ARRI D-20 HD camera at DVinfo.net

Valeriu Campan · October 3rd, 2004, 02:18 AM

Check this beast at http://www.arri.com/infodown/cam/broch/d20_e.pdf.

Matthew Miller · October 6th, 2004, 12:14 AM

Wow. Did Arri make that 6megapixel cmos sensor themselves? Select between 3018x2200 12-bit RAW Bayer or 1920x1080 10-bit 4:4:4 at any rate between 1 and 60 FPS. Plus it always outputs a SD signal in NTSC or PAL no matter what mode you're shooting in. This one is on my list if the price is right....

So how much does it cost? That PDF is probably the most detailed presentation of one of these 'digital cinema' cameras yet.

Ken Tanaka · October 6th, 2004, 08:56 AM

Here's an NAB interview with cinematographer Michael Ballhaus in which he remarks on the Arri, as well as on digital video's state in general. It's an interesting piece.

I don't know what the purchase price of the camera would be, if it's offered for sale at all. I suspect most users would be professional crews who would rent the camera, as they would a Panavision. If it was offered for sale my guess would be in the $100,000-$120,000 range (without lenses). Charles Papert or Wayne Orr would certainly know more about the camera.

Clear your Visa balance.

Charlie McCarrick · October 7th, 2004, 11:17 PM

Yeah, around 100 k would be my guess. This is not a consumer HD cam made to compete with the FX1 and HD10. This is made to compete with the Cinealta and Varicam. But if I could afford this thing...oh yeah. Time for a change of underpants. And now, time for another.

Charlie McCarrick · October 7th, 2004, 11:36 PM

Hey. If you like the D20, check this thing out, if you dare.

http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/pr...f/viper_ds.pdf

Ken Tanaka · October 7th, 2004, 11:40 PM

The Viper has been around for some time. It's a good camera by all accounts.

Charles Papert · October 7th, 2004, 11:58 PM

A major difference between the D20 and the Viper is that the D20 imager is sized for standard 35mm lenses while the Viper is the classic 2/3"--in other words, the D20 will deliver 35mm depth of field. I think of the Cinealta and the Varicam as the 1st wave of HD, and the D20, the Panavision Genesis and the Dalsa (all three accept standard 35mm lenses) as the 2nd wave. The Viper is the bridge between the two waves.

I would expect the D20 to cost more than $100,000--probably more like $150-200,000. That's just a guess though.

Charlie McCarrick · October 8th, 2004, 12:50 AM

That's intense. The one crazy thing I noticed about the Viper is the massive resolution. Ballhaus says it's the closest to film he's seen. Also, can the Cinealta and D20 shoot at 1080p? I know this is common knowledge for these cams, but I don't know since I don't typically research things I can't afford! I've never even heard of the Genesis or Dalsa. Will the Genesis feature a mighty 16 bits of graphics processing power?

Charles Papert · October 8th, 2004, 01:20 AM

Genesis

Dalsa

The D20 is not intended by Arri to be the biggest, baddest HD camera around, more as a competitor to Super 16mm for TV production and modestly budgeted features. They are still promoting 35mm for high end production.

Charlie McCarrick · October 8th, 2004, 02:23 PM

12.4 mega pixel, true RGB sensor? I think I have to go to the bathroom. Scratch that...I just did.

Joshua Starnes · October 8th, 2004, 03:38 PM

That's intense. The one crazy thing I noticed about the Viper is the massive resolution. Ballhaus says it's the closest to film he's seen. Also, can the Cinealta and D20 shoot at 1080p? I know this is common knowledge for these cams, but I don't know since I don't typically research things I can't afford! I've never even heard of the Genesis or Dalsa. Will the Genesis feature a mighty 16 bits of graphics processing power?

Yes, they both shoot 1080p. The CineAlta was the first commerically available HD camera to originate in 1080p (the original CineAlta prototypes were used to record Star Wars Ep. II). The new CineAlta, the F950 (the original was the F900) has, by all reports, even better color rendition and latitude than the original, putting it on par with the Viper. With the way the HD industry is going right now, I expect the next rendition of the CineAlta (which would be the F1000 I guess?) to also use a 35mm sensor.

Aaron Shaw · October 8th, 2004, 04:30 PM

Makes you wonder how long it will be before people start making digital cameras with medium format size chip(s)...

Ken Tanaka · October 8th, 2004, 04:42 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Aaron Shaw : Makes you wonder how long it will be before people start making digital cameras with medium format size chip(s)... -->>>

If you're referring to still cameras, it already exists. Digital backs by Imacon and Leaf are already available for Hassleblads and Mamiyas. They're hideously expensive ($20,000+).

It's doubtful, however, that the medium format will survive long in the digital world. It's becoming increasingly unnecessary. The forthcoming Canon 1Ds Mark II features a full-frame (i.e. 35mm size) sensor and 16.7 Mp resolution.

Charlie McCarrick · October 8th, 2004, 08:53 PM

Until now, the Cinealta is really the only TOL pro HD cam I've read anything about, and that's only because it was used for Episode 2. I was lucky enough to see EP2 on a digital projector, and it looked truly SUPREME. It beat the pants off film easily. But that's probably just due to the inevitable degradation of film's IQ through transferring, viewing, etc.

Rai Orz · October 9th, 2004, 01:39 AM

The main differnt to Cinealta and others is the FULL SIZE sensor. Arri understand the importance of 35mm DOF. Whit this feature it beet all other cameras.

But there are other companys working on full size chip HD solutions. Just wait a few mounths.

October 3rd, 2004, 02:18 AM	#1
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	ARRI D-20 HD camera Check this beast at http://www.arri.com/infodown/cam/broch/d20_e.pdf.

