Redrock, Brevis, SGPro Shootout

Phil Bloom · January 31st, 2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ing Poh Hii

I have to put all my faith to CF3 now, Dennis, is it possible to buy Brevis with CF3 instead of CF1 ? And you haven't setup a bundle sales of Brevis + rod support + FF + mattebox in your e-commerce website yet... it would be good to know how much I can save if I purchase all in one go...

The way the CF screens work, correct me if I am wrong Dennis, is you always start with the standard CF1 then add either the CF2 or CF3 on top of it.

Trust me Ing, you WILL want the standard screen for inside and low light, especially if you want to do weddings with it. The CF3 has very lovely BOKEH from what I can see and a super shallow depth of field, fine for very set up shots and portraits type stuff but anything moving unpredicatably and you will find it a challenge to keep focus. It's good to use each screen for the right situation. I am lucky enough to have to Brevis adaptos. One with the standard diffuser and one with CF2, soon to be replaced by CF3. If you are serious about using just a 35mm adaptor you should consider a similar setup.

Chad Terpstra · January 31st, 2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Winter

I ordered a 5 power low contrast filter, a .9 ND filter today and the CF3 a couple weeks ago to use with my Brevis, I'll offer up some outdoor footage with, without filters, different lenses...as soon as it arrives.

That's interesting that you say that because in doing so you would become my personal hero. Thanks! ;-)

Dennis Hingsberg · January 31st, 2007, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

Dennis Wood is sending me one. As soon as I do I will shoot the same scene with the three different CF screens

Do you ever rest? :p

Phil Bloom · January 31st, 2007, 05:20 PM

Only at Christmas...that's about 333 days to go isn't it?!

Ben Winter · January 31st, 2007, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

The way the CF screens work, correct me if I am wrong Dennis, is you always start with the standard CF1 then add either the CF2 or CF3 on top of it.

Trust me Ing, you WILL want the standard screen for inside and low light, especially if you want to do weddings with it. The CF3 has very lovely BOKEH from what I can see and a super shallow depth of field, fine for very set up shots and portraits type stuff but anything moving unpredicatably and you will find it a challenge to keep focus. It's good to use each screen for the right situation. I am lucky enough to have to Brevis adaptos. One with the standard diffuser and one with CF2, soon to be replaced by CF3. If you are serious about using just a 35mm adaptor you should consider a similar setup.

The CF1 and CF2 diffusers function together. The CF3 replaces them completely and functions alone.

Gosh...shooting a wedding with an adapter would be a LOT of fun but just soo much more work. I can't imagine it...however I've always done my weddings alone so I'm running from place to place to get all the shots and can't imagine changing lenses or dealing with adapter issues on top of that...

Ian Lim · February 1st, 2007, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ing Poh Hii

Hi my dear neighbour Ian :D, nice to know you here :D. I haven't own a 35mm adapter yet but definitely I believe it will be as challenging and as rewarding to have it for videoing wedding ceremony (as I am tired to those deep DOF camera especially HDV which reveals everything clear and sharp).

I guess you are probably chinese too so you would know how "chaos" & rushing the typical chinese wedding is. Thus an adapter along can't do the job, I believe a FF is a must for such dynamic and live environment. Also I must have at least two cameras working on the field, one without 35mm adapter for usual shot, one with 35mm adapter for interest composition and special moments.

I would have to get one adapter and try it out before I can really comment how good I can apply it to wedding video. I will let you know when I got one :-).

Yes, typical chinese weddings are absolutely 'chaos' :) I'm doing a lot of weddings too and currently I'm waiting for Brevis to arrive. My consideration is if you're going to use 35mm adapter, it would take at least THREE cameras working on the field (I'm doing 2 cameras shooting all the time). One with the adapter (just for special moments) and the other two without adapter.

And yes, there will be blood :)

Ash Greyson · February 1st, 2007, 12:43 AM

It is always fun to talk about the "results" of these "tests" but, as Phil points out, you cant make sweeping conclusions. Add the fact that conditions werent optimum, one was professionally set up and used different lenses and you really muddy the waters. What this really proves, is that all 3 adapters are good enough. It is like the XL2 versus DVX or A1 versus HVX tests and arguments, all are good enough, if they werent, there would be nobody who cared enough to argue.

