Macro's and colour separation?

Leo Mandy · March 10th, 2005, 08:19 PM

I understand now what you are saying, but finding a way to get it to move/oscillate is another matter. I would love to find a beattie and use it, but will they cut one that will fit like a CD?

Dan Diaconu · March 10th, 2005, 08:30 PM

>>>>finding a way......<<<<<

yes,...that is true.
to shake or not to shake.......
I have done what I have done for I do not know any better....
The biggest they make is 60/60mm.

Leo Mandy · March 10th, 2005, 08:57 PM

I guess that is why your device is such a enigma (in a good way). You have managed to come up with something that I cannot emulate in my wildest dreams! For that I salute you.

But for me, I am going to have to try and find a Teleconverter 1.6X to use instead of the macro (but I was quoted a $200+ price tag - much higher than I want to spend). I am having too hard of a time trying to get it to work. I like 7+, but it is not enough for me AND 10+ has too much blurring at the edges. I can't win it seems. I guess I am going to have to deal with well-lit situations and a condenser to even out the hotspot because that is my only way to fix my problem - with the unit I have. Yes, if I decide to build an oscillating unit, I will go with the beattie/fresnel. I had an idea for an oscillation, but I don't know if it will work or not.
Tonight, I opened up my unit and re-measured the CD to the unit so that it was equal all distances around- tomorrow I am going to remeasure the focal range (it is a lens for a Nikon camera, so I am hoping I can use the 46.5mm range).

Do you think this would work as a teleconverter :

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30059&item=3879623487&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Thanks

Dan Diaconu · March 10th, 2005, 10:52 PM

Leo,
I salute you as well for trying as hard as you are. That is true merit.
Well lit or poor lit, any GG will give you a hotspot (if it is spinning, you will not see the grain, however, the light loss of some 2 stops is there and the hotspot is still there)
The converter of eBay is for Canon lens. You can use that mounting a Canon lens on it and then, the converter on an SLR Canon camera. If you have a 1.8/50mm lens, the converter will make it into a 4/100mm lens. It will not work on your camcorder.
What camcorder do you have?

Leo Mandy · March 11th, 2005, 06:55 AM

Dan,

I have the PV-DV852 from Panasonic. If I win the bid for the item, I will have to fashion is somehow to work with my camera, though I don't know how.

Also, if I buy a frensel or beattie, although I know it won't get rid of my hotspot, will it spread the light out more evenly if I put it between the GG and the DV camera? Doesn't a condenser do the same thing as that?

Dan Diaconu · March 11th, 2005, 07:04 AM

That item will not help you in any way. $1 is wasted.
dv852 should work without anything. good luck.

Leo Mandy · March 11th, 2005, 02:40 PM

Ok, a dollar wasted if I bid on it - not a bad return.

But will the Beattie or the Fresnel help me spread the light out more evenly? (again knowing that this is not the ideal way to go, but it is all I have for a spinning CD DOF machine right now).

Oscar Spierenburg · March 11th, 2005, 04:55 PM

If the frensnel is integrated with the GG, I would think it gives a terrible effect in oscillating motion. The fresnel is something like a compressed lens, so it would be like shaking a lens.
Also, because a fresnel acts really like a lens, you'd better use a real lens, without the cirkels.
Dan says you'll never get rid of the hotspot. I don't have hotspot that I can't get rid of in post.

Leo Mandy · March 12th, 2005, 12:27 PM

How did you get rid of it in post?

Les Dit · March 12th, 2005, 02:40 PM

Oscar,
you have a good point here about shaking an actual lens. If you move an image carrying lens by 1 mm, the image it is producing will also move some distance. So the oscillating or vibrating motion will actually blur the image by the amount of the movement or a proportion thereof. Sure, you eliminated the grain problem, but you've thrown out the baby with the bath water. Perhaps this is why we have yet to see an actual *sharp* image through a Frsnel lens? Everything posted so far looks very soft. Perhaps I missed a sharp video posting, where the low bit rate isn't masking an overall out of focus condition?

As far as fixing hotspots in post, yes, field flattening can be done with a gradient matte in post. However, because we only have eight bits to start with, we can only fix minor hotspots.

-Les

<<<-- Originally posted by Oscar Spier : If the frensnel is integrated with the GG, I would think it gives a terrible effect in oscillating motion. The fresnel is something like a compressed lens, so it would be like shaking a lens.
Also, because a fresnel acts really like a lens, you'd better use a real lens, without the cirkels.
Dan says you'll never get rid of the hotspot. I don't have hotspot that I can't get rid of in post. -->>>

Leo Mandy · March 12th, 2005, 02:47 PM

Ok, Gradient Matte in post. What program is best suited for that? If I am understanding correctly, a gradient circle going from the center - white to black or black to white?

Leo Mandy · March 14th, 2005, 01:10 PM

Here is a recent grab I made :

http://dvstuff.250free.com

Spinning GG vs. Press and Seal. Both unacceptable. I am using about 55mm on these shots, but both are terrible in my opinion., Working on moving the camera towards and away to get better shots. Also, these shots are completely zoomed in and I find that it is a little worse because of it. Going to zoom out a bit and see what happens.