October 6th, 2004, 12:14 AM	#2
Matthew Miller New Boot Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 20	Wow. Did Arri make that 6megapixel cmos sensor themselves? Select between 3018x2200 12-bit RAW Bayer or 1920x1080 10-bit 4:4:4 at any rate between 1 and 60 FPS. Plus it always outputs a SD signal in NTSC or PAL no matter what mode you're shooting in. This one is on my list if the price is right.... So how much does it cost? That PDF is probably the most detailed presentation of one of these 'digital cinema' cameras yet. __________________ This is where my optional signature could have been.

October 6th, 2004, 08:56 AM	#3
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Here's an NAB interview with cinematographer Michael Ballhaus in which he remarks on the Arri, as well as on digital video's state in general. It's an interesting piece. I don't know what the purchase price of the camera would be, if it's offered for sale at all. I suspect most users would be professional crews who would rent the camera, as they would a Panavision. If it was offered for sale my guess would be in the $100,000-$120,000 range (without lenses). Charles Papert or Wayne Orr would certainly know more about the camera. Clear your Visa balance. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

October 7th, 2004, 11:40 PM	#6
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	The Viper has been around for some time. It's a good camera by all accounts. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

October 7th, 2004, 11:58 PM	#7
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	A major difference between the D20 and the Viper is that the D20 imager is sized for standard 35mm lenses while the Viper is the classic 2/3"--in other words, the D20 will deliver 35mm depth of field. I think of the Cinealta and the Varicam as the 1st wave of HD, and the D20, the Panavision Genesis and the Dalsa (all three accept standard 35mm lenses) as the 2nd wave. The Viper is the bridge between the two waves. I would expect the D20 to cost more than $100,000--probably more like $150-200,000. That's just a guess though. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

October 7th, 2004, 11:17 PM	#4
Charlie McCarrick Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bridgewater, USA Posts: 44	Yeah, around 100 k would be my guess. This is not a consumer HD cam made to compete with the FX1 and HD10. This is made to compete with the Cinealta and Varicam. But if I could afford this thing...oh yeah. Time for a change of underpants. And now, time for another.

October 7th, 2004, 11:36 PM	#5
Charlie McCarrick Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bridgewater, USA Posts: 44	Hey. If you like the D20, check this thing out, if you dare. http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/pr...f/viper_ds.pdf

October 8th, 2004, 12:50 AM	#8
Charlie McCarrick Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bridgewater, USA Posts: 44	That's intense. The one crazy thing I noticed about the Viper is the massive resolution. Ballhaus says it's the closest to film he's seen. Also, can the Cinealta and D20 shoot at 1080p? I know this is common knowledge for these cams, but I don't know since I don't typically research things I can't afford! I've never even heard of the Genesis or Dalsa. Will the Genesis feature a mighty 16 bits of graphics processing power?

October 8th, 2004, 01:20 AM	#9
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Genesis Dalsa The D20 is not intended by Arri to be the biggest, baddest HD camera around, more as a competitor to Super 16mm for TV production and modestly budgeted features. They are still promoting 35mm for high end production. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

October 8th, 2004, 02:23 PM	#10
Charlie McCarrick Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bridgewater, USA Posts: 44	12.4 mega pixel, true RGB sensor? I think I have to go to the bathroom. Scratch that...I just did.

October 8th, 2004, 03:38 PM	#11
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	That's intense. The one crazy thing I noticed about the Viper is the massive resolution. Ballhaus says it's the closest to film he's seen. Also, can the Cinealta and D20 shoot at 1080p? I know this is common knowledge for these cams, but I don't know since I don't typically research things I can't afford! I've never even heard of the Genesis or Dalsa. Will the Genesis feature a mighty 16 bits of graphics processing power? Yes, they both shoot 1080p. The CineAlta was the first commerically available HD camera to originate in 1080p (the original CineAlta prototypes were used to record Star Wars Ep. II). The new CineAlta, the F950 (the original was the F900) has, by all reports, even better color rendition and latitude than the original, putting it on par with the Viper. With the way the HD industry is going right now, I expect the next rendition of the CineAlta (which would be the F1000 I guess?) to also use a 35mm sensor.

October 8th, 2004, 04:30 PM	#12
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Makes you wonder how long it will be before people start making digital cameras with medium format size chip(s)...

October 8th, 2004, 04:42 PM	#13
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	<<<-- Originally posted by Aaron Shaw : Makes you wonder how long it will be before people start making digital cameras with medium format size chip(s)... -->>> If you're referring to still cameras, it already exists. Digital backs by Imacon and Leaf are already available for Hassleblads and Mamiyas. They're hideously expensive ($20,000+). It's doubtful, however, that the medium format will survive long in the digital world. It's becoming increasingly unnecessary. The forthcoming Canon 1Ds Mark II features a full-frame (i.e. 35mm size) sensor and 16.7 Mp resolution. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

October 8th, 2004, 08:53 PM	#14
Charlie McCarrick Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bridgewater, USA Posts: 44	Until now, the Cinealta is really the only TOL pro HD cam I've read anything about, and that's only because it was used for Episode 2. I was lucky enough to see EP2 on a digital projector, and it looked truly SUPREME. It beat the pants off film easily. But that's probably just due to the inevitable degradation of film's IQ through transferring, viewing, etc.

October 9th, 2004, 01:39 AM	#15
Rai Orz Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 136	The main differnt to Cinealta and others is the FULL SIZE sensor. Arri understand the importance of 35mm DOF. Whit this feature it beet all other cameras. But there are other companys working on full size chip HD solutions. Just wait a few mounths.