Rai & Markus' "Drake" HD camera

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · October 18th, 2005, 05:52 PM

Yes, sure.Problem is Filippov doesn't want to give support to this kind of project.
I asked him many times, but his replies were short.He even says it is not possible to shoot using his cameras...

Wayne Morellini · October 18th, 2005, 11:42 PM

I'll pay that Ronald.

Good price. Originally I was skeptical about the camera, but I mistook which codec it had. I'd still prefer Gige for obvious reasons.

So what can you tell us about video editing, capture, quality (culling detail etc) any bayer mode, or 4:2:2, 4:4:4? Any IBIS/Altasens planned. He was planning on doing something suitable here.

Juan,

I'm interest in what you said. Why did Filippov say that it wasn't suitable, does the low bit rate codec cull too much detail, or is capture software a problem?

Have another observation, sometime ago I posted and article about an new integrated Mpixel camera chip with DSP, compression and USB output on the technical thread. Something like this would be a cheap option to build a camera around.

Obin Olson · October 20th, 2005, 05:34 AM

i am really really looking forward to the Russian camera, I have been shooting with the CineSpeedCAM the last few days, it shoots 1000fps, and it's inch format cmos has GREAT DOF!

Levan Bakhia · October 21st, 2005, 02:30 PM

Now, this is 1080p, it is shot thru widnow, I asked them to do so, because I wanted to evaluate how the motion in real speed (not high speed) looked like. See for yourself.

www.ctt.ru/files/demo/monorels.rar

and please your opions :*)

For last two days I was busy shooting with Photron high speed camera, I shot the commercial, it also had 1' sensor, and it did such a great job, when I finalize the post production and the camera is I will post a link to it. Some shots I was shooting with 4000fps, it is amazing what you get, I would love to have camera like that, but I had to hire it from London and it was expensive to rent.

But, after all this I can say for sure now, that CMOS technology is much film like than CCD, I have no idea why, I don't know the logics behind, and I am not a technicaian to know how it works, but I am judging from the end result. CMOS with the cine lenses are so artistic looking, and it carries all the emotion and feeling, and it is the same with all the CMOS cameras I know.

Obin Olson · October 21st, 2005, 11:12 PM

thanks for the info, I am downloading now your file. What is the status of the RUssian camera?

Levan Bakhia · October 24th, 2005, 01:01 AM

The status of the camera is that I have tickets for Moscow on 27th of October. As I was told the camera is ready, they just had some problems with Decklink card either because they mesed up the operating system in the computer they use or their own drivers screwed up. Camera is recording without problems to any uncompressed HD video recorder thou.

But the last file I posted a link to, was not impressive at all, actually it was shot from the window (maybe tinted), or something, but the picture seems to be so unclear. What do you think? It could be the window, and they worned me, that the picture is thru window, I just asked them to send me anything in normal speed so that I could evaluate the motion of the picture. Well in terms of the motion I am happy but the picture is kind of colorless.

Today or tomorrow I am expecting some more clips from them and I will post right away. But please comment, I want your opinions.

Obin Olson · October 24th, 2005, 08:11 AM

Bayer cameras all have low color to start with, I think that the camera needs processing to look good, I have never seen a raw camera that looked good till you pos it. as long as your getting true raw 10bit out you should not worry, unless they are using a crappy chip.

Levan Bakhia · October 24th, 2005, 01:24 PM

But then, how can I know if I am getting true raw 10bit and is the chip crappy? The only thing I can evaluate is the picture I get. What you think about what you have downloaded, does it look ok? I am not worried about the filmic look as overall in terms of DOF and motion blur, and 24p and so on, the only thing was that the colors were so low, but more than that is that it was kind of unclear picture, but maybe I am wrong.

?

Obin Olson · October 24th, 2005, 01:51 PM

what is the model and brand of CMOS? is it Kodak? Micron? etc?? FIllFactory?

Omar Saad · October 24th, 2005, 03:55 PM

Levan, it should be a Fillfactory chip, right? You said that they told you it was the same manufacturer as the one for the D-20 (only a smaller chip) and I believe that Fillfactory makes that one if I am not mistaken.

David Newman · October 24th, 2005, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obin Olson

Bayer cameras all have low color to start with, I think that the camera needs processing to look good, I have never seen a raw camera that looked good till you pos it. as long as your getting true raw 10bit out you should not worry, unless they are using a crappy chip.

"True raw 10-bit" sounds limited. As sensors are linear use need at least 12-bits of linear data to get reasonable (low noise) log or gamma corrected 10-bit output.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm

Obin Olson · October 24th, 2005, 10:15 PM

right you are David, my bad ;)

Obin Olson · October 24th, 2005, 10:21 PM

maybe it's the LUPA4000 chip by fillfactory?

Obin Olson · October 24th, 2005, 10:30 PM

Levan please ask for a 50mm lens shot of a person with a light on them...I want to see DOF and also skin from that chip ASAP

thanks!

Alexander Kitaev · October 25th, 2005, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obin Olson

Levan please ask for a 50mm lens shot of a person with a light on them...I want to see DOF and also skin from that chip ASAP

thanks!

