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Old April 11th, 2007, 03:25 PM   #16
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Steven:

Sorry, if you believe I went OT. Thought red issue was part of the detail issue. I wondered if it was a 24 p or Letus issue. I have not dealt with anything that pronouced on my Sony VX2000 or FX1 in past.

In general the video and detail is spectacular even with the adapter. My question in the previous post was raised because I'm just wondering if you think the 35mm adapter of any type has gone far enough to get you something as spectacular as your high definition footage for instance that you posted a few months back from Yellowstone.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 03:29 PM   #17
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i've shot some really oversaturated reds on at least a dozen DV cams and never experienced anything close to that. i don't find it acceptable at all. who's comfortable dropping $4K on a cam only to "avoid" certain reds? i'm shooting in mexico like 1/3 of the year. it's basically impossible.

toot sweet, the first "red" thing i'd shoot would be the blood of that salesman.

now i have to go test a bunch of friggin' red BS things on this A1 while I still have the opportunity to return it.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 03:30 PM   #18
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No, it wouldn't be that good. I think I will use it for more narrative stuff when I get to doing it. I will also be using it for medium and closeups of wildlife and landscapes. It will depend on the situation basically. I think it brings a unique feel to the frame so I'll more than likely experiment with it a lot to see what happens.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 03:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Weiss View Post
i've shot some really oversaturated reds on at least a dozen DV cams and never experienced anything close to that. i don't find it acceptable at all. who's comfortable dropping $4K on a cam only to "avoid" certain reds? i'm shooting in mexico like 1/3 of the year. it's basically impossible.

toot sweet, the first "red" thing i'd shoot would be the blood of that salesman.

now i have to go test a bunch of friggin' red BS things on this A1 while I still have the opportunity to return it.
Eric,

There are certain reds with certain values that do not do well on HDV/DV. If you go over to the PRESET LIBRARY thread, you will see that I took a shot of my son in a red baseball shirt and it did fine. It's like a bass frequency and the way one in particular would cause the speaker to vibrate momentarily. All other frequencies, including very similar ones do not react this way.

Also, if you are going to encounter a lot of reds in your shot, you would need to take the color gain way down anyway as a general rule. You can pump it up again in post.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 03:50 PM   #20
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Oh, I'm fully aware. Further, people welcome the feeling of a vibrating bass.
This is completely different.

When I said "I'm shooting in Mexico 1/3 of the year" ..I meant that
I have been for several years and will continue to do so. I will know in a few moments as to what cam I will be doing it with.

I'm actually lining up a bunch of "red" things right now. lol.

I've been shooting for probably 15 years and DV for at least 10. I find it really hard to believe that I've just never run across "that red."

On your latest post it's orange, red, and dark red. I really can't believe you accept this and pass it off as "nature of the format."
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Old April 11th, 2007, 03:54 PM   #21
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I pass this off as something that was not unexpected when I was using a preset that intensifies colors to the extent VIVIDRGB combined with Nikon lenses does.

For me to shoot something planned with the same setup, I would use one of the flatter presets and this would not be a problem. I have shot quite a lot of reds with the Letus using my XLH1 with no problems.

So what I am accepting is that there is a problem in general with how HDV and DV formats handle some kinds of reds. Most of them are acceptable if not cranked to the max like I have done.

Does that make sense?

If you look at Canon's promo video for the XHA1, you will see that there are lots of reds in many shots and they do fine.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 04:19 PM   #22
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Indeed. In fact - the letus, nikon, preset combo is what I was attributing it to ( or the encoding ) until Chris posted his "bucket" and Will informed us about his Xl2. So now I'm concerned.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 04:28 PM   #23
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Okay, let us know the results of your own tests.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 05:42 PM   #24
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Wow, it seems like it's a 24fps thing.

I gathered a lot of red items and just found but one, the grip on my pliers, that pulsed at an unacceptable level..but only in 24f! Some other shades were slightly noisy. In 60i they were all solid.

Which would explain the debate - hence, "24 fps, always." and "The A1 is my first 24f cam."

Chris and Will, were you shooting in 24 as well?

Since I never experienced anything like this on my Xl1-S or GL2 - but Will did on the XL2, 24fps would again explain it.

I went through all of the presets, including Wolfgang's, which takes the red really over the top. In 60i it's awesome. Everything looked pretty good.

I'm relieved. I mainly shoot 60i.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 06:02 PM   #25
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I shoot 24f all the time and never had trouble with reds, even ridiculously saturated ones.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 09:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Weiss View Post
Wow, it seems like it's a 24fps thing.

Which would explain the debate - hence, "24 fps, always." and "The A1 is my first 24f cam."

Chris and Will, were you shooting in 24 as well?

.
Yes. With my new 24p rig, the HV20. This was my first 24p use with the adapters. Before that I was Sony Fx1 60i
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Old April 12th, 2007, 07:35 AM   #27
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We shot 24p exclusively with the XL2.

There seemed to be one particular shade of red that caused problems.
Usually it was something around 255 Red (in photoshop your RGB
values are Red: 0-255 Green: 0-255 Blue: 0-255) so it's only the most vivid
of Reds. I believe we fixed it by just adjusting the red saturation
in our presets, but every once and awhile it would give us trouble.
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Old April 12th, 2007, 11:52 AM   #28
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well, i think we have found it. will can even pinpoint it.

what's interesting is that it is consistant across 3 different Canon cams.

it took me quite a bit of "reds" to get that pulse.
one item out of roughly two dozen. reds that did not
pulse could also be "ridiculously saturated" as marlon stated.

i think the letus and the preset may increase that artifact over a wider range of colors.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 01:22 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Weiss View Post
well, i think we have found it. will can even pinpoint it.

what's interesting is that it is consistant across 3 different Canon cams.

it took me quite a bit of "reds" to get that pulse.
one item out of roughly two dozen. reds that did not
pulse could also be "ridiculously saturated" as marlon stated.

i think the letus and the preset may increase that artifact over a wider range of colors.
Check this one out. The toy car behind looks like it is greenscreened against girls pants:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y2763PSV

Has anybody found difference in 24p v. 60I
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Old April 14th, 2007, 09:34 AM   #30
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yikes! i don't get anything like that in 60i.

what was your shutter speed?

default on the A1 at 24f is 1/24. I'd like to try some red tests again
at 1/48 and see if that makes any difference.
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