What about Sanyo HD1 and 35mm DOF adapters? at DVinfo.net

Toenis Liivamaegi · February 21st, 2006, 01:53 PM

Sorry I couldn`t find anything regarding Sanyo`s new Xacti HD1 and DOF adapters...
... progressive scan HD, full manual exposure and MFD of 10mm I`m thinking that this little thing could make up quite nice SD capturing system for DOF adapters?

Not good at low light (f 3.5) but still better than most $800 MiniDV cams out there.

Xacti HD1 thread goes here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=58228
200 pages user manual: http://www.gamersden.com/hd1test/Camera_GB.pdf

Why shouldn`t it be used with DOF adapters specially when downsampled to SD in post?

Wayne Morellini · February 23rd, 2006, 08:15 AM

Welcome Toenis. You might try going through the threads in Alternative imaging, there are a few for HD models to get ideas, plus the latest thread on alternative screens etc for low light loss.

As I said in the thread, you could consider a straight tube with high quality condenser triplet (one designed to resolve red, green, and blue spectrum's, as some are calibrated to do IR or UV instead) and you should get much better low light performance.

I wish you success.

Wayne.

Neo Castillo · January 25th, 2007, 09:58 PM

Any news on an adapter for the HD1, HD1a or HD2? I'd be real interested to see what come up.

Dennis Hingsberg · January 26th, 2007, 12:41 PM

f3.5 now, and much worse once you add a 35mm adapter in terms of light loss.

I think it's low light capabilities make it prohibative.

Wayne Morellini · January 26th, 2007, 09:49 PM

As far as I know an focusing screen is not needed to get the 35mm DOF, that an condenser lens can reproduce the DOF, at much brighter levels. Focus screens act like an ND filter combined with some washout (in more primitive screens) so you are goign to loose that effect. Now for an way that can squeeze F1.8 SLR lens down through they f3.5 aperture?

Jack Davidson · January 27th, 2007, 11:50 AM

Wayne,
that's sort of true but technically very difficult. All of the sub $10,000 DOF adapters use some kind of focusing screen (Ground-glass, wax-screen, holofilter) to display the aerial image to be rephotographed. Condenser lenses are often used in these set ups to get more even illlumination edge-to-edge.

There is currently another thread going about building a purely optical solution, and just yesterday there was a long heated discussion on the cinematography.net site between some very heavy hitters about it's feasability/success.

There are two designs that I know of in the $20 G range. Angenieux & Zeiss lenses collaborated to release something called the CLA 35HD that allows you to mount many Cine lenses onto a 2/3" camera with only about a 1/2 stop light loss. (But it doesn't work with all of them--depending perhaps on the size of the exit pupil?) But it is by no means a simple condenser lens, utilizing maybe 11 elements. And Zacuto (or someone else--Zacuto is just a rental house) has recently built a DOF system using a different relay lens for each prime lens (with I'm guessing also very little light loss).

And everyone's speculating over JVC's announced cine lens adapter, and whether it's just a lens mount adapter or a true DOF adapter. But either way you'll need a 1/3" removable lens mount, which I'm guessing the Sanyo doesn't have.

Sorry to be a wet blanket. $800 for HD is awesome, and I didn't check the lux rating on the chip--maybe it's superfast, in which case the f3.5 doesn't matter. But otherwise to use a DOF adapter you'll generally have to throw a fair bit of light at your scenes, or only shoot it in daylight.

Dennis Hingsberg · January 27th, 2007, 12:03 PM

I guess you guys haven't seen the HD1 cine-version I designed and posted quite some time ago?

Jack Davidson · January 27th, 2007, 12:57 PM

Dennis, that's hilarious! Let me know when you're taking orders.

Robert Batta · January 28th, 2007, 06:21 AM

hi all,

i tested the HD1+M2+Takumar 50mm F1.4 lens ...not bad in good lighting situations...
this sample videos little noisy (indoor) but like a film grain :)

no cc or any post production...
the SD conversion very good !

Robert Batta · January 28th, 2007, 06:54 AM

the rig :)

Robert Batta · January 28th, 2007, 07:54 AM

HD1 with matte box :)

Zack Birlew · January 28th, 2007, 11:10 AM

Wow!

But I thought it didn't have filter threads though? How are you guys doing that?

Robert Batta · January 28th, 2007, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Felis

Wow!

But I thought it didn't have filter threads though? How are you guys doing that?

http://www.amazon.com/Sanyo-VCP-AL49.../dp/B000FSAS1S

Zack Birlew · January 28th, 2007, 11:28 AM

Well how about that? =)

Can't wait to check out that HD2 when it comes out.

Wayne Morellini · January 29th, 2007, 10:35 AM

Dennis, that picture still makes me laugh ;)

Jack, maybe it depends on how much performance you want. I suspect you can get adequate results at much less resolution (and an triplet lens). Movie cameras mare very demanding. This is 720p 4:2:0, it would be interesting to see.

Never trust the opinion of people that "use" equipment, they might be right, as long as somebody else showed them, trust more the ones that are good at designing the equipment you are talking about. These people are of an much different mindset, and prone to be more accurate about what they know. This has been a problem around here in the early days, a lot of people didn't have the mindset of an engineer or an technical designer. It's exhausting, time consuming and hard.

Wait to see what happens, what they can achieve. Prices in the Cinema market should not be taken as an indication of possible price. Cinema markets are very small, so they are making a lot of premium money on small quantities, where as the DV market is market probably at least as big for each producer, and prone to lower pricing. Remember that the adaptors used to be massively expensive, and now we can do our own for a fraction of the price. So, it will be interesting to see what they can achieve.