Hi ALL,
Obin, You may ask me Yourself-))),
about camera status: this week we’ll have new body case,
and start testing new demosaic soft, with linear we have a lot of artifacts and focusing problems.
(as You may see on our pictures-))))
I think in two days we’ll be ready with new pictures,
Levan, sorry for delay, first- we need to test Blackmagic for receiving Bayer from camera for offline demosaic and color correction. (our one -dead, we waiting new one)
we started new project with photo lenses, any ideas? first I want to discuss- do You need optic converter or it’s ok without, what resolution is enough?

Best Regards,
Alexander Kitaev
www.ctt.ru
info@ctt.ru
kit@1tv.ru

October 21st, 2005, 02:30 PM	#349
Levan Bakhia Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 230	Another Russian Camera SHOT (Obin ) Now, this is 1080p, it is shot thru widnow, I asked them to do so, because I wanted to evaluate how the motion in real speed (not high speed) looked like. See for yourself. www.ctt.ru/files/demo/monorels.rar and please your opions :*) For last two days I was busy shooting with Photron high speed camera, I shot the commercial, it also had 1' sensor, and it did such a great job, when I finalize the post production and the camera is I will post a link to it. Some shots I was shooting with 4000fps, it is amazing what you get, I would love to have camera like that, but I had to hire it from London and it was expensive to rent. But, after all this I can say for sure now, that CMOS technology is much film like than CCD, I have no idea why, I don't know the logics behind, and I am not a technicaian to know how it works, but I am judging from the end result. CMOS with the cine lenses are so artistic looking, and it carries all the emotion and feeling, and it is the same with all the CMOS cameras I know.

October 18th, 2005, 05:52 PM	#346
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	Yes, sure.Problem is Filippov doesn't want to give support to this kind of project. I asked him many times, but his replies were short.He even says it is not possible to shoot using his cameras...

October 18th, 2005, 11:42 PM	#347
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	I'll pay that Ronald. Good price. Originally I was skeptical about the camera, but I mistook which codec it had. I'd still prefer Gige for obvious reasons. So what can you tell us about video editing, capture, quality (culling detail etc) any bayer mode, or 4:2:2, 4:4:4? Any IBIS/Altasens planned. He was planning on doing something suitable here. Juan, I'm interest in what you said. Why did Filippov say that it wasn't suitable, does the low bit rate codec cull too much detail, or is capture software a problem? Have another observation, sometime ago I posted and article about an new integrated Mpixel camera chip with DSP, compression and USB output on the technical thread. Something like this would be a cheap option to build a camera around.

October 20th, 2005, 05:34 AM	#348
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	i am really really looking forward to the Russian camera, I have been shooting with the CineSpeedCAM the last few days, it shoots 1000fps, and it's inch format cmos has GREAT DOF!

October 21st, 2005, 11:12 PM	#350
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	thanks for the info, I am downloading now your file. What is the status of the RUssian camera?

October 24th, 2005, 01:01 AM	#351
Levan Bakhia Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 230	The status of the camera is that I have tickets for Moscow on 27th of October. As I was told the camera is ready, they just had some problems with Decklink card either because they mesed up the operating system in the computer they use or their own drivers screwed up. Camera is recording without problems to any uncompressed HD video recorder thou. But the last file I posted a link to, was not impressive at all, actually it was shot from the window (maybe tinted), or something, but the picture seems to be so unclear. What do you think? It could be the window, and they worned me, that the picture is thru window, I just asked them to send me anything in normal speed so that I could evaluate the motion of the picture. Well in terms of the motion I am happy but the picture is kind of colorless. Today or tomorrow I am expecting some more clips from them and I will post right away. But please comment, I want your opinions.

October 24th, 2005, 08:11 AM	#352
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	Bayer cameras all have low color to start with, I think that the camera needs processing to look good, I have never seen a raw camera that looked good till you pos it. as long as your getting true raw 10bit out you should not worry, unless they are using a crappy chip.

October 24th, 2005, 01:24 PM	#353
Levan Bakhia Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 230	But then, how can I know if I am getting true raw 10bit and is the chip crappy? The only thing I can evaluate is the picture I get. What you think about what you have downloaded, does it look ok? I am not worried about the filmic look as overall in terms of DOF and motion blur, and 24p and so on, the only thing was that the colors were so low, but more than that is that it was kind of unclear picture, but maybe I am wrong. ?

October 24th, 2005, 01:51 PM	#354
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	what is the model and brand of CMOS? is it Kodak? Micron? etc?? FIllFactory?

October 24th, 2005, 03:55 PM	#355
Omar Saad Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA Posts: 38	Levan, it should be a Fillfactory chip, right? You said that they told you it was the same manufacturer as the one for the D-20 (only a smaller chip) and I believe that Fillfactory makes that one if I am not mistaken.

October 24th, 2005, 10:15 PM	#357
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	right you are David, my bad ;)

October 24th, 2005, 10:21 PM	#358
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	maybe it's the LUPA4000 chip by fillfactory?

October 24th, 2005, 10:30 PM	#359
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	Levan please ask for a 50mm lens shot of a person with a light on them...I want to see DOF and also skin from that chip ASAP thanks!