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Old May 29th, 2005, 01:06 AM   #2881
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Obin,

Are you using two 7200rpm laptop HDs in RAID 0? If so, you should be able to get 1080 @ 24fps in 10bit, but probably not 12 bit, unless you do some kind of compression.
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Old June 3rd, 2005, 05:19 AM   #2882
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I just can't stand to see this thread so far down the page.. How is the project going Obin? Also I just learned an interesting tidbit for what its worth; the OLED display inside the Kinetta costs $6000!
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Old June 3rd, 2005, 07:54 AM   #2883
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plowing away at it Rob at this point, hardware is not an easy task..but would I expect it to be at this point? LOL

not much to say at this point..still getting disks to talk with chips..;)
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Old June 14th, 2005, 01:21 AM   #2884
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everybody may know deja....but

got this from Steve Nordhauser
..................................................................................................
We do have the SI-1920HD which does use the Altasens.
Camera link $3995 USD camera alone
with a 64 bit frame grabber $4995
Gigabit ethernet $4995

We are working on a software package for the SI-1920HD that will work with the gigabit interface, provide 24fps of 12 bit lossless HD recording to disk and a live preview window. It has an exporter to write AVI, sequential TIFF and other formats. This will be released at $1995 but is being sold now for $1495 to early adopters with at least a year of updates.
Regards,
.................................................................................................

it's way cheaper as a Kinetta and not much more $$ as some "high end " DV HD stuff. So what
ronald
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Old June 14th, 2005, 07:37 AM   #2885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Biese
We do have the SI-1920HD which does use the Altasens.

We are working on a software package for the SI-1920HD that will work with the gigabit interface, provide 24fps of 12 bit lossless HD recording to disk and a live preview window.
Please put into layman's terms. I own FX1E but would like to get better film camera. I don't understand much of technical stuff but I am familiar with picture quality from 1. FX/Z1, 2. F900 and 3. F950, all recorded to tape.

How would overall quality for film out compare? Would it be close to F900, or somewhere between F900, F950, considering all used super high quality lenses? How would low light performance compare? What would I need for complete production package, how much would cost? When would be available? How much harder would work with it be compared to say F900? Does it record directly to hard drive or to computer?

Thanks,

Radek
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Old June 14th, 2005, 08:43 PM   #2886
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Roughly 16gs? Not bad, would have to see some samples first of course.

The camera looks to record to a computer and all your other questions can be answered once footage is available to test with.
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Old June 25th, 2005, 12:18 PM   #2887
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no "real" news yet...still working on disk writing...


sent our dvx100 out to get a ReelStream HD out 4:4:4 from it...

working hard...lots of work.. ;) oh, almost forgot, I got a wakeboard for the weekends.. ;)

hmmm...Epix sent me an email saying they have upgraded the board so that it does NOT push 16bit images over the pci buss..it now packs to 12bit...arrgg!! and to think that would have been enough headroom for 24p 1080 4:4:4!!!!


arrgg....maybe I should take a look at the "software" again???
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Old June 25th, 2005, 12:26 PM   #2888
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Obin thats great news! Get the software working! Having the working software solution won't mean that you can't continue work on your new project, and it will give you results sooner rather than later, not to mention that it will give the possiblity of really seeing what the Altasens is made of. A fully working version of the software could give great insight into the hardware solution, plus I really want to get my greedy little hands on it!
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Old June 25th, 2005, 09:47 PM   #2889
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I still think it would be better for Epix to just add , maybe, some little huffman to their board (if they can cause I don't know their hardware), cause if not I fear someone else will do it very soon....:S
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Old June 27th, 2005, 10:32 AM   #2890
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Back again. That pricing and new product information was meant to be private information - I don't like to post anything that is not shipping or do sales in this group.

