Redrock, Brevis, SGPro Shootout

[Ing Poh Hii]

Oh yes, as Dennis mentioned to make another test with the latest CF3.

So Phil & Wayne, Is it possible for me to join you both if you decide to make another test sometime in March (as I away from UK at Feb) ? I am not expert in anyway and I have no gear to help the test with too (as all my stuff are at Malaysia) but at least I can treat you a drink & meal, it is just nice to learn from Pro & see how thing is actually done :-).

thank you~

[Matthew Wauhkonen]

I'm studying in Brighton this semester (and was just in London last weekend--loved it!) I don't have my Guerilla35 with me, but if you want I can try to get my family to ship it down for testing, or maybe I can bring it for summer term.

I'll give away the conclusion, though:
Significant light loss.
Excellent, excellent bokeh and "organic" response to light.
Great resolution but much less so at f2.4 than f2.8 and above (on the dvx's relay lens).
More static grain than you'd ever believe, even occasionally visible at f1.4.
Set up time: 20 seconds. Brilliant edge to edge sharpness with relay lens past f2.8, even at wide open way above average. Calibrated quite well to focus on infinity accurately, etc. etc. and needs no adjustment. (But, of course, it can't be adjusted.)

It's static grain (and a bit of light loss) away from being truly phenomenal. It has a 52mm achromat, which is of the highest quality and performs wonderfully and I agree that the smaller achromat is a generally excellent choice. Too bad the project apparently went nowhere.

[Dennis Wood]

Ing, one of the major issues/tradeoffs here is compactness. We could use a weaker/smaller achromat, but we'd end up with a much longer lead-in tube, and at shorter lengths, potential vignetting due to the smaller achromat. The 72mm achromat is definitely better in our application, which is why we abondoned the 58mm alternative.

Phil has two units now, one with the new drive system/Nikon mount, and one without. The review was done with the old unit, which would not have been my preference, however that's all Phil had at the time. Had I been there to tune up the unit for the review, the old one would have been fine...however our goal in making the design changes/new drive was to reduce the requirement for fine tuning to near zero.

I'm long, long overdue to do a shoot with the three imaging elements, so I'll be posting that up shortly.

[Phil Bloom]

I've just seen four episodes of the new series that I have been shooting for Channel 4. It's not been graded yet, but it's so depressing to have spent such a long time crafting something to find they have stuck in some interviews shot on a z1 by the director because they couldnt pay for another crew day.

There is one film that is about Co-habitation rights that has a huge amount of M2 shot stuff in it. It is going out in about 4 weeks or so. I am very pleased with how it looks. Stupidly shallow DOF at times for interviews!

[Phil Bloom]

PLEASE don't take this shootout as gospel. There were so many mitigating factors that made it as unscientific as "Integlligent Design"!!

I have got much better images with my Brevis at other times, same with the M2. Wayne has a great adaptor and by having him there did give his SGPro an advantage over the others. A really fair comparison would be to get all the makers together with three identical cameras shooting the same scene side by side, this of course is probably never going to happen. So your best bet is still to just read what I have said, read what other people think and make your mind up from that. If you buy any one of these adaptors you have made the right choice. They are all brilliant. Watching the doco that I half shot on the M2, and half on the XDCam showed just how lovely the M2 is.

I havent seen the full Homeless doco that I have shot with the Brevis/ XDCam with the odd interview on the M2. The one that goes out this Friday I have just seen. It has very little M2 stuff in it. Just two sequences inside a Mosque, the rest was XDCAM and Z1 second camera.

I really want to shoot a whole doco using my Brevis, but it has to be a project that I can take my time with, and preferably not handheld. You need a monitor with the HVX, less so with the Z1. I would be creating a huge amount of work for myself doing this but it would be worth it. The more you use them the more you can adapt to the change in shooting styles. When I go back to my full size camera I forget how easy shooting with a nice big zoom lens with low light is!!!!!

Dennis, I will go to the same location when I get the new diffuser and do the same shots again to show the guys here that the Brevis Bokeh is top notch too.

By the way Dennis. My achrmoat has managed to get stuck to the 72mm to 82mm ring and the the ring that steps down to the adaptor. Any idea how I can get them off? If I do I will stick a bit of vaseline on the thread so it doesnt happen again. What is the step ring for the adaptor to the achromat, is it 58 to 72mm?

[Larry Kamerman]

Phil, thanks so much for your work and for sharing the results with us. Very much appreciated.

[Ing Poh Hii]

Thank you very much Dennis, now I understand why Brevis is shorten then other adapters because of the use of bigger achromat.

But I have a question about the handling of exposure & midtone with Brevis, I remembered I have asked you before and your suggestion is to use more ND to prevent over-explosure.

