35mm Adapter Static Aldu35 - Page 71 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Alternative Imaging Methods

Alternative Imaging Methods
DV Info Net is the birthplace of all 35mm adapters.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 12th, 2004, 02:04 AM   #1051
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 445
Thanks Jim. Something to keep in mind when going for that ultra fine grain texture for your GG. When you grind your gg ultra smooth with AO in order to remove as much grain as possible there is a point where the grain gets so fine that a new set of problems begin to increase.

1)Increase in the diffuse quality of the image

2)Increase in light loss

This is one of the reasons why I decided to make a new adapter that has a moving GG.

In order to get over the two above problems the "ideal" static gg would not be made with AO but be a series of random microscopic pits. Each pit could be a miniture cylinder with refective interior sides and a textured glass bottom. This design would be the ultimate in contrast in grainlessness. Each one of these pits would have to be smaller than the CCD's pixel and randomly layout right next to eachother in order to avoid a morray effect. Millions of these pits would make up a small focusing screen that would measure not much larger than 40mm across. These pits could be cut by a laser enscriber but how your going to get that mirror finish is beyond me. Perhaps you could go without. Remember laser enscribers are able to etch company logos with perfect accuracy on the edge of a diamonds surface so small that a 100X microscope is needed to see it. There is little doubt in my mind that this would be the "ideal" focusing screen but then again what is ideal and what is within our means are often two things. Just though I'd throw it out there for anyone with the resources.

-Brett Erskine
Brett Erskine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2004, 02:42 AM   #1052
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya
Posts: 608
Bob, I mailed you , thanks!

Joel: As soon as I sort out my server, I'll mail a link. A Gaggle of lurkers wiped out my free 5 gig/mo limit on that server!

-Les
Les Dit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2004, 11:11 AM   #1053
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 59
How about this for a ground glass and inverting the image

http://porterscamerastore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=19-0116&Category_Code=V1D
__________________
Ernest L. Acosta, Jr.
President
Garage At Large Productions
P.O. Box 42
Times Square Station
New York, NY 10108
Ernest Acosta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2004, 10:41 AM   #1054
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 445
I've always wanted to see how good that screen looked. Just so you know while it will beable to mirror the image left/right back to normal it will not flip the image right side up again. Someone buy one and post a high res video.
Brett Erskine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2004, 12:11 PM   #1055
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Terre Haute Indiana
Posts: 181
I have one and got it to transfer 8mm to DV.
I will not use it again even for 8mm/16mm transfer.
The grain is LARGE, glass type bubbles on the backside and shows up as if it is dirty.
__________________
Illuminate the Vision
John Heskett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2004, 03:56 PM   #1056
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: switzerland
Posts: 2,131
yesterday i dismounted another LCD screen from a laptop and found (no surprises) the usual set of thin sheet of plastic.
two are kind of transparent stuff that are not transparent (weird), like fresnel. no use for us but two others are frosted plastic , one half transparent , the other one totally opaque.
both have a finer grain than the previous sheets i found in other LCDs. I think they would not fit for static gg (grain is close from what you get from an average gg), but would have no match when used for orbital gg. The sheet is very thin and a small part of it will have almost zero weight, so no inertia to compensate.
Additionally you can just cut it at any size or shape with a simple cutter (mounted in a 35mm slide frame ?)
I will make some test and load picture if i got time (playing with HD now ;-) ).
Giroud Francois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2004, 09:33 PM   #1057
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 1,414
please keep me posted on the tests with the LCD stuff!
Obin Olson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2004, 09:54 AM   #1058
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,761
If you Google around a bit for technical papers to explaine how these different sheets in a LCD system work). Try 3M, go to sid.org and try the manufacturers links (Sharp, and probably Casio, have papers, but it is notoriously hard to track them down as Sharp is spread accross so many websites, and are hard to search (I find Phillips, worse they should look at getting their UK programmers to do the world headquaters sites)).

Go to google, lookup www.handheld2000.org and use their cache feature and look through for links to LCD and display stuff, and the bookmark file posted their (has some links to LCD papers).

Look through my posts on the two main adaptor threads and three original home cinema camera threads, I might have posted some links to some papers there.

Some of this tech would be helpful, but feature size will depend on resolution, and has to match the format being used (35mm MF), so ordering directly from the factory might be a better move.

