (addendum) I believe Alain used a clear UV filter, and ground that down to a GG.

Thanks for the summary Jim

Corey Smith · January 29th, 2004, 01:09 PM

I may have found something that works. Last night I found plastic holders that you put your negative pictures into. If you hold them from a distance of something you can't see through it, but if you place it right on something it's clearer than tracing paper. I used it and it seemed to work fairly good. I think someone else should try it though, because my adapter isn't built very good and is hard to line up the 50mm lens correctly (it kind of sags down a bit. Hard to explain).

Anyway, this very thin plastic has no grain, but you'll want to keep it in the best condition possible. It's a semi opaque clear plastic material from a distance (if you hold it up to your eyes and put your hand about 6 inches away, you'll barely be able make out what' you're looking at), but looks highly tranparent the closer you get to the object (hold it up to your eye put your hand real close and you'll see it perfectly. Place it on letters and you can see them almost as good as looking at them without the plastic covering them, move the plastic a couple of inches above letter and the letters will virtually disappear).

Try it. This stuff came from "Longs Drug Stores" and holds your negatives.

Frank Ladner · January 29th, 2004, 01:41 PM

Corey: I know exactly what you're talking about. Didn't think of that. Good idea!

My aluminum oxide should be here Monday. I'm really looking forward to trying to make a ground glass. However, I'm going to try the route of starting with 600 grit and grinding the whole thing with just that. I know it'll take a while, but hopefully I can get some acceptable results.

As with others, I will post some images as soon as I get something going. I must say that I am a little worried now that I realize I should have an achromat/diopter, and they cost way more than I was expecting.

Also, are any of you working on an adjustable version, to accomodate lenses with different flange focal lengths?

Dmitri Henry · January 29th, 2004, 03:19 PM

Hey guys do you think having a 30mm by 20mm gg will result in a significant field of view loss? I asked John Jay about it he said that it is possible to gain back the field of view by using a 35mm instead of a 50mm slr. I was wondering about the barrel distortion on the 35mm is it very noticable? Also does anyone know where i can find a fast 35mm and a 50mm lens with the same threading size. I am thinking of using zenit's b gg for this adaptor which is around 30mm by 20mm.
All comments are very welcome.

January 28th, 2004, 10:02 PM	#76
Alain Dumais Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Montreal Canada Posts: 86	Update new lens There is some small problem here, but everything are only tape together It's not perfectly aling http://www.kheops-tech.com/~ad3d/test-chart2.gif Alain

January 28th, 2004, 11:16 PM	#77
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Check this link out if you're in the states: http://www.poc.com/lsd/default.asp This, too: http://www.poc.com/lsd/default.asp?page=overview&sub=dds - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

January 29th, 2004, 12:07 AM	#78
Agus Casse Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Guatemala Posts: 322	I just saw the test charts, the results are really quite amazing, but is it me, or in the last test i see a little grain ? is that because of the gif compression ? Also, you can really fix the image distorsion if you use a fresnel lens, as now you only magnify, you need to correct that magnified image so the distorsion is minimal (Just like Daniel Adapter, which proves to work great with a 1chip 380k effective TRV18 camera ) We are now going to make a new system from this basic, but with the flipped image, i will try to get something done for next week. Congrats man, and you are a great pionner and i admire your intuition and creativity to go a step ahead and come with great results. __________________ Agus35 - the ultimate tool for indie DV filmakers -

January 29th, 2004, 07:41 AM	#82
Alain Dumais Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Montreal Canada Posts: 86	Brett Yesterday I change the magnification lense for a lense that I took from a old super 8 camera that I have sacrifice,(Shame on me), whitch is 50mm and the first test was from one lens only,like I say before I tough that the two other element are not a obligation,but yes it is , and the secon is whit the three element. So yes it's just magnifing lens. maybe I should post a photo of my working space , it look like sacrifice table.) The resolution chart is whit the whole adapter.

January 29th, 2004, 10:38 AM	#84
J. Clayton Stansberry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 316	Does anyone have plans to post a tutorial on this? I have seen the images of the Aldu35, yet was wondering if there could be some instructions put with that. Also, this may have been discussed in the other static thread but, how do you determine distances of lens, GG, magnifier, etc? Aldain, the footage looks great! Looks like I am going to have a collection of A-35's...an agus35 already and looks like I'll have to build one of these too! Thanks for all the work everyone! Clay __________________ I understand everything about nothing.

