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Old July 25th, 2004, 12:43 AM   #46
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Juan, I didn't say normal disks, I said Raid disks (I don't know wether they where ATA or SATA Raid disks), 4 of them, and obviously the best ones they could find for the benchmark they did, for all I know they might even be raptors.

It is useless arguing about such little things, the threads are there to be read to catch up with everything people have read. The more important fact is that if the Raptors can do 72MB/s sustained (not peak/burst speed) they should do well over 200MB's in a 4 raid version system. That means we have a single bayer 1080 drive, and a 4 raid drive 3chip 1080 and bayer SHD system. Which is amazing news.

Thanks

Wayne.
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Old July 25th, 2004, 08:35 AM   #47
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<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Nordhauser : OK.
Rob L: average vs peak clock rates. The average is the visible image size x frame rate (1280x720x24fps = 22.1Mpix/sec). Due to blanking time, for the SI-1300 to do that rate, the pixel clock is 27MHz. This is the rate that, during image readout, the bus must meet. With an HD with a big buffer, the average # works fine.

Wayne: USB 2.0. To get high data rates, you eat a fair amount of CPU time. Also, transfer rates are highly dependent on the host controller. Intel ICH4 and 5 south bridges are 2-3x faster than external controllers. The typical USB interface chip has small FIFOs making real-time tough at high rates when you don't want to drop frames. We don't compress in the camera because either you want lossless, which only gets 2:1 or lossy and then you need to be able to select a lot of variables. CPU compression and raw recording are more cost effective. -->>>

This might explain some things with USB cameras, because unlike hard drives and Firewire, cameralink, they don't have as advanced circuits to off load from the cpu. I think I heard about some change to the USB spec (or USB-GO spec) that tried to fix this.
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Old July 25th, 2004, 04:25 PM   #48
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As per the discussion over at the 10 bit thread this may help setting up your capture card or USB, and getting the manufactures latest drivers (chip and computer manufacturer) would help.

A edited support session for my sound card problems (my IRQ was fine, just a wonky sound card, replacement works beuatifully). If you know it allready, I'm sorry, but it will be usefull for many who don't:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

You may want to try optimizing your system for audio. This helps free up resources. There are some very helpful tips at the
following websites:

http://www.musicxp.net/tuning_tips.htm
www.pcaudiolabs.com

It sounds like you are having an IRQ conflict and there are not enough resources available. What IRQ is the card on?
To check:
Go to : START --> RUN --> type "msinfo32" --> OK --> Hardware Resources --> IRQ's

You want the card on its own IRQ. If it is sharing with the video card or ethernet or other devices it can cause
these types of problems. You will have to free up additional resources or try swapping PCI slots in order to get the card on
its own IRQ.
To check IRQs:
Go to : START --> RUN --> type "msinfo32" --> OK --> Hardware Resources --> IRQ's

You want to have the card on its own IRQ. You can try to switch slots after completely uninstalling the card
drivers to try and get it on a different IRQ. Slots 2 and 4 (from the top down) generally work the best.

You need to completely uninstall before swapping slots, otherwise it will still hold on the old IRQ. Here are the instructions for a complete manual uninstall.
-------------------------------------------------------------
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Old July 26th, 2004, 08:29 AM   #49
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Does anyone know anything about the Y Media sensor the SI-3170 uses???
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Old July 26th, 2004, 11:15 AM   #50
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Wow, just did a Google, looks nice, check these stats:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0009/00...dia3mpcmos.asp

Quote:
Today Y Media have announced the YM-3170A, a 1/2" 3.17 megapixel (2056 x 1544) CMOS sensor with a 3.3 Ám pixel pitch which is aimed at "digital still cameras, video cameras and HDTV camcorders" (the inclusion last two kind of make you wonder what quality of image this device produces). It can also run up to 30fps @ 640 x 480 (for live video previews / movie capture).
YM-3170A specifications (as published)

