Microcrystalline Wax Techniques?

Jim Lafferty · December 31st, 2004, 02:15 PM

I've contacted S&P for another 1lb block of wax -- mine has gone through so many reheats and has been left in less than optimally clean areas, so I'm looking to get another block next week.

In the meantime, I've gone through not one but two thick-walled glass jars that were originally used for pickling -- after a series of reheats at 350+ degrees, they eventually cracked at the bottom, leaking wax into their surrounding dishes. So, I've done a little research and for anyone following along, I will be ordering a borosilicate beaker.

Here are links to where they can be ordered -- American Science Surplus has them for the least amount:

http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=4

http://www.scientificsonline.com/product.asp?cs=p&pn=3082326

http://www.hometrainingtools.com/catalog/chemistry/glassware-plasticware/cat_beakers-flasks.html

600ml should be large enough, is my guess...

The screw compressor clamp found here might be a good alternative to tape? :

http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=4&category=44

Keep on keepin' on -- happy new year, everyone!

- jim

Bob Hart · December 31st, 2004, 08:23 PM

Compression might be a problem for you as the glass yields then remembers that which it once was when you release the pressure. The wax layer may separate or if there is a depression some distance in which binds the glass distortion, you may get a localised area of greater transparency.

If you have time to experiment, try making a gg which has the full thickness of spacer on one edge and face to face contact on the other. The best thickess for wax should be apparent as a straight area across the gg. I did this fairly roughly for my wax composite disks with microscope slides but I didn't refine it any furthur than arriving at one thickness of cooking foil being best for me.

If you can mike the thickness of your spacer material, then measure across the gg to the best area and calculate that value as a fraction of the thickness of the widest part of the layer which you know.

That fraction is found by measuring from the directly contacting edge total (= 0) directly across to the point on the gg where the layer performs best.

Then you should be able to calculate the ideal wax layer thickness. It may be possible to find some shim metal from a precision machine shop which is that thickness for your permanent spacer.

I failed maths from year 5 onwards but it should go something like this as an example, assuming you have a 52mm diameter gg.

Measured across gg :-

Left Edge Layer Thickness - full contact = 0mm.
Right Edge Layer Thickness - spacer = 0.25mm.

Left Edge to best gg = 13.5mm.
Left Edge to right edge (width) = 52mm.

Divide 52mm by 13.5mm. Should = 1/4.
Divide 0.25mm by 1/4. Should = ideal layer.

Jim Lafferty · January 20th, 2005, 11:11 PM

Just got note of B&H having more F-to-C mount adapters in stock -- with this and a bunch of new tools, I'm gearing up to do the microwax adapter right. I'll have some stuff up end of next week, if all goes well.

- jim

Jonny Dee · January 21st, 2005, 08:32 AM

Hi Jim, Thanks for all your work on the wax method. I've been tweeking my process little by little and feel I'm getting there but am still getting the tiny bubbles in the wax appearing. How have you gotten around this?

Also do you have a link to that F-C Mount part on the B&H site? I'm guessing it adapts from the threading of a 52/58mm filter ring to a typical camera lens mount? That would be superb if it were true as its the one part of the equation that I haven't figured out.

Thanks

Jon

Frank Ladner · January 21st, 2005, 08:51 AM

Jonny,

I have found the best method for making a wax-free glass is not to let the wax fill in between the glass, but to put the two separate pieces together under the melted wax, with a spacer inbetween. This is my new way of working, thanks to recommendations by others, and I find it is very effective in getting a clean glass.

The problem would be with keeping the spacer inbetween the glass and keeping the two pieces of glass in alignment.

I happened to have a round metal piece (came off the front of a Pentax lens) that my glass pieces would fit in perfectly.

I put the stuff in the wax, inserting it sideways to prevent bubbles, in the following order:

- Round 'holding' piece
- First glass
- Spacer
- Second glass
- Weight

The spacer can be aluminum strips, although they would be hard to work with under liquid. In my case, I had a round, thin metal strip from a Mamiya camera (taken from between the screw-mount and the camera body).
You could, however, wrap a bigger piece of aluminum around the glass, folding a couple of strips over the side
for spacers.

