Does this annoy anyone else?

I'm fed up of watching "supposed" horror films that to be honest are about as scary as ........ I dunno but something really not scary!

I just have real issues with this, definitely a bug bear with me! If I'm watching a horror movie I want to be scared, not just a quick shock now and again, I mean scared. Terrified damn it!

Now having grown up on horror movies thanks to my Dad, I understand I'm probably a little desensitized to it all. So genuinely terrifying me may take a bit of work, but I can still take a movie at face value and almost be able to tell would it scare me if I weren't a horror movie lover, so I'm not looking for the holy grail here.

The reason I'm going off on a rant like this is because myself and a few work colleagues were discussing horror movies earlier and someone actually said this:

"Yeah, Scream was really scary!" THERE WAS NO SARCASM IN THERE VOICE.

I nearly choked on my digestive biscuit. Scream was a comedy wasn't it? (Genuine question)

I know we've had the whole "best horror movie" thread. But I want to ask this, and I'll do it in another thread if nobody minds, what makes a horror movie scary?

Simple question I guess.

In your opinion what makes a movie scary?

Now I've sait it's a simple question I'm having to think to answer it myself. I think for me it's the concept of power and the unknown. Now I understand that human nature dictates, we fear that which we do not understand, but to be fair I don't think that's necessarily true. I think we're more fascinated by things we don't understand. Which in itself maybe the reason people have trouble taking their eyes of the screen during a good horror movie, it's scaring them but at the same time forcing them to keep watching.

I also think that deeper concepts are what make films truly scary. For example "The Exorcist". Now desipte all the continuity errors in the storylines of the sequels, the priests were dealing with a demon/devil, and according to most well known scriptures etc these things are immortal, so right from the begining "How were the priests ever going to win?" I think that's what made this film scary for me, there was this lower level fear of moving the goal posts. In the fact that the antagonist was playing with them. It, as an entity in it's own right, was never in danger, it was simply a malevolant being that wanted to cause others pain. And to me that was scary.

Then look at the Changeling. For me this was a typical haunted house movie with a relatively run of the mill script. However, it had three things that made it scary in my opinion. Fantastic acting and it avoided over the top cliches and the timing was excellent.

Any one else have other ideas?

Hitchcock: "There is no terror in a bang, only in the anticipation of it."

What makes a horror movie truly frightening is the terror of the unknown. If the audience doesn't see the villian, or can't grasp the true extent of the villian's devious capabilities (and knows it!) then the film becomes terrifying.

Good question. Like a lot of things, its pretty subjective. We all bring our own preferences to an entertainment and therefore interpet it our own way.

Supernatural movies do absolutely nothing for me in terms of scariness. I just don't believe in any of that so I'm not able to "suspend my disbelief" enough to get into the concept. Don't get me wrong, you can make a good movie based on these precepts (I loved the Exorcist and the original Poltergeist for instance) but they don't scare me. I really enjoyed Sixth Sense and found it quite moving but again, not scary, cause I just can't swallow the whole ghost thing.

The other popular form of horror movies these days are the slasher/torture/killer things ... these just leave me totally cold. Besides the fact that most of them are just terribly made, they don't work for me cause I can't invest in any of the characters; the villians are just shells with hatchets and the "victims" are simply chattel. I think I'm too old for the "how many naked teenies can we kill in 90 minutes scenerio" anyway.

Suspense works for me; building up to something. In a lot of horror movies there is no suspense cause they seem created from a blueprint, you know what's coming next.

The original In Cold Blood was incredibly suspeneseful ... I don't think it scared me but it definitely affected me. Same with Wait Until Dark with Audrey Hepburn; its a little corny now but it definitely had me on the edge of my seat. The Birds is the only other movie that had me close to pillow biting form; maybe because it was totally unpredictable and because, although it was entirely fantastical, was based on things we could relate to. Silence of the Lambs was another good one; the victim, the girl in the well, could have been developed better but the actress did a good job of building her character and Starling was so well developed we cared about her. The later movies (and books) where Hannibal becomes the main character leaves me cold; how can I care about a cannibal serial killer?

So, there you go, the things that need to be present for something to "scare" me:

Characters that I can invest in; I have to care about somebody to care if they get killed or not.

The movie has to enough of a realistic base I can suspend my disbelief enough to enjoy the story.

Both very valid points.

Victor what do you mean by a base in reality? Do you mean the character should seem like real people, or that the story must be believable in reality?

Dave this is a good question, i'll be following this thread to see what people say.