Array 2056 x 1544
Reference Rows / Columns 8 / 8
Pixel Pitch 3.3 Ám
Processing Geometry 0.25 Ám
Camera Sensitivty (F1) 0.5 lux
Conversion Gain (unity gain settings) 35 ÁV/e-
Cross Talk @ 600nm <5 %
Dark Current Density 1 nA/cm2
Dark Current Noise @ 295 K full res <2 e-
Dynamic Range (saturation capacity/read noise) 66 dB
Frame Rate (max) 30 fps
Optical Fill Factor (with microlenses) 80%
Optical Fill Factor (without microlenses) 40%
Photoresponse (non-linearity) 2%
Photoresponse (non-uniformity) 5%
Power Dissipation (nominal) 250 mW
Quantum Efficiency @ 540 nm w/o microlenses 65 %
Read Noise 20 e-
Saturation Capacity (full well capacity) 35 ke-
http://www.photonics.com/spectra/new...20/QX/read.htm

http://www.photonics.com/directory/X...QX/viewcop.htm

There in San Diego, California by the looks of it, haven't found a website yet.

Nite.
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Old July 26th, 2004, 11:46 AM   #51
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Thought I'd post it here instead

Wayne,
I wasn't really getting anywhere with this in the other thread, so I thought I'd post it here to see if suggestions could be made. I want to thank you for being a patient guy, concerned about helping a beginner. It is a testiment to you. Thanks. Anyway, here is the contents of my previous post...

Hey guys. I'm very elementary at this and I realize you guys aren't! So , if you have a chance, please let me know if this is good and proper. I'm ready to try this and was wondering if there is anything I'm missing here. Here are the links for the goods...

Camera...

http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productID=2490&search=1

Lens-to-body adapter for Canon EF lenses...

http://www.birger.com/html/ef232_home.htm

Hard drive for CameraLink connection...

http://www.leutron.com/english/product/lvmpc_d.htm

Now what am I missing? Something to view it with! Or, should I just capture to a laptop?

What's missing here to make this work?

What we need is a way, if I'm speculating correctly to import or capture this footage into a NLE. I have Final Cut, but this seems to be PC based technology. Anybody have suggestions? Best- Frank
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Old July 26th, 2004, 12:06 PM   #52
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Unfortunately not many of them come here, so hopefully some of them will try and reply to you tommorrow.

Reading all the threads help.

At the moment, the acquistion and controll programs are the big let down to doing real film production, but as I am a novice and haven't used that system I can't comment too well. But it has been discussed in the thread. There is also the problem that the present sodftware solutiuons are for Obins camera, they have yet to be verify for other cameras, or for non SI cameras, or made for Gigabit Ethernet, firewire and usb. It is still early stages yet, but if you are an experimenter than go ahead. If I find out that a simple interface profgram could pass commands/command line arguements to the existing software I will be most dissapionted myself.


Thanks

Wayne.
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Old July 26th, 2004, 05:21 PM   #53
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Frank,
I don't think this camera you are posting would be a good candidate (I maybe wrong).

I didn't see the rest of the links, but if you go the SLR way, please try to find an adapter thas has an optical path to shrink the projected image size to fit the sensor's one.
If you can't find one and you can't make yourself one, just buy a normal C-mount lens for that sensor size.

About hard drives, The Western Digital Raptor SATA disks have a transfer speed of 72 MB per second, so you probably won't need a RAID o setup.

I'd suggest you to wait and see if Sumix makes an update of the camera Ben's using now.
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Old July 26th, 2004, 07:16 PM   #54
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Juan, I think the sensor size is 2/3 cmos. That has to be close if not exact to what I have in my Canon 10D. Anyone know of software that could get this footage in to FCP for NLE. :)
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Old July 27th, 2004, 05:34 AM   #55
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I agree with Juan about the Sumix camera, even SI will have newer cameras to compare with it soon.

About FCP, at least one of the guys has a FCP person involved to evntually get it there, but read through the 10-bit thread, there has been much discussion on workflow, NLE, and FCP there (some maybe in the other threads aswell, I forget much of it).

Thanks

Wayne.
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Old July 27th, 2004, 05:36 AM   #56
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I agree with Juan about the Sumix 2/3" Altsens camera, even SI will have newer cameras to compare with it soon.