January 29th, 2004, 12:56 AM	#79
Paul Bettner Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 42	Alain, fantastic work man, please keep it up. My observations of the latest test charts are that, while the adapter slightly softens the image (probably due to it not being perfectly in focus on the GG) there is actually GREATER resolution being captured from the Aldu35 adaptor image than the image with stock lens. I'm not sure how that's possible but that's my read of the chart results... By the way, even if that is slight grain and not .gif compression, I still think that image quality is MORE than acceptable for the kind of application we're talking about (guerilla indie film making!) Sure, no grain is better than a tiny bit, but I'd HAPPILY shoot with a tiny bit of grain if it meant wide DOF and a simple-to-make adaptor. paulb

January 29th, 2004, 02:18 AM	#80
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	Alain Im very impressed with your results. What did you change on your adapter set up since your first test chart? The test were so good I just want to make sure----did you shoot the chroma aberration test chart with only your "magnifing" lens or was that frame grab shot with the whole mini35 setup put together? Same question for the resolution charts. Looks like Alain may have done it. Now a even harder challenge will be to get a similar system to work on the DVX. With its longer minimum focus and large lens diameter its going to be a bit harder.

January 29th, 2004, 06:23 AM	#81
Adam Bowman Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Frome, England Posts: 27	Paul, The extinction resolution between the straight and through adapter framegrabs are not comparable because of the difference in framing. Alain, if you fill both the entire CCD capture area with the entire resolution chart (you're zoomed in too much at the moment) you'll have a far more realistic gauge of your cameras resolution and the loss through the adapter. The arrow points on the edges should touch the edge of the framegrab.

January 29th, 2004, 08:31 AM	#83
Peter Sciretta Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 72	I am starting production on a short film in 2 weeks and would love to use this with my PD150. Is there any way I can pay someone to build me an adapter cheap and quickly?

January 29th, 2004, 11:03 AM	#85
Kevin Burnfield Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 363	I'd like to second the request for tutorial, I'm a little lost on the technical aspects of this and how it all goes together.

January 29th, 2004, 11:07 AM	#86
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	The distances needed are the same for the Agus and Aldu -- you just need to setup proper flange focal length and get your ground glass within a reasonable distance from your video camera's macro lens so as to afford it enough room to zoom in and fill the screen with the projected image. That's it. I don't have the time/money/energy at the moment to put up a tutorial on a static solution, but plan to when the time comes (if no one else steps forward ahead of me...) But, basically, you've got 5 objectives with this project: 1. Get a macro lens or macro filter setup for your DV camera that is +7 or greater. 2. Obtain properly ground glass, or similar material. 3. Assemble a light and dust-proof housing that attaches your adapter to the front of your DV camera, and can accomodate your ground glass, with a mount for 35mm film lenses at the front. I'd suggest making a trip to Home Depot and looking at the PVC they've got... 4. Place the ground glass at the proper flange focal length from the rear of your 35mm lens. 5. Figure out a way to attach the setup to your camera. Should be even easier than building an Agus provided you outfit yourself with the right materials. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

January 29th, 2004, 12:31 PM	#87
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	step 2a- (addendum) I believe Alain used a clear UV filter, and ground that down to a GG. Thanks for the summary Jim __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

January 29th, 2004, 01:09 PM	#88
Corey Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hot Springs, AR Posts: 31	Possible Breakthrough I may have found something that works. Last night I found plastic holders that you put your negative pictures into. If you hold them from a distance of something you can't see through it, but if you place it right on something it's clearer than tracing paper. I used it and it seemed to work fairly good. I think someone else should try it though, because my adapter isn't built very good and is hard to line up the 50mm lens correctly (it kind of sags down a bit. Hard to explain). Anyway, this very thin plastic has no grain, but you'll want to keep it in the best condition possible. It's a semi opaque clear plastic material from a distance (if you hold it up to your eyes and put your hand about 6 inches away, you'll barely be able make out what' you're looking at), but looks highly tranparent the closer you get to the object (hold it up to your eye put your hand real close and you'll see it perfectly. Place it on letters and you can see them almost as good as looking at them without the plastic covering them, move the plastic a couple of inches above letter and the letters will virtually disappear). Try it. This stuff came from "Longs Drug Stores" and holds your negatives.

January 29th, 2004, 01:41 PM	#89
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Corey: I know exactly what you're talking about. Didn't think of that. Good idea! My aluminum oxide should be here Monday. I'm really looking forward to trying to make a ground glass. However, I'm going to try the route of starting with 600 grit and grinding the whole thing with just that. I know it'll take a while, but hopefully I can get some acceptable results. As with others, I will post some images as soon as I get something going. I must say that I am a little worried now that I realize I should have an achromat/diopter, and they cost way more than I was expecting. Also, are any of you working on an adjustable version, to accomodate lenses with different flange focal lengths?

January 29th, 2004, 03:19 PM	#90
Dmitri Henry Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NC Posts: 34	Hey guys do you think having a 30mm by 20mm gg will result in a significant field of view loss? I asked John Jay about it he said that it is possible to gain back the field of view by using a 35mm instead of a 50mm slr. I was wondering about the barrel distortion on the 35mm is it very noticable? Also does anyone know where i can find a fast 35mm and a 50mm lens with the same threading size. I am thinking of using zenit's b gg for this adaptor which is around 30mm by 20mm. All comments are very welcome.