This is so bizzare ,What you've said about what scares you personally is uncannally like shadow land, if you notice in my thread i said its about a group of guys trying to "survive" the night not "kill" whatever it is, i never told you but whatever is after them is unkillable and its not going to be some snarling drooling beast its going to be calm and collected in the way it kills them and like you i find that concept of power very scary.

Wish i could tell you more cause the story has an interesting concept behind it.

Andy.

Dave this is a good question, i'll be following this thread to see what people say.

This is so bizzare ,What you've said about what scares you personally is uncannally like shadow land, if you notice in my thread i said its about a group of guys trying to "survive" the night not "kill" whatever it is, i never told you but whatever is after them is unkillable and its not going to be some snarling drooling beast its going to be calm and collected in the way it kills them and like you i find that concept of power very scary.

Wish i could tell you more cause the story has an interesting concept behind it.

Andy.

With regards to "Shadow Land" I was wondering what the "bad guy" was going to be. I think what would make it scary for me, would be if the 'creature' was almost omnipotent. So the guns they're carrying are simply comfort blankets and are useless, the idea of being able to kill the bad guy with a well placed round to the swede really takes away any concept of power from the bad guy. I like the idea you've had of making the baddie cool and calm. I find that the whole "animal/beast" antagonist jumping around like a loon more annoying than anything. If the antagonist is that powerful then why waste energy running around like an idiot? Simply stalk the prey and destroy it. Job done.

I really want to see more of Shadow Land! Hurry up! ;-)

Again going back to the Exorcist I thought of something else I really liked about the antagonist. No over the top action, simply an entity that was waiting to observe human reaction to its presence. It never seemed to make the first move almost, (i know it did technically) it was just unashamedly there, and that, to me, showed power. Almost arrogance in the fact it didn't try to hide or kill everyone it came into contact with, because it was never in any danger, but everyone else was. And THAT was scary.

I have trouble wording what I'm trying to say but I think you get what I mean.

"There is no terror in the bang, only in the anticipation of it."

-- Alfred Hitchcock

Hey Dave, if your fed up with supposed horror... This might help creep you out.

Remember when you were out with your XL1 and you thought someone was watching you, but you blew it off.
And then as you were walking back, you could swear that that couple was following you?

You were being watched, and they were following you!

And remember when you were looking up info about the Silfra crack,
and you got that chill, like someone was spying on you?

They were watching you!

And guess what... As you are reading this.... Do Not Look Behind You To See Who Is There NOW!

Hope that helped!

Hey Dave, if your fed up with supposed horror... This might help creep you out.

Remember when you were out with your XL1 and you thought someone was watching you, but you blew it off.
And then as you were walking back, you could swear that that couple was following you?

You were being watched, and they were following you!

And remember when you were looking up info about the Silfra crack,
and you got that chill, like someone was spying on you?

They were watching you!

And guess what... As you are reading this.... Do Not Look Behind You To See Who Is There NOW!

I think that is exactly what I'm after, throw someone off guard and then take advantage of that. Making a shiver run down someones spine! And I think the extent of the terror is simply how long that shiver lasts!

Hmmm much to think about. As I'm sure everyone has guessed my next project is gonna be a short horror movie.

I really want to see more of Shadow Land! Hurry up! ;-)

Lol at least there's one guy that'll rent if it gets made!

I would consider A straight to dvd release i great triumph. unfortuanately i have to fear the worst that we don't get funding and it gets shelved, which of course won't stop us giving it our full effort.

Andy.

Music and Sound. All the really scary scenes ever made have the anticipation added to with a soundtrack that builds up the suspense.

Dave, by "based in reality" I mean a couple of things:

Sure, the characters need to have some behaviours I can relate to .... feeling creeped out while walking outside in the dark, with nowhere to run to and nowhere to hide, that seems natural and its happened to me when living in the bush. But darn it, when you know a madman is running round your 'hood carving people up ... don't hear the chainsaw in the basement then go running down there!

Mostly, though, I meant that anything supernatural is not to personally scare me cause I have absolutely no belief in that. I may find it interesting, like Exorcist, but it ain't scary. That's a personal thing for me; I can't suspend my disbelief enought with demons/vampires/werewolf/zombies et al. I can be entertained, but not scared.

Thats why I love The Birds so much. This has never happend, birds banding together to pick us off but two things worked: Everytime you see a bunch of birds on a phone line you think "Gee, what if they did?" and second, cause Hitchcock never explained why the birds went nuts, we can never disprove his premise.

I agree with you victor, there is nothing more annoying than a character in a horror doing something that you just wouldn't do in that situation. Take the ring for example which is one of the scariest films iv ever seen,i needed a half bottle o whiskey every night for a week after that. Its the idea of it that scared me and again its what Dave was saying about power....i mean how do you deal with a homicidal little kid thats all ready dead and crawls out your telly! you sure as hell don't go down a damn well looking for her.....man if anybody had crawled out my telly i would have packed my s##t and moved to alaska or the antarctic or someplace where there aint a tv within a thousand miles.