February 21st, 2006, 01:53 PM	#1
Toenis Liivamaegi Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tartu, Estonia Posts: 579	What about Sanyo HD1 and 35mm DOF adapters? Sorry I couldn`t find anything regarding Sanyo`s new Xacti HD1 and DOF adapters... ... progressive scan HD, full manual exposure and MFD of 10mm I`m thinking that this little thing could make up quite nice SD capturing system for DOF adapters? Not good at low light (f 3.5) but still better than most $800 MiniDV cams out there. Xacti HD1 thread goes here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=58228 200 pages user manual: http://www.gamersden.com/hd1test/Camera_GB.pdf Why shouldn`t it be used with DOF adapters specially when downsampled to SD in post?

January 26th, 2007, 12:41 PM	#4
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	f3.5 now, and much worse once you add a 35mm adapter in terms of light loss. I think it's low light capabilities make it prohibative. __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

January 27th, 2007, 11:50 AM	#6
Jack Davidson New Boot Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 23	hmmm Wayne, that's sort of true but technically very difficult. All of the sub $10,000 DOF adapters use some kind of focusing screen (Ground-glass, wax-screen, holofilter) to display the aerial image to be rephotographed. Condenser lenses are often used in these set ups to get more even illlumination edge-to-edge. There is currently another thread going about building a purely optical solution, and just yesterday there was a long heated discussion on the cinematography.net site between some very heavy hitters about it's feasability/success. There are two designs that I know of in the $20 G range. Angenieux & Zeiss lenses collaborated to release something called the CLA 35HD that allows you to mount many Cine lenses onto a 2/3" camera with only about a 1/2 stop light loss. (But it doesn't work with all of them--depending perhaps on the size of the exit pupil?) But it is by no means a simple condenser lens, utilizing maybe 11 elements. And Zacuto (or someone else--Zacuto is just a rental house) has recently built a DOF system using a different relay lens for each prime lens (with I'm guessing also very little light loss). And everyone's speculating over JVC's announced cine lens adapter, and whether it's just a lens mount adapter or a true DOF adapter. But either way you'll need a 1/3" removable lens mount, which I'm guessing the Sanyo doesn't have. Sorry to be a wet blanket. $800 for HD is awesome, and I didn't check the lux rating on the chip--maybe it's superfast, in which case the f3.5 doesn't matter. But otherwise to use a DOF adapter you'll generally have to throw a fair bit of light at your scenes, or only shoot it in daylight.

January 27th, 2007, 12:03 PM	#7
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	I guess you guys haven't seen the HD1 cine-version I designed and posted quite some time ago? Attached Images __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

January 27th, 2007, 12:57 PM	#8
Jack Davidson New Boot Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 23	! Dennis, that's hilarious! Let me know when you're taking orders.

February 23rd, 2006, 08:15 AM	#2
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Welcome Toenis. You might try going through the threads in Alternative imaging, there are a few for HD models to get ideas, plus the latest thread on alternative screens etc for low light loss. As I said in the thread, you could consider a straight tube with high quality condenser triplet (one designed to resolve red, green, and blue spectrum's, as some are calibrated to do IR or UV instead) and you should get much better low light performance. I wish you success. Wayne.

January 25th, 2007, 09:58 PM	#3
Neo Castillo Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 66	Any news on an adapter for the HD1, HD1a or HD2? I'd be real interested to see what come up.

January 26th, 2007, 09:49 PM	#5
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	As far as I know an focusing screen is not needed to get the 35mm DOF, that an condenser lens can reproduce the DOF, at much brighter levels. Focus screens act like an ND filter combined with some washout (in more primitive screens) so you are goign to loose that effect. Now for an way that can squeeze F1.8 SLR lens down through they f3.5 aperture?

January 28th, 2007, 06:54 AM	#10
Robert Batta Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hungary / Europe Posts: 128	Sanyo HD1+Redrock M2 DOF adapter the rig :) Attached Thumbnails __________________ Robert Batta my stock video portfolio : https://www.pond5.com/artist/skysuta Pond5 – the world’s first web-based stock footage marketplace –

January 28th, 2007, 07:54 AM	#11
Robert Batta Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hungary / Europe Posts: 128	HD1 cine-version HD1 with matte box :) Attached Thumbnails __________________ Robert Batta my stock video portfolio : https://www.pond5.com/artist/skysuta Pond5 – the world’s first web-based stock footage marketplace –

January 28th, 2007, 11:10 AM	#12
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	Wow! But I thought it didn't have filter threads though? How are you guys doing that? __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

January 28th, 2007, 11:28 AM	#14
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	Well how about that? =) Can't wait to check out that HD2 when it comes out. __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

January 29th, 2007, 10:35 AM	#15
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Dennis, that picture still makes me laugh ;) Jack, maybe it depends on how much performance you want. I suspect you can get adequate results at much less resolution (and an triplet lens). Movie cameras mare very demanding. This is 720p 4:2:0, it would be interesting to see. Never trust the opinion of people that "use" equipment, they might be right, as long as somebody else showed them, trust more the ones that are good at designing the equipment you are talking about. These people are of an much different mindset, and prone to be more accurate about what they know. This has been a problem around here in the early days, a lot of people didn't have the mindset of an engineer or an technical designer. It's exhausting, time consuming and hard. Wait to see what happens, what they can achieve. Prices in the Cinema market should not be taken as an indication of possible price. Cinema markets are very small, so they are making a lot of premium money on small quantities, where as the DV market is market probably at least as big for each producer, and prone to lower pricing. Remember that the adaptors used to be massively expensive, and now we can do our own for a fraction of the price. So, it will be interesting to see what they can achieve.