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Old May 11th, 2005, 02:37 PM   #1
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Fliping the Image in Post Problems

After working on my mini35/micro35 dof machine and working with Adobe Premier Pro 1.5 I have found several Flaws...When using the Horizontal and Vertical Flip Filter we have degraded video to the point that it is worthless.. I have tried this on 2 machines...All video is 60i interlaced. These are BMP Images shot with a Sony PDX-10... here is the link

http://bellaire.homestead.com/files/...emier_flip.pdf
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Old May 11th, 2005, 04:03 PM   #2
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I have had the same results in Premiere and PPro. (best option being rotate 180)
I have tested Avid (just for the rotation) and it does a clean job. I have seen the same clean job done in FCP. I love Premiere (not Pro) so I flipped the camera.
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Old May 11th, 2005, 05:09 PM   #3
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great

So I'm not nuts... What about avid free dv? or AVI Sith and vurtual Dub? Any ideas? Thanks
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Old May 11th, 2005, 05:34 PM   #4
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If you are flipping DV-AVI, don't forget about its limited colorspace. When you flip-flip it or rotate it (to your taste), you'll force a recompress cycle, and be massively messing around with the already limited colorspace.

How can you get around this? You'll have to work with uncompressed AVIs. Render out the flip/rotate as uncompressed AVI and keep it there.

Or, if you are doing 24p conversion at some point, do all of that processing prior to the flip/rotate. Deartifact, convert to 24p, save as uncompressed AVI... then do your flip/rotate.

It will look pretty bad any other way.

Josh
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Old May 11th, 2005, 06:03 PM   #5
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I used AVID free DV to flip the footage, save it as AVI and import it in Premiere.
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Old May 11th, 2005, 06:49 PM   #6
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Wow

Color Space and recompress... OK looks like I'll have to folow through with the Free DV and save out... Thanks for the Info on the Color space... Gets me thinking a bit more about what all goes on behind the walls of an AVI...
Also Dan do you capture the footage in Free Dv then export out as AVI or do you inport AVI into Free DV and flip and Export to AVI... Thanks for all the help...
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Old May 11th, 2005, 07:02 PM   #7
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Import in Avid (from tape) fip, save as ...AVI.
Premiere: import file (...avi) edit. you are welcome. DV INFO IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old May 11th, 2005, 07:13 PM   #8
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Craig - you sent me your footage and I will post some results.

I did the 180 rotation in Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6 and I cannot see any difference between flipped and non-flipped.

I am not a FCP user so I cannot speak from experience, but the flip=recompress and massively changing color space doesn't ring true for me - it certainly isn't my experience in LE6.
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Old May 12th, 2005, 12:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Diaconu
Import in Avid (from tape) fip, save as ...AVI.
Premiere: import file (...avi) edit. you are welcome. DV INFO IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
This was said already and leads to more compression.

You can try AVISynth, which would get rid of another compression step. I posted the samples on Micro35 forum for you.
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Old May 12th, 2005, 02:54 AM   #10
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Seems to me that it's an interlace issue.

If you're shooting interlaced video, and you want it to stay as interlaced video, it doesn't seem to me that there's any perfect solution to fix this problem, other than to flip the camera upside down when you shoot. The next best solution that I can think of would be to move the clip up or down by one pixel, and render it out as if it were progressive.
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Old May 12th, 2005, 01:55 PM   #11
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Flipping the Image in Final Cut Pro looks flawless. Yeah, I know you may all be on PCs. I thought I'd just make this of record for others venturing into the 35mm imaging madness. I'm using progressive footage from an XL2 and that may also be aiding in the ease of processing.

Even better yet, export out as Uncompressed and you'll be ensuring you don't add any possible DV-based recompression artifacts.
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Old May 12th, 2005, 02:24 PM   #12
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virtual dub

OK I've been playing with virtual dub and it's a great tool. I can flip, de-interlace and add an s-curve all at once and it's over with. Even looks good... best of all it's free... thanks again
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Old May 12th, 2005, 04:32 PM   #13
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Craig - where is the flip feature in virtual dub? I'm using 1.5.1

Thanks
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Old May 12th, 2005, 05:02 PM   #14
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Brian,
Video->Filters->Add
use either "rotate" or "flip horizontally" and "flip vertically"
Not sure if they give you the same output or if one is better than the other

Cheers
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Old May 12th, 2005, 05:07 PM   #15
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Brian

VDUB is great, you can rotate 180, deinterlace and even add an S-Curve all at the same time..Video->Filters->Add. You will have to load a codec for DV that works with VFW and you can even used a diffent codec to output such as windows DV to Pinnacle or canopus...

Brian can you e-mail me please craigbellaire@hotmail.com
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