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Old January 3rd, 2007, 05:11 PM   #1
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Has Anyone Ever Made A Thread Lens To SLR Lens?

I have been thinking really hard about this. I am tying to see if anyone has, or would even think its possible to make something like this.
My thought for it goes kinda like this:
'If you take a 27mm base from the camera, up to a 35mm or so size thread, then go make a locking system emulating the same kind of system seen on a slr (DSLR).
You can then just attach any lens with that style system. Right? So this would work, right?' In theory, I think it could. But then again, I am not very acknowledged of in this area.

What do you guys think? Has anyone ever seen anything like this?

Thanks!
~Gabriel
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Old January 6th, 2007, 11:28 PM   #2
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So is this something that just is not a clear enough topic to get a reply on?
I would really like to get some sort of answer on this. I am trying to figure out if something along these lines would work. If this does not turn out, then I will just buy the standard 27mm lenses.

Please post something if you have any thoughts on this.
Thanks!
~Gabriel
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Old January 7th, 2007, 02:09 AM   #3
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Gabriel.


Your enquiry is very unspecific, such that I am not really sure what you are after. I don't think anyone including myself is going to get out of bed to research and develop your question before they even contemplate researching and developing an answer for you.


So here's a start and let's see where we can go from there.


1.

What now do you use your camera for, (wildlife videography, weddings, simple family events, development of movie making skillls with an ambition to one day be a director, actor, director of photography, editor, visual effects specialist, writer (uses camera to see how a scene plays out.)

2.

What are you trying to build?

Ie., simply modify or hack a camera to take other lenses direct-to-camera (eg., the Italian FX1 - Nikon SLR lens mod ) or make or modify a something to create 35mm movie-like images into your camera (homebuilds such as AGUS35, ALDU35, or budget level buy-ins such as Redrock M2, SGPro, LETUS35, Brevis35, up to the fully professional level P+S Technik Mini35/Pro35 and Movietube products) or modify a built-in lens style camera for direct groundglass image relay (proposed HVX-200 direct relay mod).

3.

What camera type and model are you using right now you want to make changes to. (Eg, simple handycam, Sony PD170, JVC GY HD100). Your answers to Question 1. will help determine what changes you need to make to your existing camera or if you need to abandon it and buy something else.


You've taken the trouble to measure up the 27mm size of something. - I presume it is the front filter mount diameter of a camera, and guess from this it is a budget palmcorder style camera.


Once you nail your quest down to your objective, tell us what your actual personal skills or crafts are and give some detail of what you actually have in your hands to use, the chances of finding somebody here who has done a particular mod to a particular camera type will be pretty good.


A word of advice from a frustrated relic. My first moviemaking aspirations kicked in at about 11 years of age when I saw my first Bolex RX5 16mm cam in the hands of a documentary film-maker.

There were no filmschools here, costs of production equipment versus disposable income of my family were astronomical, knowledge was almost impossible to get from where I was then at.

Other sensible career paths were then the most viable options for me. There was no local industry except for TV news and commercials. As far as film-craft goes, I taught myself. As equipment became obsolete and affordable, I bought stuff in and learned to use it. Trouble is, you are always playing catch-up on systems and methods which are already a generation or two obsolete.

I could have been exceptionaly ambitious and motivated and gone to where the people were and the industry was then happening, but I wasn't. I chose to do it the harder way on my own.

At 58, with inferior eyesight, stiff joints and a general level of unfitness, I have spent a lifetime sporadically picking up bits and pieces of the knowing here and there, am still learning and have not progressed much beyond being a tourist in the industry.

In today's world, if starting over at the young end of the clock, I would be more inclined to do some formal intensive learning at a college or film-school to get the essential up-to-date basics under my belt and use their equipment which will be closer to current generation and practices.

It will be too easy to get bogged down into the timeconsuming and frustrating business of making equipment do more than it is capable of.

In your patch, from reading of www.indieclub.com posts, it seems there is a vibrant and enthusiastic independent moviemaking population and emerging industry in or near to your capital city. If you are not already plugged in to that film-making community, it might be worthwhile posting on Indieclub or even here in the general forums to try and build up some networks and information.

