News to me, colour separation from the GG?! at DVinfo.net

Leo Mandy · August 14th, 2005, 10:30 AM

Well, I have been so focused on getting a clear picture with my DOF, that I haven't shot any lamps etc in a while and I was shocked to discover that I was getting colour separation. I thought it might have been my achromat, so I tried it without and lo and behold, the colour separation is there. I couldn't figure it out, so I took everything out and look through the lens with the GG in my other hand - it looked good, no separation - but when I put it together in my system, I am seeing the colour separation. I went even as far as just the SLR and my mini DV, no separation, but as soon as I add the GG into the mix, the colour separation is there.
I am using a Konica 57mm spinning CD, frostedwax/mylar/press&seal - all of the above and same thing, colour separation.
Anyone else know what is going on? Could it be my miniDV?

Quyen Le · August 14th, 2005, 11:51 AM

Hi Leo,

Check your mail. I sent you 3 pictures of different lamps. Do you see anything in mine? Thanks.

Quyen

Leo Mandy · August 14th, 2005, 12:05 PM

No, yours looks good. I don't get it with mine. I am beginning to think alot of my problems stem from the DV - PV852 Panasonic camera. Maybe it doesn't like the colour or something. If I change the white balance setting to indoor lighting, it looks better, but still there. I am not sure why and I am getting tired or trying to find out.

Quyen Le · August 14th, 2005, 12:12 PM

Maybe plastic GG. Anybody with plastic GG experience the same problem?

Quyen

Leo Mandy · August 14th, 2005, 12:34 PM

Right as rain. I tried my 1/2 finished Quyen Special and no colour separation at all. I am using the plastic GG CD and there is definitely problems with them. I wonder why I haven't seen anyone writing about it before. I know there is a thread about a glass GG - they are on the right track for that. Glass it going to be much better. Count me in if someone figures it out. It would also explain why those that are using the WAX Oscar method are getting good results as well - glass again.
I wonder how the micro35 people are dealing with it? Maybe the PCX in front of the SLR - ACTION >> PCX >> GG >> PCX - maybe that solves the problem?

Wayne Kinney · August 14th, 2005, 12:41 PM

Yeah,
This is the very reason, other then light loss, that im trying to develope the spinning glass design on my other thread.

Wayne.

Leo Mandy · August 14th, 2005, 12:42 PM

Good man Wayne, I didn't see the reason why, but it is good to know. Colour separation is such a bugger - I could shot right now with my DOF machine as it is, but I guess I really want the best I can get. What is the status on spinning glass?

Wayne Kinney · August 14th, 2005, 04:45 PM

I think to two main problems of the spinning glass idea are:

1: getting a perfectly balanced peice of glass as not to cause vibration

2: Getting the weight of the glass right as not to be too fragile and not produce too a strong gyroscopic effect.

Im just going from research here and have not actually attemped any experiementation yet, but will soon.

Wayne.

Oscar Spierenburg · August 14th, 2005, 04:49 PM

Wax Oscar here...maybe it can also be caused by the coating on some of the clear CD's. I think the 'rainbow' coating should be on the side of the mylar or better, polish it off with car polish or something.

Edit; Didn't that Russian guy (Nicolas?) use a glass disk which started to crack?

Wayne Kinney · August 14th, 2005, 05:15 PM

Oscar,

I think i should of added that cracking thing to my second point. The gyro force does put alot of stress on the glass. I know Nick Bartleet lost a £45 proffessionally made GG to this design via the glass shattering.

I think its a responsible MUST to point out the potential dangers of this method via experimentation and testing. Anyone testing this out should do so with caution.

Wayne.

Leo Mandy · August 14th, 2005, 05:51 PM

I wonder why it would crack. Maybe putting a compound or strengthener near the center where the hole is, so vibrations would cause the crack outwards.

Oscar, good point, I am going to try and find a CD without the rainbow and try the polish method.

Quyen's method is still sound and might be better for the glass problem. He is using a glass slide from a microscope set and not getting any colour separation so glass is definitely a better way to go.

Ben Winter · August 14th, 2005, 08:14 PM

How fast, really, does the glass need to spin for the grain to dissappear anyway? Just keeping the camera at lower shutter speeds (1/30, 1/60, etc) would allow you to keep the rpms down, right?

Wayne Kinney · August 15th, 2005, 04:52 AM

Thats true,
Im thinking of getting the fan motor with the adjustable speed control on it. Try filming a TV or PC monitor through a slow spinning disk, you think it flickers without an adapter?...DAMN.

Wayne.

