How about this... at DVinfo.net

Oscar Spierenburg · November 16th, 2005, 06:33 PM

Just now, I opened up the B/W viewfinder of my camcorder (10 sec.) than I flipped out the whole 'micro TV' (2 sec)
Very carefully I turned the thing 180 deg. , which folded the ribbon wires, but not too much. (5 sec) Then I put it back in the housing and closed the viewfinder again(10 sec)

Now ( 27 sec later) I have all text upside down, BUT, the image of the 35mm (wax) adapter as it should be: not mirrored, not upside down.

So, my conclusion is:
I do not recommend anyone to do this stunt with his expensive camcorder....I used my 1 chip consumer thing. But how about it!

Kurt August · November 16th, 2005, 07:09 PM

I'm still looking for a good solution for a pd-150. This little trick seems almost undoable with it, but I was actually also thinking about it today.

But why possibly ruin a camera when you still need an external monitor to check sharpness? I think I rather just hold my camera upside down.

Oscar Spierenburg · November 16th, 2005, 07:20 PM

You can check the sharpness on an external monitor, but you can also check the numbers on the lens after you measured the distance to the object.
I wonder if a laser or sonar measure tool is accurate enough.
Like I said, don't do this trick unless you know what you are doing. I can tell if I'm about to ruin something or not, just by looking carefully at it, when I'm not sure, I don't do it.

Keith Wakeham · November 16th, 2005, 07:45 PM

Thats an interesting idea. But If you have a more expensive camera you could pickup a 2" jvc viewfinder (crt B/W) and rotate the crt in that. Around 500 usd. B & H sells them. (plus now you have a tiny lcd viewfinder, a flipout lcd, and a b/w crt - you could more easily win the "Mine is bigger" contest).

Just have to build a mount.

Michael Maier · November 16th, 2005, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Wakeham

Thats an interesting idea. But If you have a more expensive camera you could pickup a 2" jvc viewfinder (crt B/W) and rotate the crt in that. Around 500 usd. B & H sells them. (plus now you have a tiny lcd viewfinder, a flipout lcd, and a b/w crt - you could more easily win the "Mine is bigger" contest).

Just have to build a mount.

Are you talking about the DV500 viewfinder? If you are, remember it would only work with the old DV cameras and not with HDV ones, because HDV is 16:9. That viewfinder is 4:3, and then the image will be squeezed.

Leo Mandy · November 16th, 2005, 10:00 PM

Sounds good Oscar, but I can't figure out what you are doing!!

Keith Wakeham · November 17th, 2005, 02:39 PM

Their are a few viewfinders out their but most accept standard video inputs just need the pinout to hook it up the the camera you want.

The JVC is just one of the cheaper ones i'm looking at for a project. I'm pretty sure most HDV will output SD composite, but could be wrong. Don't own a HDV so don't know for sure.

Michael Maier · November 17th, 2005, 05:26 PM

Keith, unless you use the camera in 4:3 mode, which is a waste if you have a 16:9 HDV camera, the output will be squeezed when using a 4:3 viewfinder like the JVC you mentioned. 16:9 viewfinders are expensive.

Oscar Spierenburg · November 17th, 2005, 05:30 PM

<<<Sounds good Oscar, but I can't figure out what you are doing!!>>>

Leo, it's very simple. Inside the viewfinder there is a incredibly small monitor with a ribbon wire attached. I just took out that monitor and rotated it 180 deg. Then I put it back in.
Of course you can focus much better on a bigger screen, but you can always use the LCD upside down or something else to focus.
But it's pretty handy that I can follow a subject and frame a shot through the viewfinder again.

Keith Wakeham · November 17th, 2005, 07:42 PM

Sorry Michael, wasn't thinking to hard their - Understand what your saying now.

Do all HDV squeeze when outputing composite in 16:9 - they don't crop or mask with black bars?