I have looked at your website and deduce from it that you are yet a student or have just finished being one. The large font masthead printing has two spelling errors.

If you are serious about putting up a web based storefront, and want people to take your efforts seriously, you need to get that sorted at least.

For the future in anything you do, the first things you need to look at are personal organisation, time management and thoroughness.

These aspects are the most important foundation of any part of the moviemaking craft. Without this personal self-discipline you will tie yourself down in deadends, lost time and frustration and most critically, the confidence and trust of others in your abilities.

Last edited by Bob Hart; January 7th, 2007 at 03:07 AM.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 01:27 PM   #4
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Hi Bob, thank you for your reply, and taking the time to write such a long post...

Yes, it is unspecific, and I am sorry about that. It could be because I do not know much about what I was trying to do.

Answer to question 1: I use my camera for Wildlife Videography. I also am going to a DP in the dear future. Thus fore, I am trying to gain some experience with professional style lenses.

2: In a way, I guess you could call it a "hack". But I would more so call it a work around. The Idea was if I could take my small camera and somehow attach a pro video lens, or a slr/dslr lens. I thought if I could do that, I could get some practice with real focus rings and zoom lenses.

3: I use the canon Elura 100.

Yes, it is a "budget" palmcorder, but its by no means bad. It has a 27mm thread size on the front of the lens for filters, W/A, and Telephoto.

If you are talking about hand crafting skills that I have, Then I would say not a hole lot. But I have never tried. II would say I have a good chance at it, due to the rest of my family having good craftsmanship. Plus, I know a bit of people who are great at that kind of stuff. I have access to a big variety of tools. So that is not a problem.

I have yet to finish High School (I am "fresh meat"), but once I do, I plan on going to film school. Thanks for the website.

Would you mind to point out the spelling errors? I looked over the hole site along with someone else trying to find one, but we could not. Please point this out to me if you have the time. I am working on getting a "professional" looking website. This is just what I plan on using for now. I am no webmaster by any-means. I just try my best and use what I have for the time of being.

And yes, I do need to be more organized and so forth. but i am still learning. I know that is no excuse to not have "thoroughness". But I'm new to all of this, and I need help from other people like you, to point these things out, so I can get a better hold of it.

Thanks for the help. I hope maybe now there is a better understanding of what I was trying to get at.
~Gabriel
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Old January 7th, 2007, 06:12 PM   #5
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth-of-field_adapter

Pretty much sums it up.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 10:45 PM   #6
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Wow, Rich! Thanks alot! That is almost exactly what I was looking for! I think I am going to have to find a way to make me one of those...

Thanks alot guys!
~Gabriel

PS: The DVinfo references in that link are awesome! I am a proud member of DVinfo.net...
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Old January 7th, 2007, 11:11 PM   #7
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Wikipedia pretty much sums it up.


Your Canon is good for what you want to do right now.

Putting a groundglass based adaptor on front of your Elura plus a still-camera lens set, f1.8 aperture 28mm, 50mm and 85mm, would give you the toolset for learning the basic setups and lensing techniques. But getting it done is going to take up a lot of your valuable time and energy, school vacation break excepted.

Until you can get into a formal learning process for film craft, I would be inclined to approach self-educaton for the image side of the moviemaking process along two streams.


1.

Learning to create the camera moves, pans, tilts, tracks, follows, leading with your frame ahead of moves, plus a bit of creative directing thrown in - without modifying your Elura.

- Do some scenes, have some fun with others in quick impro dramas, get the feel without worrying too much about the image quality. Mix up run and gun with static camera positions. Do most of it hand-held. It is going to look like crap visually but hopefully you will develop a sense for pacing (making time pass realistically) and motion but you won't bore your participants with long setup times and nitpicking "get-it-rightedness". If they enjoy. They will come for your next call.

You will also learn that trying to muster and keep a voluntary cast together is like trying to recover a spilled bag of marbles from the floor of a moving school bus full of other kids. This is where among other things you will find whether you have the motivational and leadership skills of a director. For some, team leading is a natural talent, you know the charisma thing, for others it has to be learned.


2.