About FCP, at least one of the guys has a FCP person involved to evntually get it there, but read through the 10-bit thread, there has been much discussion on workflow, NLE, and FCP there (some maybe in the other threads aswell, I forget much of it).

Thanks

Wayne.
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Old July 27th, 2004, 10:59 AM   #57
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So basically, when a 2/3 or inch sensor cmos camera comes out with firwire, we eliminate the need for a framegrabber all together. What I'm wondering is the adjustments on the camera, such as white balance or gain, will be handled via the software or the hradware. Check this out...http://www.adept.net.au/



They seem to have everything.
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Old July 27th, 2004, 11:09 AM   #58
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Take a look at the 10bit thread, there is some stuff there about a alledged pricing of under $2000 for the JVC Altsens Box.

About the colour adjustment, it depends on how it is made. Ben apparently has no on camera control, Obin apparently does.

Thanks

Wayne.
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Old August 4th, 2004, 04:03 AM   #59
 
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So Wayne, I've been out of the loop for a bit, just kind of watching the various threads and not bringing in much input do to that i'm not that tecnically inclined. At one point I was going to bring in my girlfriend's father (an electrical engineer) to see f he had any interest in helping us create what we want, but after hearing Summix and SI were so boasting about how their cameras were weeks away, then I put that on hold. And chose to get other stuff done with my craft creatively and then help you guys when I could.

So what's the status? did any of those guys ever come out with a camera that's 10 bit or 12 bit 1080p with 4:2:2 color at up to 60 fps? One with a global shutter instead of a rolling one? One at 66 or 72 Mhz? What's the scoop.

Last I heard, there were several factions starting to be formed, some people going for the 720p cameras instead, and some going all pc instead of mac and some people are supposed to be writing stuff for and etc etc. etc.

Can you give me the quick up to date as to where we all stand now. I assume that with all this going on, that at least one company will soon put out a camera much described like the one above for little $$$. Which is the most important fact to know.

So fill me in when you have time please? .....

Thanks,

Laurence
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Old August 5th, 2004, 06:26 AM   #60
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Ohh the PIB factions are going strong, just leave them to it, and see what happens ;)

I've been wondering what happened to you, I was going to email.

The status is that the Altasens is delayed, SI are very close to a 1/2 inch 3?? Mpixel camera in the comming weeks. So in the next month or so we expect to see the SI camera, and after that soon the firewireB Sumix ALtasens cameras (the new guy, Ben, has posted something in Obins thread a week or so ago). There will be firewire and faster, one chip and three chip Sumix cameras planned, but delivery is another thing.

At the moment I can't remember, so reading all the threads is best.

We have Bayer people (one with his own software), people who want comrpession, and people that want to do FPGA. They should all remember to examine their code to see if replacing any of the inner routines (particularly Wndows/C routines) with machine code would greatly speed up processing. We are talking small parts with great potentiual efficiency gains.

Now for what everybody else doesn't know. I have a number of different confidential contacts about things, so I can't really say anything. But seperate camera, compression and mainboards improvements etc should be expected this year.

Next, Fovceon is not on the horizon.

In new interfaces SI is goping the Giga bit Ethernet path, and mainboards with dual Giga ethernet, and with Firewire b ports, are starting to turn up in the industry. Steve posted pictures of dual slope 12-bit shoots recently in the other thread, and Sumix is upgrading it's fillfactory sensor software to cram in more bits and use gamma curves (via lookup table).

Obin has found fault exposure smearing with his chip. He has improved his control of the camera. Rob.S has bought a camera. Steve N has offered to upgrade them to the new 3Mp cameras The sumix USB FIllfactory chip offers less sensitivity and colour. Ben, with the camera, has improved control of it. Somebody looked at a test chart of the 2.3Mp SI they thought it had between 4-5 stop range, Obin dissagreed. I think that if they adjust it a bit more it could be more than that, though Oblin's images don't appear to be too much more than that.

Cameras maybe soon, but there is nothing inbetween them, so what were you going to ask your Girlfreinds father help with?

Thanks

Wayne.
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