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Old April 20th, 2007, 07:46 AM   #16
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Not a problem at all Chris. This Sample Clips area of the forum really is just for sharing clips, not getting into technical discussions. There is a whole area in this forum devoted to 35mm adapters.

More often than not, I find threads quickly go off-topic and that can sometimes be frustrating.

Having said that, your opinion is always welcome. We are not in the business of making anyone feel uncomfortable here.
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Old April 20th, 2007, 08:50 AM   #17
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i also highly enjoy steven`s work and thus why I tend to ask him alot of questions about his work. He is always fair and responsive in his answers, taking the question for what it is and not analyzing 'why' the question was asked. Thanks Steven, and this was the first of your posts I came across in the A1 forum so I responded to what I saw. Which is your most recent Letus video so I can see the difference.
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Old April 20th, 2007, 10:22 AM   #18
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Maybe I am expecting too much but even though these are the best looking Letus shots I have seen, I still find there is an overall softness that I dislike somewhat. The shallow depth of field is great but I still find the subject to look soft. Like this is an effect and not a sharp lens. Obviously Stephen has mad skills and it is not him. I just find that when I watch real 35mm shot footage the subjects are razor sharp (like HD from the raw A1 looks) but the background only is soft. All the footage I have seen from Letus looks like the subject is soft too somewhat. Maybe that is the cost of having this type of adapter.....but it bugs me for some reason.

Anyone else notice this? I guess we (at least me) are getting spoiled. I expect too much. I get used to seeing razor sharp amazing images from my H1/A1 that rival HD on the networks. However the DOF is video looking.

Then I see disjecta Letus footage which has all the DOF that we love, but I see a softer image now and it falls back from the broadcast/film look in a different category. Even the subject looks mildly soft. It just loses something for me. And I am "this" close to pulling the trigger and getting a Letus but I am just a bit apprehensive.

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Old April 20th, 2007, 10:47 AM   #19
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Interesting would be a side by side comparison of the same subject framed the same way with and without the Letus to compare sharpness.
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Old April 20th, 2007, 11:09 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik View Post
Maybe I am expecting too much but even though these are the best looking Letus shots I have seen, I still find there is an overall softness that I dislike somewhat. The shallow depth of field is great but I still find the subject to look soft. Like this is an effect and not a sharp lens. Obviously Stephen has mad skills and it is not him. I just find that when I watch real 35mm shot footage the subjects are razor sharp (like HD from the raw A1 looks) but the background only is soft. All the footage I have seen from Letus looks like the subject is soft too somewhat. Maybe that is the cost of having this type of adapter.....but it bugs me for some reason.

Anyone else notice this? I guess we (at least me) are getting spoiled. I expect too much. I get used to seeing razor sharp amazing images from my H1/A1 that rival HD on the networks. However the DOF is video looking.

Then I see disjecta Letus footage which has all the DOF that we love, but I see a softer image now and it falls back from the broadcast/film look in a different category. Even the subject looks mildly soft. It just loses something for me. And I am "this" close to pulling the trigger and getting a Letus but I am just a bit apprehensive.

Peace!
Marty, I have to say that I am flabbergasted by your post. I have watched this footage at close range on a 50" monitor and it is as sharp as any HD broadcast movie or drama I have seen. You'll have to forgive me saying that what you want seems to be impossible. This is way sharper than the mini35 is capable of and it's as good and in some cases much better than any footage I've seen from other adapters.

If the footage I am showing you here is not sharp enough for you, you should seriously consider just shooting 35mm film. Also keep in mind that there is an inherent softness in film anyway. Sure, some stocks are razor sharp but the classic film stocks do have that softness. A lot of it has to do with the actual physical make up of celluloid.

Sometimes I see 24p footage shot with a Cine Alta or the like and it looks so sharp, it actually makes me more aware of the video origins of the image.

This is all a matter of taste and preference of course but I still think, given the images we are creating today, that we should be blown away by what we can do with these tools instead of trying to match every single 35mm dot to video pixels.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that another consideration is that this has been downrezzed to 1280x720 and it is softer than my original so also take that into account when you are looking at this stuff.

Below is a still from the original frame size. I printed this out as a photograph and it was as sharp as any photo I have.
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More Letus Footage-taraletus.jpg  
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Last edited by Steven Dempsey; April 20th, 2007 at 11:46 AM.
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Old April 20th, 2007, 11:23 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Gentry View Post
Interesting would be a side by side comparison of the same subject framed the same way with and without the Letus to compare sharpness.
Why would you want to do this? It's common knowledge that 35mm adapters lose some degree of sharpness so comparing to see just how much....not sure what the point of that would be.

These adapters create an image that is filmic and can resolve images with greater or equal resolution to that of the HVX200's stock lens.

I don't know, maybe I'm just cranky this morning but I get upset when I see people obsessing so much over such minute little details.

I'm not trying to offend anyone here, I know we all have our own point of view but....oh well, never mind :)
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Old April 20th, 2007, 12:10 PM   #22
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I agree with steven, my problem with HD is that its too sharp. I like the softness these adapters bring, it really does make it more like film. If you've used plugins like Magic Bullet, which are used to make video more film-like, one of the things it does is softens the image. Film is natrually softer. Now slap any 35mm HD footage on a television and its just as sharp as any 35mm movie.
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Old April 20th, 2007, 12:18 PM   #23
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Marty:

Having made a few attempts at working with adapters, I am impressed with these images. They are beautiful and have that Dempsey touch and feel that we have grown accustomed to. Certainly, if you compared to some of the straight HD that we have seen from him, it is, because of the adapter, a bit softer looking. But we shouldn't confuse the fact that more of the image in frame is out of focus, necessarily, with softness. I think at the critical focus areas, these shots demonstrate a pretty sharp image.

