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Old June 16th, 2004, 06:46 AM   #181
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And again

>Dear Farhad,
>Thank you for the promt reply, ProCamHD is definitely the best choise for the camera. What do you think will be the final approximate price for such a package (camera head + software)?


We are planing for a low cost version with 24fps 10bit uncompressed and
60 fps 12bits compressed. Our target price is about $3K for this. Also
we are planing for a 60 fps uncompressed version with onboard computer.
I am not sure what price we should target for this version.

Farhad
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Old June 16th, 2004, 08:27 AM   #182
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Thanks for answering David.

<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman :

> Are you using highly optimised C, or have you gone the final speed step to optimised Machine code, as these can give big gains?

We are primarily SSE2 and MMX optimized.

-->>>

Sorry, do you mean optimised SEE2 and MMX in C code, optimised C code or optimised machine code? (Sorry, but it can tell me how much more performance you can get with future optimisations).

The compression looks quiet good for our needs, especially if you offer a true lossless codec (for me at least). I understand that it does very good comrpession at 40:1, but I wonder how does it compare to a HD broadcast at 100:1 or 200:1?

I have got your figures on processor requirements from the other thread.

I should have been more clear about how you can help with the software and hardware things. I wasn't really getting at capture cards but I am interested in the prospect (no pun intended) of one software system, like yours, doing everything from capturing the footage (with good, tight, and easy capture supporting external controls) to editing. Alternatively to that, I was wondering if you will have plugins that we could use with capture software and different popular editors (apart from Premier, like Final Cut Pro)? So I should have asked, how possible is this? This is the sort of things that the Robs are trying to put together.

The Prospect Lite initiative is good but to support integration with other cameras footage, and off air or HDDVD footage, DV (DVCAM, MINIDV, DVCPRO50, DIgibeta (maybe) and analogue input) and lowend HD (HDV1/2, and consumer interfaces (component etc).) would be good. As I have argued in the other thread, industry is moving to increased bit depth, 4:4:4, resolutions, and bayer, anyway, so the only special support for us would be cameralink and PC interfaces (USB, Firewire, Gigbit Ethernet) ands extrernal capture controls support (which could simply be a way to pass capture commands to your software).

At the moment everything is up in the air until we see the next generation of HD specific cameras, so we will have to wait and see.

Unfortunately in the time since I orriginally posting the questions, people have moved on and the Robs are trying to develope software. But I see a product like yours as a good quality alternative solution.

Consortium of Alternative Imaging, out.
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Old June 16th, 2004, 10:15 AM   #183
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Re: News from Sumix

You should have heard what I just said! Great fantastic ;;;;)))))

Yes Yes Yes, on price target too, with onboard compression (very extremely, extremely smart move, as long as they include true lossless too) and onboard computer version. Have they been reading my posts? I was almost ready to give up and concile myself to a fate of mediocar bayer camera. Now for anyalsys and arguement.

Questions: Maybe you should send an edited version of this to Sumix (with th irrelavent parts and questions deleted):

Firstly, does it have the microlense array that the 3530 has, this should be a better solution, but it doesn't mention it. The way they go on they seem to be making out that the 3530 is better than the 3560 is that right?

Sumix is saying "We are planing for a low cost version with 24fps 10bit uncompressed and 60 fps 12bits compressed." What sort of comrpession is that (lossless), and what interfaces are we talking about? Does that also include 25fps, 50 fps and 30fp? What about 12bits at 24/25/30fps?

How does this chip compare in picture performance, to the 3530 and especially the Micron chip they suggested last time (I haven't even found a propper spec sheet for that, does anybody have one, I would be happy with a 3 chip micron at this price instead, if it was good enough)?

I think everything about it is terrific, but I would like a 3 chip for this price (stuff Bayer), but if the sensitivity and range is going to walk over the Sony HDV box camera, Panasonic and Sony HD ENG cameras, and the Viper, then I could settle for it. I would even prefer a really good three chip 720p. Even a three chip Micron (if good enough). So Steve can you find out how much the three chip version would be, I don't want to spend more then $4K? How would a micron 3 chip compare in performance and price, I understand that prisms start at $1K?

I have some cheap tech that could do the compression without FPGA, and be programmed in weeks. I have spotted it some time ago, it has an array of parralell risc processors with memory and fpu's, at extremely high perfomance and low power, but only just remembered it. That would move developement time of this part of the circuit up 10 times. Steve if you would like to pass it along? This is not the other tech I mentioned before that was mainly for PC's processing. I am such a dope not to remember this earlier, this would let even a low speed PC do all the capture, compression, and editing you like (as long as the software can take advantage of it).

www.clearspeed.com/news.php?page=pr&pr=2

http://www.clearspeed.com/technology...c7694795e722fb

www.clearspeed.com/products.php?page=si

www.clearspeed.com/products.php?page=faq

I have included all these links as it is hard to get an idea of the extent of it's capabilities from one page.

Summary:
- from 10's to thousands of Risc 32-bit processors with Floating Piont untis
- programmable in C (Rob could move code to it).
- can act as main processor, or coproccessor
- very low power at very high performance, or even more performance at higher power levels.
- 64 bit version coming.