The weight needs to be as close as possible to the diameter of the glass, so that the pressure is equally distributed.

I still don't feel like I have the best workflow, but when/if I develop it into a smooth process, I would be willing to take pictures and make a tutorial.

Jim Lafferty · January 21st, 2005, 11:41 AM

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/sitem/sk...&is=REG&bi=E15

Not quite sure how it would be fitted for a screw-on type mount -- I glued my last two in place :D

- jim

Donnie Wagner · January 21st, 2005, 04:51 PM

I worked with a company that employed a polymer scientist. He was working on molding high performance plastics. He developed a process of molding at the melt temp, and then spraying the outside of the mold with liquid nitrogen (very cold). His goal was to get the plastic to crystalize as quickly as possible because he said it would create the smallest possible crystalites.

My though was, as an experiment, you could take a glass/wax/glass GG that's finished, heat it back up till the wax goes clear, and then cool it rapidly, maybe place it between two metal plates that you chilled in the freezer. If small crystalites = fine grain, might be interesting.

Aaron Shaw · January 21st, 2005, 09:51 PM

Could be an interesting experiment! I have access to some LN2 so I may give this or something similar a try!

Jim Lafferty · January 22nd, 2005, 12:26 AM

Donnie,

I could be wrong, but I think that the two are different -- plastic is a chemical that when submitted to shocking temperature changes, might form "crystalites" -- microcrystalline wax has actual bits of crystal suspended in the emulsion.

I doubt such tactics would do good things to glass :/

- jim

Donnie Wagner · January 24th, 2005, 10:53 AM

"I doubt such tactics would do good things to glass :/"

I dont think that a quick temperature change would do anything to glass. I think it may give you finer crystals as the wax crystalizes. Just a thought for an easy experiment.

Donnie Wagner · January 24th, 2005, 11:00 AM

Jim,
I see what you are saying. I'm not sure about the "microcrystalline" part... They may be adding some type of silica crystals that would not melt at the low temperatures that wax melts, so you'd be right, those crystals are of definite size and shape and couldn't be changed without exceeding their melt point. But the wax itself forms crystals, as it goes from liquid to solid, regardless of what may be suspended in the solution. So maybe keeping those wax cyrstals as small as possible via a rapid cool down would help?

Keith Kline · January 30th, 2005, 11:48 PM

hi. I haven't posted on this thread before, but I'm currently working on a 35mm lens adapter for my Canon Xl1s. I have been following the posts about microcystalline wax and I just had a few questions. I'm assuming by the thread that people are making these wax GG pieces in attepts to come up with something similar to the bosscreen product. Is that correct? I was just wondering if anyone has actually tried an actual gg from from bosscreen? I was checking out their site and the glass doesn't seem cheap, but I was wondering if someone had tried that and that's what started the idea about the microcrystaline wax or was it the movietube, since it seems like it uses so combination of wax and glass as GG?

I just contacted a place local to me that is supposed to do custom blends of wax to find out what they have that might work. Also I'm going to look next time I'm near there, but there is something call Micro Wax which is an additive for candle making. (my girlfriend used to make candles before moving on to soaps). From what I understand the Micro Wax is microcrytalline wax. I wonder if anyone has tried this? It can be found at most craft stores. In the US places like Jo-Ann Fabrics and Michael's. I don't know how the costs compare to the places online, but I just thought it might be another option.

I'm looking forward to trying to make my own wax GG sometime soon and I was wondering if anyone else has been making any progress on them.

Frank Ladner · January 31st, 2005, 09:38 AM

Hi Keith!

I haven't heard of a Micro Wax additive, but next time I'm at Michael's I'll see if I can find it. Would be nice if they carried it - I'd like to have a local supplier since I'm running low on the free sample and I don't like to keep asking for more. (And a minimum purchase order is like 50 LBS or so.)

What got me started with microcrystalline wax was the MovieTube description on MovieTube.com that mentioned a "special developed microcrystalline grain screen".

I'm not sure if they use microcrystalline wax specifically, but I can tell you that it is an excellent material for static adapters. I don't think ground glass, no matter what grit used, could be as grain-free as microcrystalline.