I think you are right that when we shoot in High Definition video, we get used to expecting sharper images throught a wider field range due to the inherent greater depth of field. Maybe that is the future of film. But these adapters were made to get back to the shallower depth that is more film like as we know it.

Last movie I saw at the theaters was Rocky Balboa. Of course this is all subjective, but sharpness of the image wasn't what impressed me about this movie. The film had a lot of grain, and was shot in a high contrast settings, with a lot of depth of field "tricks". The fight scenes were a bit different, but the point is, when you are looking at a film, sharpness of the image is not usually number one on the list.

My question about the Letus/A1 combo is can it be extended into the the more extreme lighting situations and stylized filming, and maintain nice image we are seeing from Stevens projects. I'm betting that it can be done, and frankly has been done already. I'm looking forward to what Steven does to extend those techniques !
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Old April 20th, 2007, 12:23 PM   #24
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Yeah, pop over to DVXUser and find a film called "Katrina" shot with, I think, the SGPro and you will see what these things are capable of with controlled lighting.
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Old April 20th, 2007, 12:37 PM   #25
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OK! Please chill out! I didn't mean this in any type of offensive way. I came to this conclusion last night when flipping channels and I saw several clips on network dramas that are shot either in hi def or on film. Either way what I saw was consistent.

Main actors in the shot looked razor sharp/crystal clear.....stunning imagery. No harsh video look or electronic shrapening but great sharp film-like image. Background behind him was out of focus to the max. It looked amazing. I have shot a lot with the H1 and the A1 to a lesser extent and I have come to know that with the stock lenses they can achieve a very similar image as far as clarity goes. They just lack that awsome DOF that we all love.

Then I thought about the video you posted. They look really great but I still think they fall short of network broadcasted drama quality in the area of perceived sharpness. There is just no way a $3500 HDV camera pointing at a piece of spinning ground glass ($900??) is going to get as good a result as a Panavision system shooting on 35mm or a Sony Cinealta f950. It is close but there has to be a tradeoff.

Alas.....I stated a couple times that I am probably expecting too much from this setup. Do I think it looks more filmic and more like it was shot with a real lens? Absolutely. Do I think it looks less sharp than the stock lens? Yes I do. Do I think the Stock lens looks as sharp as a Varicam/Cinealte class camera? No I don't. Therefore the stock lens + extra glass does not equal any more clarity than stock lens.

Either way, I apologize if I did offend. I just hear everyone raving about how it is the sharpest looking "35mm adapter footage out there" yet I still find it a little soft. Yes it is better than most of what I have seen. But I was hoping for a little more, which is really, really not realistic.
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Old April 20th, 2007, 12:41 PM   #26
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No offense taken and a little context does the world of good :)
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Old April 20th, 2007, 12:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
My apologies for this impropriety. I took this to be discussion of the benefits of the letus, not a show your work thread....my apologies. .. It won't happen again.
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Originally Posted by Steven Dempsey View Post
Having said that, your opinion is always welcome. We are not in the business of making anyone feel uncomfortable here.
I surely meant no harm ! I too am sorry if it came across as brash. = /

-

Back on topic =

I find the subject of sharpness becoming more and more moot and am convinced some people actually look for it. Complaints about grain/noise or it's too soft or that it is to sharp !

This footage is awesome looking and any sharper and I'd start to not like it probably as Steven says, it would somehow remind me of the videoyimage.

I'd like to see some of the same shots using a harder light source (Light and Dark)
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Old April 20th, 2007, 12:50 PM   #28
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No offense taken and a little context does the world of good :)
I just watched the footage again. And I have to ask... Is it possible that your DOF is too shallow? What I mean is it seems that some shots look really sharp, and others a little soft.....and the ones that are sharp falloff fast. For example your daughter's face is in focus but her ears and hair are going soft as it falls out of the focal area. This is a nice look but it seems more specialized...like you would use it to convey an extreme emotional moment. What I am wondering is if you can expand the DOF more on some of these shots so that everything on your daughter is in focus clearly and still maintain that Bokeh in the background?

Also.....I think I stated that I was considering a letus but for my H1 but I do not want to deal with the .9x multiplier. Will the Letus flip enhanced like you have work on the H1 stock lens? I don't see why it wouldn't but I figured I'd ask. I realize it will be long and gawky but from a mechanical and optical POV it should function.

Thanks!
Marty
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Old April 20th, 2007, 12:50 PM   #29
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It's just the fightin' Irish in you, John. :)

I'll eventually do something with controlled lighting. I'll post when I do.
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Old April 20th, 2007, 12:53 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik View Post

Also.....I think I stated that I was considering a letus but for my H1 but I do not want to deal with the .9x multiplier. Will the Letus flip enhanced like you have work on the H1 stock lens? I don't see why it wouldn't but I figured I'd ask. I realize it will be long and gawky but from a mechanical and optical POV it should function.
I believe it would fit on the H1 lens, you should confirm that with Quyen though.
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