Learning manual lensing skills, framing, composition (like rule of thirds and noseroom), how to paint with light, perspective. -

Given you want to learn to use manual lenses, - No need to wear out your Elura just yet. Can be done with a still-image camera, either a digital SLR with detachable lenses or film SLR camera with detachable lenses.

I would favour the digital SLR for lower operating costs versus film but if you can borrow a film camera, or it is easier to get hold of, then use that.

Each can give you larger image formats than the Elura's small CCD and enable you to experiment with manual lenses and "depth-of-field", "field of view" and perspective, all tools for creating a custom look for a dramatic circumstance.

Your SLR first lens, if you can afford it, might best be a zoom capable of aperture f2.8 and ballpark of 28mm to 85mm range.

Three prime lenses of f1.8, 28mm, f1.8, 50mm and f1.8, 85mm might cost more. If you can get hold of them, choose them in preference to the zoom as you will have slightly more shallow depth of field ability with them and better sharpness. These you can later fit to your groundglass relay device if you decide to build or buy one in.

Fixed prime lenses are a pain compared to a zoom because you have to physically move the camera position to get the frame and composition right.

As a student, you are more likely to be able to borrow the digital or film SLR camera than have the means to buy in a groundglass image relay device.

If your school does a still-image photography option, you might try to get involved there in preference to a video option if becoming a DP is more your career intention. It will be a side-step but may help you become a better cameraman sooner than fighting your way to the front in a more popular videography option.

If wildlife videography is going to be your specialty, then the still-image photography option may serve you better.

Next stop down on this DVinfo forum subsection is "Under water over land" which is dedicated to nature and wildlife which I guess you have already found.

For your holday or semester breaks or school work-experience program, it might be worthwhile looking up wedding or event stills photographers and enquire if you can assist carry their stuff around and look over their shoulder while they work.

They won't have time to instruct you technically but if you can get attached, what you will observe will be their people skills on the job in the real world. You will need to be prepared to dress appropriately for this environment.

Wedding videographers would be another try, but these folk might be more under the pump, carrying more equipment around, have a regular light crew if any and less willing to have somebody along who might get in the way.

My comments here are highly speculative because Washington is not Australia.

The guy who makes the LETUS35, Quyen Le, lives up your way and might be worth contacting if not too far away from you.

Finally the "fresh meat" comment. As a newcomer, it is all a new slate, no stuff to un-learn or old habits and traditions to break out of. The challenge is being able to separate good information from distractions.

A formal intensive course will help you more and the info you get there may be more valid than what you may find doing it alone.

There are those who say that people who teach audiovisual arts have not been able to prosper their craft in the real world. Depending on the individual, that may or may not be so.

The counter to this comment is that there are people who have a genuine passion for teaching others and this this is where their best role exists

Don't get distracted by other participants at filmschools who want to challenge their lecturers beyond sensible questions and debate.

Some older participants who know a little and believe they know a lot more can be real pests at this and can drag others into their games. The lecturers will defend themselves. Just suck up all the information and practice you can, but that of course is for the future.

Think seriously about learning another unrelated skill or craft so that that during lean times, you have another earner to fall back upon. As a emerging independent you will need to have an earner in order to grubstake your first movie projects.

Harrison Ford, the actor, is a carpenter or builder by trade and apparently sometimes keeps his hand in during breaks by visiting the set constructors. In the movie "Witness" where he uses a plane to dress a piece of wood to re-build the birdhouse, you can see he knew what he was doing.

A local live theatre actor here is a butcher by trade, has worked with London's best but can fall back on his trade between gigs.

Hopefully, others with more valid comments than mine will chime in here and put right anything errant I have said here.


Your website errors :-


On my PC Windows 98SE system

Your masthead text "Crystal Dragon" reads as "Crystal Dragoo"

Your link to "Productions" reads "Productioos"

If your have broadband Youtube time to waste, some of my AGUS35 experiments are posted under the nama of "agus35monk"

There is other stuff at "www.dvinfo.net/media/hart" and
Richard Mellor's experiments may still be at "www.dvinfo.net/media/mellor".
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Old January 7th, 2007, 11:32 PM   #8
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Thanks again Bob! And no, my school does not have any photography or videography classes. The reason for that, is that I am home schooled. that makes some thing more difficult. However, I am working on meeting up with a local photographer who I have met before. I might be able to get some equipment from him.