The difficulty is getting a bubble-free, debris-free layer between two pieces of glass, and getting a layer of the right thickness so that you don't lose a lot of light. A lot of us do-it-yourselfers are limited in tools, so there is really no automated process.

Jim Lafferty · January 31st, 2005, 09:58 AM

I'm not certain, but I would bet any micro wax that you're going to find at a hobby shop is actually a blended wax that has a very low melting point -- it basically comes out of a canister looking/feeling like an opaque-white vaseline. It's used to blend with oil paints to make the paint last longer without cracks, or for rubbing into the surfaces of wood as a preserving varnish.

I purchased a bit a while back and it doesn't work.

However, I could be guessing completely wrong -- I know that Pearl art stores do in fact carry blocks of solid micro wax -- only it's not bleached, and is a very deep brown.

I've been meaning to get back to my adapter progress but with friends and family visiting and my current job situation being shifted around, I haven't had the time for a good night's sleep let alone to work properly on the micro wax screen :(

After next week things will have settled down significantly for me, so sometime around then I hope to make some strides, then post a tutorial, provided things turn out well.

- jim

Keith Kline · January 31st, 2005, 11:58 AM

Thanks for all the info guys. If I remember correctly Michael's had the stuff I'm talking about. Like I said it's been awhile since my girlfriend has used the stuff, but if i remember correctly it's a additive for parafine wax. It's used for candles that will be poured into a container to make the wax stick to the sides of the container. If i remember it looks like white beads of wax and it comes in a little bag. I just did a quick search and came up with this page...

http://candles.genwax.com/candles/___0___Z40M96W.htm

That might give you some more info. I'm gonna try to pick some up to try later today maybe if i get over that way. I'll let you guys know what i find out. I'm still waiting to hear back from the wax supplier I emailed that is local to me to see what they have.

I also have an idea about removing the air bubbles, but I'm not sure if it'll work. I have to contact my friend who does special FX to see if it might work.

I'll fill you guys in if i have any luck. Thanks again for the info.

December 31st, 2004, 02:15 PM	#106
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	I've contacted S&P for another 1lb block of wax -- mine has gone through so many reheats and has been left in less than optimally clean areas, so I'm looking to get another block next week. In the meantime, I've gone through not one but two thick-walled glass jars that were originally used for pickling -- after a series of reheats at 350+ degrees, they eventually cracked at the bottom, leaking wax into their surrounding dishes. So, I've done a little research and for anyone following along, I will be ordering a borosilicate beaker. Here are links to where they can be ordered -- American Science Surplus has them for the least amount: http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=4 http://www.scientificsonline.com/product.asp?cs=p&pn=3082326 http://www.hometrainingtools.com/catalog/chemistry/glassware-plasticware/cat_beakers-flasks.html 600ml should be large enough, is my guess... The screw compressor clamp found here might be a good alternative to tape? : http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=4&category=44 Keep on keepin' on -- happy new year, everyone! - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

January 21st, 2005, 08:32 AM	#109
Jonny Dee New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 16	F-to-C mount Hi Jim, Thanks for all your work on the wax method. I've been tweeking my process little by little and feel I'm getting there but am still getting the tiny bubbles in the wax appearing. How have you gotten around this? Also do you have a link to that F-C Mount part on the B&H site? I'm guessing it adapts from the threading of a 52/58mm filter ring to a typical camera lens mount? That would be superb if it were true as its the one part of the equation that I haven't figured out. Thanks Jon

January 21st, 2005, 11:41 AM	#111
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	http://www.bhphotovideo.com/sitem/sk...&is=REG&bi=E15 Not quite sure how it would be fitted for a screw-on type mount -- I glued my last two in place :D - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

January 21st, 2005, 04:51 PM	#112
Donnie Wagner Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 135	Crystalites I worked with a company that employed a polymer scientist. He was working on molding high performance plastics. He developed a process of molding at the melt temp, and then spraying the outside of the mold with liquid nitrogen (very cold). His goal was to get the plastic to crystalize as quickly as possible because he said it would create the smallest possible crystalites. My though was, as an experiment, you could take a glass/wax/glass GG that's finished, heat it back up till the wax goes clear, and then cool it rapidly, maybe place it between two metal plates that you chilled in the freezer. If small crystalites = fine grain, might be interesting.

