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Old June 11th, 2004, 09:32 AM   #16
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Mike you're absolutely wrong, the patent covers all kind of moving groundglass systems including the mini35, the PRO35 an the Video Director's Finder "VDF-35 / 16", too.

You're telling things you cannot proof, because I think you don't understand German. The Patent is written in german, so I believe you got no Idea what is covered by the patent.

There is something you might not know, when you apply for a patent it is usual that you have to wait about 2 to 4 years until it is published or refused.

dietmar
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Old June 11th, 2004, 09:49 AM   #17
 
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Dietmar,

Thanks for letting me know. I just noticed that the Mini 35 unit had nowhere any Patent Pend., or Pat. labels, the Pro 35 had them. I wonder what is really patented? Could you be more specific?

Mike
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Old June 11th, 2004, 03:59 PM   #18
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It is correct, i read the patent yet. The patent covers the Idee of all kind of moving groundglass systems (in a adapter for video cameras). Each kind of movement. Rotating, vibration, etc... the Idee of Movement ist the Point, not the way to do that!!!
But:
1.) Many people converted the same idea years before. I enclosed.

2.) For homemade, you can cover everything. You can sell or buy Parts of them. Parts without patents and then you can put it together and you have an fine working adapter.
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Old June 11th, 2004, 04:29 PM   #19
 
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Watch Out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That changes things. So everyone should be careful and don't offer to make these for someone else. If you refer to these adapters, refer to them as projects for another purpose. When someone starts making parts for these and what eceryone will be doing with these parts is nobody's business. The patent is from the year 2002. It will be good for a long time. I have no clue for how many years a patent is valid. Seven? Fourteen? It should be however noted that there are many patents that are worthless and will not stand in a courtroom. Also I believe that the company needs to apply for patent registration within a year in other countries. So if the patent is registered in Germany and USA, and not in Mexico, someone can make a million dollar business in Mexico making these. If you drive there from L.A. and buy one, it is a different situation tan trying to make them yourself. Another point is that they may not have US registration. I did patent search here and there was no P+S registration, but I may not have been too thorough. Someone should attempt to do that and maybe some patent attorney can advise in case they are registered. Can someone describe details of that patent? No patents are foolproof and you can always get around them. This is 100% legal.

Mike
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Old June 11th, 2004, 04:47 PM   #20
 
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Guys,

This amy be a sneaky way of putting us on a notice that the principle is patented. But it does not talk about US patents. Any attorneys on this board? If you start answering in this thread you may legally admit that you are aware of a potential patent infringement. So those who make their own adapters should not read this thread and if someone asks, you should not know anything.

Mike
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Old June 12th, 2004, 11:15 AM   #21
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<<<-- Originally posted by Dietmar Zonewicz : Not the PRO35 or the mini35 are patented, it is the principle which is patented, so every design with a moving groundglass is covered by this patent.

-->>>

I was intrigued by this having read the patent. The patent is very specific about the type of motion covering

a) axis of rotation perpendicular to the center of the image plane

b) axis of rotation perpendicular to an offest outside the image plane (bad news for rotating CD afficionado's)

c) axis of rotation perpendicular to an eccentricly moving point in the image plane - type a) motion with a vibrating axis

d) linear motion in the image plane


Most surprising of all is that pendulum movement is not covered - tick tock motion - just like my German Grandmother clock

PS - frequency must be 100Hz or greater to avoid a stationary GG frame
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Old June 12th, 2004, 01:11 PM   #22
 
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Well, it would be nice to find out if they have US patent. You can't do pendlum at 100 Hz. How about patents in Asia?
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Old June 12th, 2004, 02:29 PM   #23
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John,
I come from Germany and i read this german patent exactly. The motion you indicated are called in the patent as possible examples (to show witch directions, only side by side). In the paragraph of "patent claims" they call it only motion, without specification. I think this means: all kind of movement.

A pendulum movement has a disadvantage: There are 2 points of no motion, that means the grid is at this points visible.
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Old June 12th, 2004, 03:29 PM   #24
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Hi Rai

The fact that 4 specific motions are referred to without the caveat 'such as but not restricted to' is a weakness in the drafting of the patent and would not necessarily be deemed to cover all motion

An unequivacable way of expressing all motion would have been a single diagram showing rotation and linear motion arrows in all directions - a 'catch all' for the general case

Mike - oops my bad (half period should equal shutter speed) thus should be 25Hz

the 25 hz frequency was based on the Pal frame rate at 50i - in other words - although it is static at 2 points - it is still on average in motion over the 1/50 th of a second timeslice, so the GG would still be blurred.

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Old June 16th, 2004, 08:16 AM   #25
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handheld vibrating groundglass

well I for one only want this piece of vibrating ground glass .
to hold in my hand to look up at the sun . If someone later decides to attach it to a camera thats there business . lets keep working on " hand held vibrating groundglass" thank you rai
and hope when I look at your design for "handheld vibrating groundglass" that It will suit my needs for looking at the sun.
and in no way used as a camera attachment to attach at "the focal plane" reebok has a patent on a air pump in a sneaker not on an air pump.


rotating axis ground glass circa 1955


http://www.oldchristmaslights.com/color_wheels.htm
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Old June 21st, 2004, 08:27 PM   #26
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parts

Hi everyone
I found this site which may be of help with parts.
If anyone knows a site that sells parts could you give us a link. ---- thanks

http://www.budgetrobotics.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=96359&cat=111&
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 02:25 AM   #27
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Richard, thats right. I have made a web side with exact details and pictures. And i can help with working parts, but i will change the web side, so it is for a vibration proportioning filter or something similar, but not for a camcorder attachment (because: see your posting from 16th). The exact formulation (what can i say, what not) will this time examine a attorney. Therefore, please still wait a little time.

Another question: I looking for a reseller so that our parts can be dispatched from the USA
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 05:00 AM   #28
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I'm thinking of providing a parts kit for the micro circular movement system also. I have a good source for the mini ball bearings and motors here in Los Angeles. I have the usual machine shop equipment to make the offset eccentric drive for the motion.
I'm going to sell it as a 'mini paint shaker' or something. ;) You provide the substrate in the middle, whatever it may be.
-Les
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 07:27 AM   #29
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project

they both sound like great names .
looking forward to this project.
-thanks guys
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Old June 23rd, 2004, 08:25 AM   #30
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I saw this device in an electronics shop: It has a high frequency oscillating mechanism based on some solenoids?! It was very quiet:
http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productVie...Max=&SUBCATID=
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