Keeping the characters doing what any sane person would do is essential i think, the fact that they're killed doing what you would do in that situation is more scary than some idiot hearing a chainsaw and going to see who's making all that noise.

Andy.

When the familiar and comfortable becomes dangerous or strange and threatening, that's what gets my attention.

For a good scary movie, check out the original 1963 black-and-white version of The Haunting (not the crappy recent remake). Now THAT'S a movie that can scare the pants off you. There are ZERO special effects shots. You see no ghosts or greebies in the dark. Everything is played out in the viewer's mind. Everything is shot and lit to give a feeling of unease, and it simply builds from there.

On a lighter note, there was a quote from some famous director (can't remember which) who said that the only difference between a comedy and a horror movie was the music. If you think about it, it's really true.

Regards;
Martin

I agree with you victor, there is nothing more annoying than a character in a horror doing something that you just wouldn't do in that situation. Take the ring for example which is one of the scariest films iv ever seen,i needed a half bottle o whiskey every night for a week after that. Its the idea of it that scared me and again its what Dave was saying about power....i mean how do you deal with a homicidal little kid thats all ready dead and crawls out your telly! you sure as hell don't go down a damn well looking for her.....man if anybody had crawled out my telly i would have packed my s##t and moved to alaska or the antarctic or someplace where there aint a tv within a thousand miles.

Keeping the characters doing what any sane person would do is essential i think, the fact that they're killed doing what you would do in that situation is more scary than some idiot hearing a chainsaw and going to see who's making all that noise.

Andy.

I agree, the Ring is one of the few films I've seen recently that did manage to creep me out. There were certain flaws in the movie but overall it did it's job. I still haven't seen the original yet but I really want to compare the differences. Another film I saw a while back that really did the trick was "The Eye". Very very creepy in places.

Also Andy what you mention is one of the only problems I had when watching the film "The Entity".
Ok so you're at home then an unseen force kicks the hell out of you and your family, so you leg it out to the car.
Ok going well so far, but then!
Oh my god! She decides to go back in the house.............WHAT?!
I'd be half way to Mexico at that point! Still a great horror movie though, you just gotta pretend the protagonist is a bit thick.
I also thought it had one of the best endings ever! "Welcome...." You get the idea.

Anyway.

So far we have this lot:

Anticipation of horror.
Realism in the horror.
Realism in the characters actions and reactions.
Unnerving lighting and camera angles.
Sound effects and score to reinforce the horror.
Take what is mundane and normal and make it abnormal and dangerous.
Remove the protagonists illusion of power and / or give the antagonist power.
Use every trick in the book to throw the viewer off guard, then go for the throat.

On a personal note I also think any horror depicted on screen as opposed to in the viewers head should be brutal. I don't mean gore, I mean it should be unnerving enough that people have trouble looking at the screen. No holds barred kinda stuff, not necessarily graphic violence but there should be no mistaking for the viewer what is happening.

A good example of this, in my opinion, is below:

*WARNING! OLDBOY SPOILER BELOW*

**WARNING**

***SPOILERS FOR OLDBOY***

If you've seen OldBoy you will remember the scene where Oh Dae-Su cuts off his own tongue with the scissors. You don't seem him actually do it in shot but you know exactly what he is doing, and it was horrendous. I honestly had trouble not wincing during that shot.

I saw the Entity when I was about 11 years old. Scared me silly. Saw it again a couple years ago and it wasn't that scary, but still a good movie I thought. As for the whole thing about her going back in the house, remember that the entity followed her around. I thought that was at least better than it being confined to the house, cause it felt like she couldn't get away from it.

Edit: (Hah, everything was already mentioned. I'd better read the complete threads before posting.)

I have watched thousands of films. I like the horror genre and I have probably covered all the classics (about 2800 dvds in my collection for all genres). The only scene I ever found truly scary as an adult was from Ringu, the original version, the coming out of the tv scene. That was scary. Beautiful, slow, nice buildup, horror without a face, excellent. Worth watching the entire boring film just for that scene:)

Some other films of the genre I find annoying or disgusting but nothing is really scary. Filmmakers probably believe disgusting is scary. It's just damaging to the senses and the psyche IMHO. A kid does not have to see robocop getting cut to pieces by shotguns.