August 14th, 2005, 10:30 AM	#1
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	News to me, colour separation from the GG?! Well, I have been so focused on getting a clear picture with my DOF, that I haven't shot any lamps etc in a while and I was shocked to discover that I was getting colour separation. I thought it might have been my achromat, so I tried it without and lo and behold, the colour separation is there. I couldn't figure it out, so I took everything out and look through the lens with the GG in my other hand - it looked good, no separation - but when I put it together in my system, I am seeing the colour separation. I went even as far as just the SLR and my mini DV, no separation, but as soon as I add the GG into the mix, the colour separation is there. I am using a Konica 57mm spinning CD, frostedwax/mylar/press&seal - all of the above and same thing, colour separation. Anyone else know what is going on? Could it be my miniDV?

August 14th, 2005, 11:51 AM	#2
Quyen Le Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 356	Hi Leo, Check your mail. I sent you 3 pictures of different lamps. Do you see anything in mine? Thanks. Quyen __________________ Affordable Adapter http://www.adapterplace.com

August 14th, 2005, 12:12 PM	#4
Quyen Le Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 356	Maybe plastic GG. Anybody with plastic GG experience the same problem? Quyen __________________ Affordable Adapter http://www.adapterplace.com

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August 14th, 2005, 12:05 PM	#3
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	No, yours looks good. I don't get it with mine. I am beginning to think alot of my problems stem from the DV - PV852 Panasonic camera. Maybe it doesn't like the colour or something. If I change the white balance setting to indoor lighting, it looks better, but still there. I am not sure why and I am getting tired or trying to find out.

August 14th, 2005, 12:34 PM	#5
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Right as rain. I tried my 1/2 finished Quyen Special and no colour separation at all. I am using the plastic GG CD and there is definitely problems with them. I wonder why I haven't seen anyone writing about it before. I know there is a thread about a glass GG - they are on the right track for that. Glass it going to be much better. Count me in if someone figures it out. It would also explain why those that are using the WAX Oscar method are getting good results as well - glass again. I wonder how the micro35 people are dealing with it? Maybe the PCX in front of the SLR - ACTION >> PCX >> GG >> PCX - maybe that solves the problem?

August 14th, 2005, 12:41 PM	#6
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Yeah, This is the very reason, other then light loss, that im trying to develope the spinning glass design on my other thread. Wayne.

August 14th, 2005, 12:42 PM	#7
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Good man Wayne, I didn't see the reason why, but it is good to know. Colour separation is such a bugger - I could shot right now with my DOF machine as it is, but I guess I really want the best I can get. What is the status on spinning glass?

August 14th, 2005, 04:45 PM	#8
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	I think to two main problems of the spinning glass idea are: 1: getting a perfectly balanced peice of glass as not to cause vibration 2: Getting the weight of the glass right as not to be too fragile and not produce too a strong gyroscopic effect. Im just going from research here and have not actually attemped any experiementation yet, but will soon. Wayne.

August 14th, 2005, 04:49 PM	#9
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Wax Oscar here...maybe it can also be caused by the coating on some of the clear CD's. I think the 'rainbow' coating should be on the side of the mylar or better, polish it off with car polish or something. Edit; Didn't that Russian guy (Nicolas?) use a glass disk which started to crack?

August 14th, 2005, 05:15 PM	#10
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Oscar, I think i should of added that cracking thing to my second point. The gyro force does put alot of stress on the glass. I know Nick Bartleet lost a £45 proffessionally made GG to this design via the glass shattering. I think its a responsible MUST to point out the potential dangers of this method via experimentation and testing. Anyone testing this out should do so with caution. Wayne.

August 14th, 2005, 05:51 PM	#11
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	I wonder why it would crack. Maybe putting a compound or strengthener near the center where the hole is, so vibrations would cause the crack outwards. Oscar, good point, I am going to try and find a CD without the rainbow and try the polish method. Quyen's method is still sound and might be better for the glass problem. He is using a glass slide from a microscope set and not getting any colour separation so glass is definitely a better way to go.

August 14th, 2005, 08:14 PM	#12
Ben Winter Trustee Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 1,675 Images: 1	How fast, really, does the glass need to spin for the grain to dissappear anyway? Just keeping the camera at lower shutter speeds (1/30, 1/60, etc) would allow you to keep the rpms down, right?

August 15th, 2005, 04:52 AM	#13
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Thats true, Im thinking of getting the fan motor with the adjustable speed control on it. Try filming a TV or PC monitor through a slow spinning disk, you think it flickers without an adapter?...DAMN. Wayne.