Home made camera designs?
 

Hi

I have been reading about home made cameras, and I wanted to open this thread for people to post links to, and info about, homemade video camera designs. Requirements: it's an practical improvement over, or cost less than, commercial video cameras.

This also includes camera modifications to improve the video output of the camera (see below)., and is open to cheap alternative video and HD cameras.

Please keep this thread alive and post all the designs you know of.


To kick things off:

http://www.geocities.com/researchhd/New_HD_Cameras.html

Homemade Cameras
 

Here's my 25 fps progressive scan, direct-to-disk 1/2" x 3CCD camcorder:
http://home.teleport.com/~gdi/vancecam.htm

to Wayne and Dan
 

this is exellent thread to start!

i am DREAMING about my own home made camera. so probably thanks to that thread it's closer than one can think - especially if you look to dan's exellent work!

i'm in!


filip

Yes, I rembember this one, I saw it in the Hot Gear section of Pixel Monger.

Here is the Scott Billups Beta SP camera converted to direct to disk:

http://www.pixelmonger.com/hg_cam.html

(Bottom of the page).

The following Russian effort was pionted out to me, it's for sale but shows a lot of initiatives for home made camera innovators to look at.

http://www.elphel.com/

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2441343146.html

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2171151224.html

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9560070658.html

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5490668192.html

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT4739871225.html

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5024081278.html

Dan: can you tell us a bit more about how the camera is holding
up in actual use? As several people have asked by now it would
be great to see some footage from the camera. I'm sure Chris
can be assisting you in hosting such a file.

Don't forget about the VanceCam. Dan Vance is a member here as well.

Hey Wayne,

You posted this link:

http://www.geocities.com/researchhd/New_HD_Cameras.html

Man, I've seen this website quoted from a zillion people, been to it a zillion times, and still have no idea who's web site it is. Who's making this camera and when are they coming out?:


" 2. $10K SOLUTION - new camera is being developed with one 2/3" CCD, 1080p, variable frame rate, up to 60 fps, 24p is supported. The advantage of 1 CCD is elimination of color fringing, typical of 3 CCD prism systems. Minimal MPEG2 compression. Interchangable 35 mm SLR camera mount (Pentax PK and Nikon). Low cost 35 mm still camera lenses will be used."


Thanks

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned one of the cameras that has gotten the most press at NAB this year. The kinetta camera at http://www.kinetta.com

Can't wait to see that footage

Ray

Posting Clips
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Dan: can you tell us a bit more about how the camera is holding
up in actual use? As several people have asked by now it would
be great to see some footage from the camera. -->>>

I was going to hold off until I could get my 2-minute trailer done and post that, but maybe I'll grab something just to show how the progressive scan looks and post that.

My film is 70% shot now. I have about 140GB of footage (I was paranoid at the start and saved everything!). Partway through shooting, some hot pixels developed in the camera. So far I've been unable to find a replacement CCD block, so hopefully I can minimize them in post.

Most recently I modified the shutter to 150 degrees, so that I can shoot some night scenes under mercury-vapor lights. Because it's a PAL camera, those kinds of lights (and fluorescents) cause a pulsation with a 180 degree shutter. The camera itself does have syncho-scan, but not in frame-integration mode, so I can't adjust the electronic shutter in progressive scan mode, unfortunately.
Overall, it's perfoming great, and holding up well over many weeks of shooting.

Ray-
Thanks for that link. That is a truely incredible camera!! Its obvious in the final design stage but what I couldnt get from the site is the when and how much $ they expect for the camera. Also it mentions that the camera can use 35mm cine lenses but does that mean it uses 35mm film gate size sensor? It doesnt say one way or another. Anyone have any more info then whats already available on the site?

-Brett Erskine

I heard that the Kinetta is going to cost around $20 without lens.

Hi Laurence and Ray, I have been taking a bit of a break at the moment, but I was just going to reference the Kinetta, as well. It's expected price is one reason this thread exists.

Laurence, I don't know who runs that website, I can't even remember where I got the link from, it could have been a link of a link from here, etc etc. I have printed and read all the stuff yet, but I am curious if anybody understands where this guy is coming from, he is equating latitude with compression?? As far as I know he is talking about light lattitude, which has nothing to do with compression, unless the compression routine somehow limits the lattitude (squashs the definition or range of light values).

There will be lots of stuff like this that is thought, but may never actually get finished, or succeed, so it is just a matter of waiting and seeing the results.

But the piont with this one is that the Juan Panasonic DVX100 direct to disk project may yeild knowledge for this guy/woman to do the same with the JVC.

Juan's 4:4:4 12-bit Uncompressed DVX100
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=20332

kinetta
 

Hi everyone -

I think we are the future of image acquisition! The new modular camera will allow us the lenses of our choice, the chips of our choice (CCD, CMOS), raw capture, and eventual output to the codec of our choice.