Michael Maier · November 17th, 2005, 08:10 PM

I'm not sure about the composite output, but wouldn't it defeat the purpose of a sharper and better viewfinder in the first place? I think you should either use the original viewfinder port, or component.

Keith Wakeham · November 18th, 2005, 08:50 AM

Considering most LCD viewfinders are 200k pixels the resolution of a good black and white CRT is normally superior. But also consider the size and that their is no mask or screen door and your only focusing on luma. (Most viewfinders are 0.5" (not the flip out) compared to the aftermarket 1.5"-2"). And most of these lcd are not stacked from what i've seen, they are side by side, so this makes it even harder to focus because the Red is two pixels away from where the blue is it corrosponds to, yet right next the one it shouldn't.

Personally I like CRT viewfinders, but i'm not much of a film maker, just an engineering student and from the people I've talked with people have different opinions on the crt viewfinder vs. LCD. But I've heard mostly from the pro guys that b/w crt is usually better for focusing.

Just for a referance, the FX1's viewfinder is 250k pixels lcd. This is used for focusing a 2000k pixel (2mp) image. The slight increase to 345k pixels of SD should help with focus with using a CRT. Can't find info on the Xl H1 or HD100u.

Donnie Wagner · November 18th, 2005, 03:26 PM

Oscar,
I did the same thing with my vx2000, that was a scary surgery. I also thought about this...

http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp...&search=0&off=

for sony and panasonics 3-chippers, you could mount this thing on a flexible arm and position it so you could put the camcorder on your shoulder. With the extra length these adapters add, the lens is out in a good position for shoulder mount work. Just a thought.

Oscar Spierenburg · November 18th, 2005, 05:20 PM

Such a viewfinder is also a good idea Donnie. Anyway, besides the advantages of LCD screens, I like a viewfinder because isolates you from everything else.
Was rotating the monitor as easy to do as I described?

Michael Maier · November 18th, 2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie Wagner

Oscar,
I did the same thing with my vx2000, that was a scary surgery. I also thought about this...

http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp...&search=0&off=

for sony and panasonics 3-chippers, you could mount this thing on a flexible arm and position it so you could put the camcorder on your shoulder. With the extra length these adapters add, the lens is out in a good position for shoulder mount work. Just a thought.

I don't think the resolution is high enough to be useful for anything else but framing. I don't think you could use it for focus in HD.

November 16th, 2005, 06:33 PM	#1
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	How about this... Just now, I opened up the B/W viewfinder of my camcorder (10 sec.) than I flipped out the whole 'micro TV' (2 sec) Very carefully I turned the thing 180 deg. , which folded the ribbon wires, but not too much. (5 sec) Then I put it back in the housing and closed the viewfinder again(10 sec) Now ( 27 sec later) I have all text upside down, BUT, the image of the 35mm (wax) adapter as it should be: not mirrored, not upside down. So, my conclusion is: I do not recommend anyone to do this stunt with his expensive camcorder....I used my 1 chip consumer thing. But how about it!

November 16th, 2005, 07:09 PM	#2
Kurt August Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 94	Flip flop I'm still looking for a good solution for a pd-150. This little trick seems almost undoable with it, but I was actually also thinking about it today. But why possibly ruin a camera when you still need an external monitor to check sharpness? I think I rather just hold my camera upside down.

November 16th, 2005, 07:45 PM	#4
Keith Wakeham Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: St. John's, NL, Canada Posts: 416	Thats an interesting idea. But If you have a more expensive camera you could pickup a 2" jvc viewfinder (crt B/W) and rotate the crt in that. Around 500 usd. B & H sells them. (plus now you have a tiny lcd viewfinder, a flipout lcd, and a b/w crt - you could more easily win the "Mine is bigger" contest). Just have to build a mount. __________________ www.engr.mun.ca/~wakeham/index.htm