Thanks

Wayne.
Wayne Morellini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2004, 02:04 PM   #1059
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 636
New page of full res pics and footage from my GL1 adapter here.

This footage is straight from capture with no cleaning, color correction, cropping, etc. All shots were taken more or less at f 2.0, 1/250th shutter, no gain. Time of day was late afternoon, 3-4pm.

As mentioned before, I need to update the tutorial's text to reflect new lessons learned, and will do so soon(ish).

And yes, Les, Brett, et al -- I see the grain and don't care :P :D Looks good enough for me (note: there's no blooming and I'm not using a condensor!)

- jim
__________________
Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G
Jim Lafferty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2004, 07:24 PM   #1060
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Skellefteå, Västerbotten, Sverige (Sweden)
Posts: 23
- Jim

It looks great. I've reached the point where I no longer care about the grain either. Kinda charmy in a way. And you can do some post production to get rid of it.. a good way is too put a little noise on the footage wich will distract your eyes from seeing the static grain, and I also duplicate the footage and have one layer "gaussian blured to strength around 4-6" and with opacity around 20% that takes away the static grain and even gives the film a more film-looking feel.

great work. i'm downloading the pans and racks raw msdv ntsc files now :)
Eric Ohman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2004, 09:53 PM   #1061
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA.
Posts: 4,356
Jim. A quick question.


Is the GG 3 Micron?

What size image frame were you taking off the GG?

Oh well it was two questions.


As for static grain, I could live with what you have there also. I think that provided there are no larger spot defects on the GG texture to spoil the even-ness, it is an aesthetic not unlike the use of different papers or canvasses in drawn and painted artwork.

As for the larger defects, I seem to recall stains on cinema projection screens from misguided cleaning attempts and the odd spider's web or two.
Can larger video projections systems resolve the grain??
Bob Hart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2004, 11:48 AM   #1062
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 636
Eric,

Thanks for the post advice. I'll look into your suggestions.

Bob,

It's WAO5 from gotgrit.com. If you know of a reputable 3 micron distributor, I'd like to know of it, too -- while I'm content with the image as is, I wouldn't mind trying an even finer grain. This GG took me about a half hour to produce -- if you do it right the first time, and avoid deep scratches, grinding is pretty much a headache-free affair -- so another half hour wouldn't kill me.

As for the image size, I don't know that answer. All I do is lock my Nikon lens in on an infinite focal length, point the camera at an evenly lit surface with hard edges (black text on a white background is good), and adjust the zoom and focus ring manually on the GL1. I get it just out of focus and then tap the telephoto rocker back until it get's everything sharp again -- then I check the edges for blooming and, once I've got it set right, slide the camera into 'lock' mode. Then I'm ready to shoot.

- jim
__________________
Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G
Jim Lafferty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2004, 10:58 PM   #1063
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA.
Posts: 4,356
Jim.

Thanks for the info.

I'm using 5 micron. Because I was using a machine I was able to work the mix to exhaustion to get a slightly finer finish but found it became too transparent with hot spotting and ghosting (too much aerial image coming through the projected image).

I returned the disk to a new 5 micron mix and stopped it before it began to fine up. I tried a backpolish on wool felt and Cerium Oxide for 10 minutes which seemed to improve light transmissability a little without losing the opacity.

Instead of a glass polishing surface I tried several metals and found a machined face on flowcast bronze worked best and did not dig scratches into the glass.

I was told cast iron is okay but there must be a special grade because there were very many bad scratches from the piece I used.

Aluminium just didn't work well at all, too much metal and sticking.


I am shooting the 18mm x 24mm image frame which makes the grain larger. The relay lens set I use does not permit a larger projected frame.
Bob Hart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2004, 09:44 AM   #1064
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 25
small bright spots

Hey guys!

I've been grinding a GG for a static adapter with 5 micron, and everything has been going great, until yesterday, when I discovered that my camera picked up very small, white spots when I was aiming at something bright ( like a spotlight, or a window in daytime ).

My guess is, that the light makes the grain shine up, in a way .. Am I right?

Is there any cure for this?
Martin Lindstedt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2004, 11:44 PM   #1065
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 636
Try a ND or polarizer on your 35mm lens?

- jim
__________________
Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G
Jim Lafferty is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Alternative Imaging Methods

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:44 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network