All this with repair and upgrade similar to a PC.

This is a link to what that camera will look like: http://www.kinetta.com/home.php

Isn't this the same post that turned up in the Alternative Viper thread a few days ago? The price is still a bit expensive. Maybe if there was a cheap 720p edition with quality sensor, you could charge double for 1080p/i with extra quality and features, and double again for Super HD with more quality and features ($10K ($5K would be much better), $20K, and $40K). But I'm happy that it is mentioned here anyway.

I possibly have another manufactured HD camera for $10K. I don't know if this is related to the HD research site or not:

http://www.geocities.com/mammacow3/nab2005.htm

Round up or NAB/2004 HD cameras:
http://www.geocities.com/mammacow3/index.html

I think I would like cheap commercial alternative HD cameras defined as: cheaper than the performance equivalent standard commerical video camera, and equal or less than:

HD $10K.

Super HD $40K.

Ultra HD ($80K or less).

Special featured cameras: double the prices listed above (Super fast, super adaptable (Kinetta like) etc).

Above this these prices they begin to be expensive.

For homemade, or open source cameras, any cost would be fine.

kinetta
 

hi everyone this a link to the chip used in the kinetta.
http://www.altasens.com/technology.html

Thanks Richard.

4.5K HD Camera.
 

http://www.geocities.com/indiecinema...D_Systems.html

Fits in camera body.

Concept HD looks good, but 'Where's the beef? ' --- i.e.: I don't have much confidence in a company that posts no sample clips, or even stills.
The camera does not exist, I assume.
-Les

what about a contact email address?? I mean c'mon who is doing that thing anyway?

Re-editing:

Have finally got around to reading the Concept HD site. Strange, no contact details, geocities site. But he has turned up at camcorderinfo:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/sho...2188#post72188

I don't know if this is finsihed or is preliminary information to see what interest there is.

On our local forum:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=25296

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=25808

Say everyone,

Somebody tell me the goods/bads possible prices about using something like this.

http://www.fast-vision.com/cameras/camera13.HTM#


Thanks!!!!!

wow looks like you found the ONLY company in the world using the NEW Micron global shutter chip!!! guess I better contact them asap as I think that chip kicks ass!

Well. I'm not going to get into researching the fast vision camera yet, but this is not the only fast camera I have spotted. The problem is that there are just too many options out there to choose from (and research). Maybe people need to work out the backend first, in such a way that any of these cmos modules canbe attached, and a new profile loaded to controll image acquistions? Still people to choose among the cheapest and best sensors is still needed. People in threads mentioned above might like to look into it. I just run out of time.

Note it is saying 4M pixel, is that actual sensor pixels to produce the lower res frame (would be good)?

Here is the Nab 2004, high speed camera, winner:

http://www.visiblesolutions.com/phantomv9.html

Good pictures of speeding bullet, crashes etc on the site:

http://www.visiblesolutions.com/

Fillfatory, that does the sensor for it, and for Sumix, has just released 35mm sensors:

http://www.fillfactory.com/htm/news/news.htm (SHD resolution, but 3fps)

Hey, this may sound really lame, but I was just looking at the tech specs of Final Cut Pro HD, and they make it sound like you don't need any super expensive capture card to edit in HD. Supposedly you can capture 90-160 Mbps 4:2:2 1080p at 10 bit via a normal Mac system with PCI interface (they call it uncompressed, but...).

http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/

Is this legit? B&H sells turnkey systems for under 5k (Although not PCI I think, so have to work that out). I know you'd be losing some quality because of the 160 Mbps cap, but maybe it would be good enough for a big screen? Maybe a viable form of acquisition with a 1080 24p chip camera connected via PCI? I assume you'd need to integrate some camera software somehow. But you'd have your NLE to boot. Somebody chime in here, tell me where I'm going wrong.

Also, what about this new Prospect HD from CineForm? 1920 X 1080 HD up to 30p and I think only software based? Although it may only come with Boxx Technologies which may be expensive, and I think it's SDI. But give me your input . . . I'm drowning in the Tech world . . . DROWNING AAHAHAHAHH!!!!!!

http://www.cineform.com/products/ProspectHD.htm

FYI fillfactory 1.3mp chips stink, really bad color...I have seen test images and we would not want to shoot what that chip makes for images

more info, that Micron "kickass" chip is good BUT it has a HUGE datarate and that is why almost no one is using it in a camera design...the guys I bought the HD cam from can make a camera from that chip but only in bulk numbers

I thought the colour issue was resolved from the other thread as some form of mistake (plus when I first saw the grey scale mobile phone picture I mistook it for a poor color picture of a grey mobile phone). Is this correct or is there a color problem?

That Micron chip datarate, is it possible to reduce it for a smaller picture format?

Well whatever they choose, as long as it resolves these issues (different fillfactory sensors/colour filter/prism cobinations are going to give different performance in these areas).