One interesting thing is that people are talking about the dynamic range of the Brevis. The standard diffuser, CF1, diffuses less...which of course effects exposure. It is ultimately the CAMERA not the adapter that determines dynamic range. It is like saying a Canon F1.2 lens has less dynamic range than a Canon F4 lens.

I have used an earlier revision of the Brevis and liked it but decided to try out several other adapters before committing. All were good enough, so I chose the Brevis based on ease of use, multiple set-up options and ultimately what I consider the most forward thinking developer. When it arrives in the next couple weeks I will be pushing it to the limit on some MAJOR projects. Stuff that will be shown on major network TV, in theaters, etc. so I will keep you posted...

ash =o)

Ian Lim · February 1st, 2007, 03:37 AM

Phil, you mentioned this on the shootout (review):

"I have a couple of Nikon mount Zeiss Planar lenses. Nice optics but focus pulls are tough as there is a lot of travel to change focus. Much more than the equivalent Nikor lenses. I wouldn’t really recommend them for adaptors."

Is it really hard to use those lenses (to pull focus)? I'm planning to purchase on of those: http://www.jpckemang.com/detail.php?...04577aa2f80f3e

Ing Poh Hii · February 1st, 2007, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Lim

Yes, typical chinese weddings are absolutely 'chaos' :) I'm doing a lot of weddings too and currently I'm waiting for Brevis to arrive. My consideration is if you're going to use 35mm adapter, it would take at least THREE cameras working on the field (I'm doing 2 cameras shooting all the time). One with the adapter (just for special moments) and the other two without adapter.

And yes, there will be blood :)

Hi Ian, look like you are going to get an adapter earlier then me, please do share your experience to me once you have them :D. Do you also get the FF or you already have one ? What camera do you use ?

Hope to learn from you more soon ; ).

Ing Poh Hii · February 1st, 2007, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

The way the CF screens work, correct me if I am wrong Dennis, is you always start with the standard CF1 then add either the CF2 or CF3 on top of it.

Trust me Ing, you WILL want the standard screen for inside and low light, especially if you want to do weddings with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Winter

The CF1 and CF2 diffusers function together. The CF3 replaces them completely and functions alone.

Gosh...shooting a wedding with an adapter would be a LOT of fun but just soo much more work. I can't imagine it...however I've always done my weddings alone so I'm running from place to place to get all the shots and can't imagine changing lenses or dealing with adapter issues on top of that...

Thank you both, I thought CF1,2 & 3 are independent to each other, sound like I can't avoid to invest in all of them if I go for Brevis.

One question (stupid one again), can I easily replace the CF without removing mattebox, FF & Brevis once they are attached to the camera ? Shooting between indoor and outdoor happens very frequently in typical chinese wedding, if I have to get off the whole gear just to replace a CF, then get back to put on filters, adjust aperture, check exposure and shoot.. mostly I will miss the important shot already.

If that is not easy, then I would have to have 3 cameras working on the field, one with adapter indoor, one with adapter outdoor, one without for regular shot.. Oh, Ian Lim, is this what you are thinking ? This is truely blooding work...

Chan Ee Jien · February 1st, 2007, 08:46 AM

You need to remove the carbon tube to replace the CF, so you probably would have to remove the matte box and others when doing so.

You have to be careful of dusty environments too so changing it on the run may not be such a wise idea.

Sam Jankis · February 1st, 2007, 09:45 AM

If you really need both CF1 and CF3 on a shoot... it'd be best to just have two Brevis units. If you have time before a shoot to change diffusers, then you only need one.

Phil Bloom · February 1st, 2007, 01:25 PM

without a doubt changing diffusers during a wedding is a terrible idea. It's bad enough changing lenses!!!

The Zeiss lenses are lovely stills lenses but I think you are better off with the Nikors unless you invest in a good follow focus for them. The travel is so great to change focus

Dennis Wood · February 1st, 2007, 09:27 PM

Phil, we're working on the issue of travel with both electronic and manual version of our FF units. The electronic is super simple as turn ratios can be altered with the flip of a switch. The manual unit will have several drive gears so turn ratio can be altered.

Diffuser swaps are not something I'd suggest at a wedding! However, if you have a clean space and 5 minutes of peace...it's completely doable. You can however get a lot of different looks with CF1 (my choice for weddings where low light is a factor) by simply using a longer lens. Phil showed outstanding control of DOF with different lenses in his Homeless Portraits clip using CF1.