November 17th, 2005, 02:39 PM	#7
Keith Wakeham Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: St. John's, NL, Canada Posts: 416	Their are a few viewfinders out their but most accept standard video inputs just need the pinout to hook it up the the camera you want. The JVC is just one of the cheaper ones i'm looking at for a project. I'm pretty sure most HDV will output SD composite, but could be wrong. Don't own a HDV so don't know for sure. __________________ www.engr.mun.ca/~wakeham/index.htm

November 17th, 2005, 07:42 PM	#10
Keith Wakeham Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: St. John's, NL, Canada Posts: 416	Sorry Michael, wasn't thinking to hard their - Understand what your saying now. Do all HDV squeeze when outputing composite in 16:9 - they don't crop or mask with black bars? __________________ www.engr.mun.ca/~wakeham/index.htm

November 16th, 2005, 07:20 PM	#3
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	You can check the sharpness on an external monitor, but you can also check the numbers on the lens after you measured the distance to the object. I wonder if a laser or sonar measure tool is accurate enough. Like I said, don't do this trick unless you know what you are doing. I can tell if I'm about to ruin something or not, just by looking carefully at it, when I'm not sure, I don't do it.

November 16th, 2005, 10:00 PM	#6
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Sounds good Oscar, but I can't figure out what you are doing!!

November 17th, 2005, 05:26 PM	#8
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Keith, unless you use the camera in 4:3 mode, which is a waste if you have a 16:9 HDV camera, the output will be squeezed when using a 4:3 viewfinder like the JVC you mentioned. 16:9 viewfinders are expensive.

November 17th, 2005, 05:30 PM	#9
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	<<<Sounds good Oscar, but I can't figure out what you are doing!!>>> Leo, it's very simple. Inside the viewfinder there is a incredibly small monitor with a ribbon wire attached. I just took out that monitor and rotated it 180 deg. Then I put it back in. Of course you can focus much better on a bigger screen, but you can always use the LCD upside down or something else to focus. But it's pretty handy that I can follow a subject and frame a shot through the viewfinder again.

November 17th, 2005, 08:10 PM	#11
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	I'm not sure about the composite output, but wouldn't it defeat the purpose of a sharper and better viewfinder in the first place? I think you should either use the original viewfinder port, or component.

November 18th, 2005, 08:50 AM	#12
Keith Wakeham Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: St. John's, NL, Canada Posts: 416	Considering most LCD viewfinders are 200k pixels the resolution of a good black and white CRT is normally superior. But also consider the size and that their is no mask or screen door and your only focusing on luma. (Most viewfinders are 0.5" (not the flip out) compared to the aftermarket 1.5"-2"). And most of these lcd are not stacked from what i've seen, they are side by side, so this makes it even harder to focus because the Red is two pixels away from where the blue is it corrosponds to, yet right next the one it shouldn't. Personally I like CRT viewfinders, but i'm not much of a film maker, just an engineering student and from the people I've talked with people have different opinions on the crt viewfinder vs. LCD. But I've heard mostly from the pro guys that b/w crt is usually better for focusing. Just for a referance, the FX1's viewfinder is 250k pixels lcd. This is used for focusing a 2000k pixel (2mp) image. The slight increase to 345k pixels of SD should help with focus with using a CRT. Can't find info on the Xl H1 or HD100u. __________________ www.engr.mun.ca/~wakeham/index.htm

November 18th, 2005, 03:26 PM	#13
Donnie Wagner Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 135	Oscar, I did the same thing with my vx2000, that was a scary surgery. I also thought about this... http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp...&search=0&off= for sony and panasonics 3-chippers, you could mount this thing on a flexible arm and position it so you could put the camcorder on your shoulder. With the extra length these adapters add, the lens is out in a good position for shoulder mount work. Just a thought.

November 18th, 2005, 05:20 PM	#14
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Such a viewfinder is also a good idea Donnie. Anyway, besides the advantages of LCD screens, I like a viewfinder because isolates you from everything else. Was rotating the monitor as easy to do as I described?