March 10th, 2005, 08:19 PM	#31
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	I understand now what you are saying, but finding a way to get it to move/oscillate is another matter. I would love to find a beattie and use it, but will they cut one that will fit like a CD?

March 10th, 2005, 08:30 PM	#32
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	>>>>finding a way......<<<<< yes,...that is true. to shake or not to shake....... I have done what I have done for I do not know any better.... The biggest they make is 60/60mm.

March 10th, 2005, 08:57 PM	#33
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	I guess that is why your device is such a enigma (in a good way). You have managed to come up with something that I cannot emulate in my wildest dreams! For that I salute you. But for me, I am going to have to try and find a Teleconverter 1.6X to use instead of the macro (but I was quoted a $200+ price tag - much higher than I want to spend). I am having too hard of a time trying to get it to work. I like 7+, but it is not enough for me AND 10+ has too much blurring at the edges. I can't win it seems. I guess I am going to have to deal with well-lit situations and a condenser to even out the hotspot because that is my only way to fix my problem - with the unit I have. Yes, if I decide to build an oscillating unit, I will go with the beattie/fresnel. I had an idea for an oscillation, but I don't know if it will work or not. Tonight, I opened up my unit and re-measured the CD to the unit so that it was equal all distances around- tomorrow I am going to remeasure the focal range (it is a lens for a Nikon camera, so I am hoping I can use the 46.5mm range). Do you think this would work as a teleconverter : http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30059&item=3879623487&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Thanks

March 10th, 2005, 10:52 PM	#34
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	Leo, I salute you as well for trying as hard as you are. That is true merit. Well lit or poor lit, any GG will give you a hotspot (if it is spinning, you will not see the grain, however, the light loss of some 2 stops is there and the hotspot is still there) The converter of eBay is for Canon lens. You can use that mounting a Canon lens on it and then, the converter on an SLR Canon camera. If you have a 1.8/50mm lens, the converter will make it into a 4/100mm lens. It will not work on your camcorder. What camcorder do you have?

March 11th, 2005, 06:55 AM	#35
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Dan, I have the PV-DV852 from Panasonic. If I win the bid for the item, I will have to fashion is somehow to work with my camera, though I don't know how. Also, if I buy a frensel or beattie, although I know it won't get rid of my hotspot, will it spread the light out more evenly if I put it between the GG and the DV camera? Doesn't a condenser do the same thing as that?

March 11th, 2005, 07:04 AM	#36
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	That item will not help you in any way. $1 is wasted. dv852 should work without anything. good luck.

March 11th, 2005, 02:40 PM	#37
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Ok, a dollar wasted if I bid on it - not a bad return. But will the Beattie or the Fresnel help me spread the light out more evenly? (again knowing that this is not the ideal way to go, but it is all I have for a spinning CD DOF machine right now).

March 11th, 2005, 04:55 PM	#38
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	If the frensnel is integrated with the GG, I would think it gives a terrible effect in oscillating motion. The fresnel is something like a compressed lens, so it would be like shaking a lens. Also, because a fresnel acts really like a lens, you'd better use a real lens, without the cirkels. Dan says you'll never get rid of the hotspot. I don't have hotspot that I can't get rid of in post.

March 12th, 2005, 12:27 PM	#39
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	How did you get rid of it in post?

March 12th, 2005, 02:40 PM	#40
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Oscar, you have a good point here about shaking an actual lens. If you move an image carrying lens by 1 mm, the image it is producing will also move some distance. So the oscillating or vibrating motion will actually blur the image by the amount of the movement or a proportion thereof. Sure, you eliminated the grain problem, but you've thrown out the baby with the bath water. Perhaps this is why we have yet to see an actual sharp image through a Frsnel lens? Everything posted so far looks very soft. Perhaps I missed a sharp video posting, where the low bit rate isn't masking an overall out of focus condition? As far as fixing hotspots in post, yes, field flattening can be done with a gradient matte in post. However, because we only have eight bits to start with, we can only fix minor hotspots. -Les <<<-- Originally posted by Oscar Spier : If the frensnel is integrated with the GG, I would think it gives a terrible effect in oscillating motion. The fresnel is something like a compressed lens, so it would be like shaking a lens. Also, because a fresnel acts really like a lens, you'd better use a real lens, without the cirkels. Dan says you'll never get rid of the hotspot. I don't have hotspot that I can't get rid of in post. -->>>

March 12th, 2005, 02:47 PM	#41
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Ok, Gradient Matte in post. What program is best suited for that? If I am understanding correctly, a gradient circle going from the center - white to black or black to white?

March 14th, 2005, 01:10 PM	#42
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Here is a recent grab I made : http://dvstuff.250free.com Spinning GG vs. Press and Seal. Both unacceptable. I am using about 55mm on these shots, but both are terrible in my opinion., Working on moving the camera towards and away to get better shots. Also, these shots are completely zoomed in and I find that it is a little worse because of it. Going to zoom out a bit and see what happens.