Phil, please can I know how much ND you have applied to Brevis when doing the test ?

I am happy to step-down aperture and add more ND filters but my concern is whether the image will still look as nature as SGPro ? Please see my attachment for what I am concerning...

Sorry to Phil, as I alter your image without your permission first ;p. As you can see, even Brevis have aperture closed down 1 & half stop but the image still over-exposure...

Phil, if you are going to make the test with CF3 soon, please can you try to make the image without significant over-exposure, I just wonder how much ND & aperture-closing will Brevis need and how would the image look like ?

many thanks again.

[Phil Bloom]

Ing, the overexposure is NOTHING to do with the Brevis...it's to do with a tired and cold camera operator.

No ND was used in any of the tests. Yes if using the Brevis in a bright day outside with the standard diffuser ND on the 35mm lens is recommended.

Ing I will try not to overexpose in the future!!!!! What it does show is I am able to overexpose the Brevis at F8 when the other adaptors I couldn't even get the correct exposure!!

[Dennis Wood]

Phil, yes, 72-58. Any camera shop should have filter wrenches like these: http://www.amazon.com/Adorama-Filter.../dp/B00009R8I4 to remove them if you need some extra grip. Rather than oil based lubricant, I'd suggest a very light touch of graphite (dry lube). That way there's no chance of lens coating contamination, or getting lube on the outside of the ring! Graphite also has the advantage, as a dry lube, of not attracting dirt. A pencil is a cheap source, or you can purchase graphite lube in any hardware type store. Just make sure you blow off the threads before assembling.

[Ing Poh Hii]

Thank you Phil for your confirmation, so overexposure is nothing to do with Brevis... I saw many sample footages from Brevis users (including Dennis own sample), most of them have a lot of "over-exposure" here and there, Dennis told me that makes more filmic look while I really don't like that look and feel (as real film has more lattitude even in over-exposure image).

That is why I keep wondering can Brevis make a good outdoor image without over-exposure ?

Since you confirm it is nothing to do with Brevis, please can you tell me based on your experience, what f-stop and ND would be required for the same image you took in the test which would prevent over-exposure ? will it make even darken then SGPro in a very un-nature look and feel. Yes, another thing I find out about many Brevis footages are, either a lot of over-exposure or simply too dark, another filmic ? Like a recent footage from Brevis user: Christopher Barry at www.siliconcine.net, he got the similar problem in handling exposure in his latest outdoor test (test 3, Brevis with Nikon 85mm F2.0), either too bright or the front-object is too dark to see...

I am really worrying that the range of mid-tone from Brevis is far too less comparing to SGPro & M2.

Or trying to keep good image without over-exposure is just as difficult as trying to keep minimun light lost in M2 & SGPro ?

Or it is the trend of filmic from everyone ?

mm.. next time please call me out too, I will make sure you will get very comfortable in making test, such as bring extra jacket and some hot drinks.. or some asian-curry :p.. And I can carry heavy stuff for you, that might help a bit :D.

[Phil Bloom]

thanks Ing. To be honest until Spring/ Summer comes I couldnt really advise about daylight stuff outside, most of the stuff I have shot has been indoors or crappy winter grey light outside.

I would recommend a selection of ND filters, probably best to get them for a matte box otherwise you need to get different sizes for different lenses.

[Ing Poh Hii]

Thanks a lot again Phil, especially the tips of matte box...

Yes I am looking closely to Dennis' FF & matte box, just wonder when will it be available on sell and the total cost of Brevis + CF3 + FF + Mattebox + Rod support + ND...

Other then saving money, I really don't know what else I can do these days.. ha.

[Phil Bloom]

honestly...quite a lot. you no longer in blighty?

[Dennis Hingsberg]

Originally Posted by Ing Poh Hii

Since you confirm it is nothing to do with Brevis, please can you tell me based on your experience, what f-stop and ND would be required for the same image you took in the test which would prevent over-exposure ? will it make even darken then SGPro in a very un-nature look and feel. Yes, another thing I find out about many Brevis footages are, either a lot of over-exposure or simply too dark, another filmic ? Like a recent footage from Brevis user: Christopher Barry at www.siliconcine.net, he got the similar problem in handling exposure in his latest outdoor test (test 3, Brevis with Nikon 85mm F2.0), either too bright or the front-object is too dark to see...

Using the same lens f-stop you would use a ND4 (also known as .6) to stop down by exactly 2 stops and get the approximate same exposure level.

It would make it darker for the SGPro or M2 so you would not use the ND filter in that case.

Hope that helps.

[Ilya Stone]

I'm sorry, I must be missing something. I don't see where the review is. Are the comparison photos in this thread, or on Phil Bloom's website? I can't seem to find anything.