I had a quick look at the prospect HD website, expensive, but if you want to pay that price probably well worth it. On top of that you will need an expensive HD-SDI card to capture, probably meant for integration with existing SOny/Pana PRO HD setups. Didn't get down to the specific capture requirements, wherever there is another card for component.

As I understand it they are using a near lossless compression codec. I support this, but If I'm going to go direct to disk I would prefer genuine, lossless compression, as I want to run some particular software filters on all good footage. The system Silicon Imaging near looseless codec (or is that losless), and different camera link technologies maybe worth a look at:

http://www.siliconimaging.com/SPIHT.htm#Lossless

http://www.siliconimaging.com/SI%20Main3.html

Went over to sourceforge.com and printed many pages of search results for camera stuff. I remember noticing something about a video editor in that list, maybe somebody is working o a good HD editor for free.

color on the fillfactory chips suck as far as I can tel. Color on the Micron is very good, that is the chip i bought and am waiting for

a reply email when I asked about the micron:

I say. We have discussed this chip. A lot. Did you notice it is a 10 tap, 10 bit sensor. That is 100 parallel data lines. Over 500Mpix/sec. Even in 8 bit mode, this exceeds a 64 bit/66MHz bus bandwidth.

my reply was:

"but can't you limit the datarate to only what is needed for say 60fps at 1280x720?"


I am waiting for a reply....

Okay, what about the idea of Final Cut Pro HD? It may be good enough if not alot of fx yes?

I don't know much about the different video editors, I can't even remember which of the top companies announced a free standard version recently. But I have picked up Linux Format, with a section on video progams for Linux, whch I will be talking about, after I read the thing over the next couple of days, in the low cost Viper thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...477#post181477

If there is a good freeware editor for Linux, there maybe a free Windows version, and these people might possibly get interested in supporting custom formats for new alternative HD cameras, like we are hoping for.

The advantages of a true, completely, loosless codec, is that it is easiest to add editing support for, as all decompressed footage can be edited raw, and recomrpessed, as many times as you like without generational degregaion.

Free/open-source NLE software
 

<<<-- freeware editor for Linux -->>>

There is a free/open-source video (and audio) editor for Linux called Cinelerra.

http://www.heroinewarrior.com/index.php3
http://cvs.cinelerra.org/

I played around with it a few years ago, but haven't attempted a project with it yet. It's not as mature as the commercial NLE packages, but I understand it has a fair amount of power.

Obin,
This seems like a better place to reply since you are asking general information about the monster Micron chip. Yes, you can limit the data rate by slowing the clock and doing a region of interest. The problem is that it only makes it incrementally more interesting than the 1280x720 you can do with the 1.3Mpix Micron.

We are working on a number of new cameras, due in 8-16 weeks that will address HD and global shuttering beyond what we have already. One of the reasons that I want to watch this group is to see what features the Indie market is needing.

Regards,
Steve

to Steve Nordhauser
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Nordhauser : One of the reasons that I want to watch this group is to see what features the Indie market is needing. -->>>

so maybe someone should say what is needed...

what I will definetelly need is posibility to work in 1280x720 resolution with faster than normal frame rate - like 50 or 100 or 125 fps (i'm from pal country, so i prefer speeds which are connected with n*25fps formula, but if the option is to work normally in 25p and have 60 or 120fps it's also ok for me as long as typical frame rate for pal (in my opinion) is also possible.

i beleive that in ntsc countries the wishes are very similar but of course connected with 30/60/120 fps solutions.

steve, thank you for watching this community. it means that we are not alone!

filip

Steve the only thing I care about on that chip is GLOBAL shutter..it HAS to be done if you want a product that will sell...I am going to use your chip/camera as a "test" for the whole idea...but I am sure I will want a global shutter camera for a final version and the highframe rate is a very good option..one that I need ALL the time for slomotion work

With most global shutter CMOS sensors there is a leakage even when the shutter is closed. On the Fill Factory, it is about 1.5% - we have seen some smearing especially when the illumination is high and the readout time is fairly slow. Will this be a problem?

The Altasens (Rockwell) HD sensor was made for this market and it is rolling shutter, but at a high frame rate. Is that an acceptable solution? The rolling shutter artifacts (time skew from top to bottom) is reduced at higher frame rates.

Also, I have been wondering, has anyone experimented with using a single sensor Bayer camera with 4x the resolution and combining four values (red/green/blue/green) into one RGB 24 to 36 bit value?

Steve that is a very good idea...if you know how that can be done, it would solve alot of the issues that single sensor cmos/ccds have in color resolution..we need more resolution from the bayer chips. Maybe a 3mp sensor scaled down to 1.3mp? I will have to see the camera your sending me...IF I can set it to shoot 60fps and I capture ONLY 30fps this would work fine, BUT if I have to shoot at 30fps to capture 30fps and then get an image smear from the rolling shutter this will be big a problem