With something like this, a cameralink comrpession board could have been within reach of the Robs.

Any information on: "we are planing for a 60 fps uncompressed version with onboard computer." the computer bit (are we talking about my cameralink with itx type idea, or capture/compression/raid storage board).

Altsens calim 12 and 24 bit on the chip, what is that, could you make enquiries on how to read the spec and how the Micron compared?

If the prototype is Nov, when can we expect a production camera?

What is "It has QE of 70%, almost" and "ProCamHD is definitely the best choise for the camera."?

What do you guys make of the spec (is there a data sheet), can you ask them about the variouse performance issues mentioned before (optical: range and S/N (at normal and gain up and doen), sensitivity, low light sensitivity etc (I won't bother with the response curves as they are likely to be among the best out there anyway).

With Sumix on the Altsens compressed high ground, and SI on Micron we should have a great range of cameras prices. Now all I have to do is 'wait", while HDV, DVC, DVCAM, DIgibeta, and even mini-dv owners mock me ;) "No, no, I'm not interested" as they mock me with their single chip Sharps and 3ccd Canon HDV's, not yet realising that when they take those things to a TV station and can't hook it into their systems, the HDDVCPRO100 and cinealta people with be smirking at them ;), at least we got the RAW quality footage out of component (or optioinal HDSDI card ;).
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Old June 16th, 2004, 11:02 AM   #184
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Wayne

Hi, Wayne,
I'm sure Sumix is on the project because of this forum. I can't guarantee, though, that they read all the posts :( :)
Wayne, I'm sorry, but I've waited for too long (I guess I'm buying one of the available cams from them or SI), besides, I don't really have time lately.
Nevertheless, the guys will be happy if you offer your help. Just copy your last thread into a message destined to their server :))
http://www.sumix.com
I wish I had patience :))
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Old June 16th, 2004, 02:44 PM   #185
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Re: Wayne

Steve don't waste your money, in a couple of months SI will have their HD range, probably Micron based, and a couple of months latter Sumix will based on the better Altsens. So wait around a bit longer, much better quality coming (while the system still gets sorted).

Something I just realised, is that the same cameras will be good for remote video apps in Churches, conferencing, conferences, concerts, sports events, secuirty, community tv studio cameras etc, so they allready have a potential market for them.


Thanks

For all your initiative and help.

Wayne.

When I get around to sending them the post who should I adress it to at Sumix?
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Old June 16th, 2004, 02:54 PM   #186
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OK, this has come up a bunch of times and I've hinted at it. We are getting an Altasens design running. First proto is taking images. Please don't ask too much more but I will release information here when it is appropriate. Figure 6-8 weeks to first shipments.
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Old June 16th, 2004, 03:01 PM   #187
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Quote:
Steve Nordhauser :
We are getting an Altasens design running.
Ya kicked it over, Steve! :-)
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Old June 17th, 2004, 07:30 AM   #188
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:)

Thank you for advice, Wayne.
Just add "camera" in front of the "@" :)
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Old June 17th, 2004, 07:54 AM   #189
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Steve get a SI 1300 like have and start designing a housing for it..once you have that done I bet Rob will have software to drive it! this thing is like a double edge sword..on the one edge it's AWESOME and the other side it stinks because of no system/software support! :0 but that will soon change! and we can leave Sony Panasonic and JVC in the dust fighting over what compressed tape format to shove at us next!
(all the big boys make money on tape sales, not cameras)
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Old June 17th, 2004, 08:05 AM   #190
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<<<--
(all the big boys make money on tape sales, not cameras) -->>>

... and decks, lots of decks
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Old June 17th, 2004, 08:26 AM   #191
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Big boys, Obin :)

I'm more than convinced that "big boys" will start shoving tape and decks up their big holes but not this year :(
Eventually, even the national governments will collapse; it's just the amounts of positive time energy.
I think nobody here is conserned whether or not a particular pyramid will cease to exist... We are eager to curve reality to our pleasing.. For that I'll wait SI Altasens solution :)
P.S. I hope SI will give us some kind of capture software platform...
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Old June 17th, 2004, 08:31 AM   #192
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Quote:
Steve Ipp wrote:
I hope SI will give us some kind of capture software platform...
The software that we're building for the SI 1300 should be able to support the AltaSens system as well.
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Old June 17th, 2004, 08:41 AM   #193
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Dear Rob

Rob, wish I had enough adjectives to express my gratitude towards folks like you and genuine philanthropy that probably drives you.
United we'll stand (a line from USSR anthemn:)
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Old June 17th, 2004, 08:50 AM   #194
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Re: Dear Rob

Quote:
Steve Ipp wrote:
Rob, wish I had enough adjectives to express my gratitude towards folks like you and genuine philanthropy that probably drives you.
Heh ... well, it's fun, and I'm hoping to make a little money from it too. :-)
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Old June 17th, 2004, 09:01 AM   #195
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Editing

Rob, I forgot whether it was you whom I sent hardware configuration info for a PC based HD NLE... Let me know if it wasn't you. If you're interested, I'll send this .pdf to you.
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