To answer Ben's comment, yes $2K for software. You can ask Obin the challenges of stable real-time recording. It means that you can build an uncompressed 1080p, 24fps, 12 bit HD recording station (not a portable camera like Obin is doing) for $5K (camera), $2K (software) and maybe $1.5K (64 bit computer with SATA RAID). Use a video splitter and bring a video cable back to the camera head to monitor the capture. It is not a Kinetta, but it is under $10K for a recording system.
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Old June 27th, 2005, 05:30 PM   #2891
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Could use this computer?
http://eu.shuttle.com/en/DesktopDefa...70_read-11119/

What are system requirements?

What is stream size?

Does system includes compression?

How would quality compare to Kinetta, Sony F900, F950, if we used best lenses?

Could you post links to products?

Will you be able turn off dead CCD pixels?

How much resolution you lose with Bayer filter? I read somewhere that get 25% decrease in resolution, turning 1920 into effective 1440 pixels. Is correct? If not, how many % loss?

Radek
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Old June 27th, 2005, 09:36 PM   #2892
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FPGA is the way to go

10k is pretty good for an uncompressed 1080p system. But if you go with an FPGA, I don't see why you couldn't get the list price of a complete integrated 1080p camera down to $3500-4500. At that price, you'd melt the whole industry.

Of course, I'm no electrical engineer...
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Old June 28th, 2005, 02:07 PM   #2893
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The main issues are bandwidth - camera head to the PC, PC bus in and back out to the RAID and RAID continuous throughput.

1920x1080, 12 bit, packed 24fps is about 75MB/sec average. This is a 64bit/66MHz PC, 2 drive SATA RAID. No compression in recording. Sometime later maybe.

Our camera head should be equal to or better than another Altasens 3562 design. We will have a 3570 when available. Other raw data recorders may have more nice features like OLED viewfinders that add value (and cost) but do not directly influence the quality of the recorded images. We are working on our software to assist post processing right now. For more information, contact me off the list or go to the web address in my sig file.

On Bayer, I've heard the 25% number before, also 30%. It depends on what color you look at. For red or blue primary colored objects, it is much worse. For something with a mix of RGB, it might be nearly zero loss with the proper algorithm. So, I'll give you a very qualitative 'it depends'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek Svoboda
Could use this computer?
http://eu.shuttle.com/en/DesktopDefa...70_read-11119/

What are system requirements?

What is stream size?

Does system includes compression?

How would quality compare to Kinetta, Sony F900, F950, if we used best lenses?

Could you post links to products?

Will you be able turn off dead CCD pixels?

How much resolution you lose with Bayer filter? I read somewhere that get 25% decrease in resolution, turning 1920 into effective 1440 pixels. Is correct? If not, how many % loss?

Radek
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Old June 28th, 2005, 02:12 PM   #2894
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Ben, I am an electrical engineer with an FPGA background. They are not holy water - they bring in as many demons as they exorcise. True, if I wanted to build a very low cost camera with a direct HD interface, fixed res viewfinder, fixed file format - I could do it very well with FPGAs (and the right designer). For a more flexible product, a CPU is nice and I'm not a believer in adding any preprocessing that potentially loses quality before recording. Then you might as well buy a DV camcorder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Syverson
10k is pretty good for an uncompressed 1080p system. But if you go with an FPGA, I don't see why you couldn't get the list price of a complete integrated 1080p camera down to $3500-4500. At that price, you'd melt the whole industry.

Of course, I'm no electrical engineer...
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Old June 28th, 2005, 03:32 PM   #2895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Nordhauser
Ben, I am an electrical engineer with an FPGA background. They are not holy water - they bring in as many demons as they exorcise. True, if I wanted to build a very low cost camera with a direct HD interface, fixed res viewfinder, fixed file format - I could do it very well with FPGAs (and the right designer). For a more flexible product, a CPU is nice and I'm not a believer in adding any preprocessing that potentially loses quality before recording. Then you might as well buy a DV camcorder.
I'm not downplaying what you are working on now and trying to bring to the market, but a camera for under 5k with direct HDD recording with some level of compression definitely has a place in this market. If you provide both, you can have a top quality system and a easier to use portable system to offer.

Top quality = uncompressed RGB
Direct to HDD = Huffman, Bayer, Cineform codec...etc
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