Ben, we stopped CF3 production for a week or so to improve yield. We've back in production so CF3 should be out to you tomorrow with your drive upgrade parts.

Phil, 12 000 hits ... you've generated an astonishing level of interest in this thread!

Ian Lim · February 2nd, 2007, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ing Poh Hii

Hi Ian, look like you are going to get an adapter earlier then me, please do share your experience to me once you have them :D. Do you also get the FF or you already have one ? What camera do you use ?

Hope to learn from you more soon ; ).

Ing, I'm using Sony FX1E and I have 4 of them. I don't have any FF yet, still waiting for Cinevate's or something from Hyson (www.hysonfilms.com -- btw, anyone got news from Joel?). But absolutely I will want FF to ease everything.

January 31st, 2007, 05:20 PM	#199
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	Only at Christmas...that's about 333 days to go isn't it?! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

February 1st, 2007, 01:25 PM	#208
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	without a doubt changing diffusers during a wedding is a terrible idea. It's bad enough changing lenses!!! The Zeiss lenses are lovely stills lenses but I think you are better off with the Nikors unless you invest in a good follow focus for them. The travel is so great to change focus __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

February 1st, 2007, 09:27 PM	#209
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Phil, we're working on the issue of travel with both electronic and manual version of our FF units. The electronic is super simple as turn ratios can be altered with the flip of a switch. The manual unit will have several drive gears so turn ratio can be altered. Diffuser swaps are not something I'd suggest at a wedding! However, if you have a clean space and 5 minutes of peace...it's completely doable. You can however get a lot of different looks with CF1 (my choice for weddings where low light is a factor) by simply using a longer lens. Phil showed outstanding control of DOF with different lenses in his Homeless Portraits clip using CF1. Ben, we stopped CF3 production for a week or so to improve yield. We've back in production so CF3 should be out to you tomorrow with your drive upgrade parts. Phil, 12 000 hits ... you've generated an astonishing level of interest in this thread! Last edited by Dennis Wood; February 1st, 2007 at 10:00 PM.

February 1st, 2007, 12:43 AM	#202
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	It is always fun to talk about the "results" of these "tests" but, as Phil points out, you cant make sweeping conclusions. Add the fact that conditions werent optimum, one was professionally set up and used different lenses and you really muddy the waters. What this really proves, is that all 3 adapters are good enough. It is like the XL2 versus DVX or A1 versus HVX tests and arguments, all are good enough, if they werent, there would be nobody who cared enough to argue. One interesting thing is that people are talking about the dynamic range of the Brevis. The standard diffuser, CF1, diffuses less...which of course effects exposure. It is ultimately the CAMERA not the adapter that determines dynamic range. It is like saying a Canon F1.2 lens has less dynamic range than a Canon F4 lens. I have used an earlier revision of the Brevis and liked it but decided to try out several other adapters before committing. All were good enough, so I chose the Brevis based on ease of use, multiple set-up options and ultimately what I consider the most forward thinking developer. When it arrives in the next couple weeks I will be pushing it to the limit on some MAJOR projects. Stuff that will be shown on major network TV, in theaters, etc. so I will keep you posted... ash =o)

February 1st, 2007, 03:37 AM	#203
Ian Lim Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 178	Phil, you mentioned this on the shootout (review): "I have a couple of Nikon mount Zeiss Planar lenses. Nice optics but focus pulls are tough as there is a lot of travel to change focus. Much more than the equivalent Nikor lenses. I wouldn’t really recommend them for adaptors." Is it really hard to use those lenses (to pull focus)? I'm planning to purchase on of those: http://www.jpckemang.com/detail.php?...04577aa2f80f3e

February 1st, 2007, 08:46 AM	#206
Chan Ee Jien Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Malaysia Posts: 67	You need to remove the carbon tube to replace the CF, so you probably would have to remove the matte box and others when doing so. You have to be careful of dusty environments too so changing it on the run may not be such a wise idea.

February 1st, 2007, 09:45 AM	#207
Sam Jankis Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Pete, FL Posts: 223	If you really need both CF1 and CF3 on a shoot... it'd be best to just have two Brevis units. If you have time before a shoot to change diffusers, then you only need one.