January 24th, 2005, 10:53 AM	#115
Donnie Wagner Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 135	Jim, "I doubt such tactics would do good things to glass :/" I dont think that a quick temperature change would do anything to glass. I think it may give you finer crystals as the wax crystalizes. Just a thought for an easy experiment.

December 31st, 2004, 08:23 PM	#107
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	Compression might be a problem for you as the glass yields then remembers that which it once was when you release the pressure. The wax layer may separate or if there is a depression some distance in which binds the glass distortion, you may get a localised area of greater transparency. If you have time to experiment, try making a gg which has the full thickness of spacer on one edge and face to face contact on the other. The best thickess for wax should be apparent as a straight area across the gg. I did this fairly roughly for my wax composite disks with microscope slides but I didn't refine it any furthur than arriving at one thickness of cooking foil being best for me. If you can mike the thickness of your spacer material, then measure across the gg to the best area and calculate that value as a fraction of the thickness of the widest part of the layer which you know. That fraction is found by measuring from the directly contacting edge total (= 0) directly across to the point on the gg where the layer performs best. Then you should be able to calculate the ideal wax layer thickness. It may be possible to find some shim metal from a precision machine shop which is that thickness for your permanent spacer. I failed maths from year 5 onwards but it should go something like this as an example, assuming you have a 52mm diameter gg. Measured across gg :- Left Edge Layer Thickness - full contact = 0mm. Right Edge Layer Thickness - spacer = 0.25mm. Left Edge to best gg = 13.5mm. Left Edge to right edge (width) = 52mm. Divide 52mm by 13.5mm. Should = 1/4. Divide 0.25mm by 1/4. Should = ideal layer.

January 20th, 2005, 11:11 PM	#108
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Just got note of B&H having more F-to-C mount adapters in stock -- with this and a bunch of new tools, I'm gearing up to do the microwax adapter right. I'll have some stuff up end of next week, if all goes well. - jim

January 21st, 2005, 08:51 AM	#110
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Jonny, I have found the best method for making a wax-free glass is not to let the wax fill in between the glass, but to put the two separate pieces together under the melted wax, with a spacer inbetween. This is my new way of working, thanks to recommendations by others, and I find it is very effective in getting a clean glass. The problem would be with keeping the spacer inbetween the glass and keeping the two pieces of glass in alignment. I happened to have a round metal piece (came off the front of a Pentax lens) that my glass pieces would fit in perfectly. I put the stuff in the wax, inserting it sideways to prevent bubbles, in the following order: - Round 'holding' piece - First glass - Spacer - Second glass - Weight The spacer can be aluminum strips, although they would be hard to work with under liquid. In my case, I had a round, thin metal strip from a Mamiya camera (taken from between the screw-mount and the camera body). You could, however, wrap a bigger piece of aluminum around the glass, folding a couple of strips over the side for spacers. The weight needs to be as close as possible to the diameter of the glass, so that the pressure is equally distributed. I still don't feel like I have the best workflow, but when/if I develop it into a smooth process, I would be willing to take pictures and make a tutorial.

January 21st, 2005, 09:51 PM	#113
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Could be an interesting experiment! I have access to some LN2 so I may give this or something similar a try!

January 22nd, 2005, 12:26 AM	#114
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Donnie, I could be wrong, but I think that the two are different -- plastic is a chemical that when submitted to shocking temperature changes, might form "crystalites" -- microcrystalline wax has actual bits of crystal suspended in the emulsion. I doubt such tactics would do good things to glass :/ - jim

January 24th, 2005, 11:00 AM	#116
Donnie Wagner Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 135	Oh, OK Jim, I see what you are saying. I'm not sure about the "microcrystalline" part... They may be adding some type of silica crystals that would not melt at the low temperatures that wax melts, so you'd be right, those crystals are of definite size and shape and couldn't be changed without exceeding their melt point. But the wax itself forms crystals, as it goes from liquid to solid, regardless of what may be suspended in the solution. So maybe keeping those wax cyrstals as small as possible via a rapid cool down would help?