So having time to build something, is not a problem at all! Believe, I have to much time on my hands, lol.

Thats my other problem, getting actors... But that is another thread. I figured I would just use my local library (I know people who know people), and advertise on craigslist.

Thanks for all the comments! You have been a big help to me! Thanks alot!

Thanks everyone!
~Gabriel
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Old January 7th, 2007, 11:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hart
Wikipedia pretty much sums it up.


Your website errors :-


On my PC Windows 98SE system

Your masthead text "Crystal Dragon" reads as "Crystal Dragoo"

Your link to "Productions" reads "Productioos"

If your have broadband Youtube time to waste, some of my AGUS35 experiments are posted under the nama of "agus35monk"

There is other stuff at "www.dvinfo.net/media/hart" and
Richard Mellor's experiments may still be at "www.dvinfo.net/media/mellor".
Thats very strange.. In Firefox, and safari, it looks fine. And on my windows XP pro 2000 Firefox, it looks fine. I don't understand what is going on. I will have to look around on this

Thanks for the heads up. I'll try and fix this.
~Gabriel
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Old January 8th, 2007, 12:42 AM   #10
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Home Schooling - has upsides and downsides.

Upside. - Potentially tailor made for the individual to progress 100% effectively at own pace in a flexible timeframe. Self-management and self-motivational skills can become enhanced.

Downside. - People skills can sometimes be held back if the homeschooling enviroment is an isolated one like distance education. Depending on your home circumstances, (living in a distant isolated setting with just the small family around you versus being home-schooled but otherwise having lots of social interaction), your team leadership skills may need a lot of work if directing controlled action drama is your intended career choice.

Your neighborhood photographer. - Don't just borrow the equipment. That person has between the ears, brains and experience. If he or she is not concerned with having you look over the shoulder and does people portraits as well as nature, landscape and willdlife, take time to observe this person working the technology while interacting with people, breaking the introductory ice quickly, making their subjects feel at ease, distractive chatter, making them laugh, smile, relax for the shot.

For homebuild project advice, Redrock have their own home-build design based on their original prototyping. They also sell the hardest part to make, the groundglass.

Their design does not flip the image. Also look up Jim Lafferty's posts. He also had a home-build tutorial up on a website for a while. His current project uses a fixed groundglass. I don't think his device flips the image upright either.

It seems the most reliable designs which can be built with most consistent success by persons with a basic handyman skill set are the ones based on electronic project boxes.

So far as I know, Quyen Le's Letus35 flip models are the only alternative devices that flip the image.

With any of these simpler home-build groundglass devices, the image the camera sees and records is upside down and there is a lot of hassle making it rightway up again. Two methods, - turn the camera upside down or flip in the computer when editing.

To include the image flip function into the device itself involves a lot of complicated design and building. The cost goes up because you have to buy in specialist surface coated mirrors or prisms. Each method, mirrors or prisms has its plus and minus points. The P+STechnik Mini35 is believed to use both.

Good luck.

FOOTNOTE:

Ignore my criticising comment on the website masthead. The font is a bit tricky.

The letter "N" looks like a letter "O" unless you study it closely on my screen, then it is obvous that there is a gap on bottom of the "N" which is not there on the letter "O"

Last edited by Bob Hart; January 8th, 2007 at 11:51 AM.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 12:31 PM   #11
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Thanks again Bob!

Yes, homeschooling does have its advantages. And believe me, I am thankful for them. But the lack of social activity is a bit of a down side. I still talk to people online and in real life now and then. But it is still little. And I do lack in leadership skills. I would like to become better, but that can only happen over time.

Thanks for the advice on the photography thing. I plan on doing this. Thankfully, he seems to have a bit of free time. And like you said earlier, its great thing to have a second thing to fall back on to make money. He does, and as a matter of fact, he works in construction or carpentry.

And I just found Daniel's DOF adapter with instructions on how to make one. http://www.jetsetmodels.info/news.htm

And it was made for cameras like mine. And I can then flip the image in my editing program.

Thanks for all the advise,
~Gabriel
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