January 30th, 2005, 11:48 PM	#117
Keith Kline Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 153	Bosscreens and Wax hi. I haven't posted on this thread before, but I'm currently working on a 35mm lens adapter for my Canon Xl1s. I have been following the posts about microcystalline wax and I just had a few questions. I'm assuming by the thread that people are making these wax GG pieces in attepts to come up with something similar to the bosscreen product. Is that correct? I was just wondering if anyone has actually tried an actual gg from from bosscreen? I was checking out their site and the glass doesn't seem cheap, but I was wondering if someone had tried that and that's what started the idea about the microcrystaline wax or was it the movietube, since it seems like it uses so combination of wax and glass as GG? I just contacted a place local to me that is supposed to do custom blends of wax to find out what they have that might work. Also I'm going to look next time I'm near there, but there is something call Micro Wax which is an additive for candle making. (my girlfriend used to make candles before moving on to soaps). From what I understand the Micro Wax is microcrytalline wax. I wonder if anyone has tried this? It can be found at most craft stores. In the US places like Jo-Ann Fabrics and Michael's. I don't know how the costs compare to the places online, but I just thought it might be another option. I'm looking forward to trying to make my own wax GG sometime soon and I was wondering if anyone else has been making any progress on them.

January 31st, 2005, 09:38 AM	#118
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Hi Keith! I haven't heard of a Micro Wax additive, but next time I'm at Michael's I'll see if I can find it. Would be nice if they carried it - I'd like to have a local supplier since I'm running low on the free sample and I don't like to keep asking for more. (And a minimum purchase order is like 50 LBS or so.) What got me started with microcrystalline wax was the MovieTube description on MovieTube.com that mentioned a "special developed microcrystalline grain screen". I'm not sure if they use microcrystalline wax specifically, but I can tell you that it is an excellent material for static adapters. I don't think ground glass, no matter what grit used, could be as grain-free as microcrystalline. The difficulty is getting a bubble-free, debris-free layer between two pieces of glass, and getting a layer of the right thickness so that you don't lose a lot of light. A lot of us do-it-yourselfers are limited in tools, so there is really no automated process.

January 31st, 2005, 09:58 AM	#119
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	I'm not certain, but I would bet any micro wax that you're going to find at a hobby shop is actually a blended wax that has a very low melting point -- it basically comes out of a canister looking/feeling like an opaque-white vaseline. It's used to blend with oil paints to make the paint last longer without cracks, or for rubbing into the surfaces of wood as a preserving varnish. I purchased a bit a while back and it doesn't work. However, I could be guessing completely wrong -- I know that Pearl art stores do in fact carry blocks of solid micro wax -- only it's not bleached, and is a very deep brown. I've been meaning to get back to my adapter progress but with friends and family visiting and my current job situation being shifted around, I haven't had the time for a good night's sleep let alone to work properly on the micro wax screen :( After next week things will have settled down significantly for me, so sometime around then I hope to make some strides, then post a tutorial, provided things turn out well. - jim

January 31st, 2005, 11:58 AM	#120
Keith Kline Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 153	Thanks for all the info guys. If I remember correctly Michael's had the stuff I'm talking about. Like I said it's been awhile since my girlfriend has used the stuff, but if i remember correctly it's a additive for parafine wax. It's used for candles that will be poured into a container to make the wax stick to the sides of the container. If i remember it looks like white beads of wax and it comes in a little bag. I just did a quick search and came up with this page... http://candles.genwax.com/candles/___0___Z40M96W.htm That might give you some more info. I'm gonna try to pick some up to try later today maybe if i get over that way. I'll let you guys know what i find out. I'm still waiting to hear back from the wax supplier I emailed that is local to me to see what they have. I also have an idea about removing the air bubbles, but I'm not sure if it'll work. I have to contact my friend who does special FX to see if it might work. I'll fill you guys in if i have any luck. Thanks again for the info.