Things I find interesting and are sometimes used in the shock/horror genre without very good effects:

Horror that manages to connect with real life objects we have to live with. Simple and effective. Entire genre covers that. A film about a nice little everyday object that becomes the source of horror and looks identical to what you have your living room and especially your bedroom is scary. Teens love that. If you look at your video or tv screen or a mirror and think of a film, that was scary:)

The same in connection to persons this time. A sudden discovery of a transformation of our beloved to something else, will never fail to shock audiences. Body snatchers original version style. Relaxed settings help by providing contrast.

Horror or shock that uses the imagination. But not the keep the monster invisible till the final reel style. If you have watched Henry Portrait Of A Serial Killer, some crime scenes are rebuilt just by using sound while only showing the final consequence of the action. It's extremely powerful. Same thing on Angelopoulos Eternity And A Day, the rape scene of the little girl in the back of the track which is entirely off scene and silent due to the ambience of the city. Seriously powerful directing. It also follows the ideals of classical greek drama in the violence department.

Shock value due to real life depiction of a crime without a theatrical representation. This makes it real in our eyes. Henry, Portrait of a Serial killer also uses that to a great extend. It is powerful because it strips crime from its glorious sophistication and leaves just that, the cruelty. Cruelty that could live next door, not in a cave somewhere is outer space.

Sudden apearance of something. Overused but who didn't find shocking the face in the window while the lead actress is driving her car in the Carnival of Souls? Or the lead actor appearing in and out of a moving car in Dust Devil. Moving cars are beloved by screenwriters. It's supposed to be hard to creep in and out of one while it is moving so it will be shocking. It's beautiful and effective.

Shock with a relaxation period that leads to another shock. Nightmare, wake up scene, everything is ok, turn to the left, nightmare still there, you'd better wake up for real this time:)

The ultimate boogieman does not come with sharp razors for fingers. The best boogieman is IMHO related to the fear of dying and is depicted with great artistry in the 1968 BBC short tv film Whistle And I'll Come To You.

This post is long enough so I'd better stop here.

A kid does not have to see robocop getting cut to pieces by shotguns.

I understand your point but in the UK Robocop was an 18. I do agree that gratuitous violence on screen for the sake of violence is not good, but at the same time I think sugar coating violence is even worse.

I remeber lots of fascinated 10yo in the cinema, so it was probably not that strict in Greece. I don't have a problem with on screen violence, I just don't like it when it does not serve any real purpose in the story. A 47yo cut the hand of an 18yo at the wrist a few days ago somewhere is Greece using a sword. He had already served 10 years in prison for murdering a track driver, so I don't think on screen violence was related. The hand will probably be saved and fully functional but it still needs a lot of work. The 18yo had left his 14yo daugther pregnant and 100y ago the father would probably reach for the shotgun or the priest, are we back to swords now?

I understand your point but in the UK Robocop was an 18. I do agree that gratuitous violence on screen for the sake of violence is not good, but at the same time I think sugar coating violence is even worse.

Is violence nesessary at all to make a good horror movie?

It is possible to make a good one without violence on screen. But if you eliminate physical violence from the story, there will still be psychological violence or fear of physical violence. You have to base fear on something. You need imminent danger, a dangerous situation ready to burst. It could never burst though and still be a horrifying experience.

The tv scene in the Ring(not the US version which I havent seen) definitely lived up to reputation. I was squirming in my seat literally.

Beyond that, well, I cant think of much recently. The Woman in Black had a scary scene.
Jeepers Creepers had an unnerving start but lost it after you knew what the killer was. Unsolved mysteries can be a good thing.

The Exorcist and Jaws creeped me out when I was 3 and 5. The former doesnt scare me any more, though I might still get a bit nervous around dark water--the fear of the unknown lurking below. The poster for Jaws itself is unnerving.

The Shining creeped me out in parts, especially when she sees the guy in the bear suit--unexpected weirdness can be really creepy-disturbing (the end of Dont Look Now).

But with the right elements even a well worn vampire story can be scary. The 79 Salem's Lot had some scary vampires.
Music definitely helps a lot.

The design of Alien was so ..alien that I find it disturbing.

The premise of the Thing is pretty horrifying.

Anyone remember Night Gallery? Especially the segment with Roddy McDowell and the painting that keeps changing? Creep out.

Music and Sound. All the really scary scenes ever made have the anticipation added to with a soundtrack that builds up the suspense.

That's what I wanted to say as well. I think the ambient soundscape plus sound effects and music is even more important than the images. The last movie that really scared me to death was the Blair witch project. The images were mostly like mediocre home video, but the sound and ambience was perfectly professional. And you didn't see much except the protagonists. Just enough to scare you.

old thread but have to mention 'Paranormal Activity' wonderfully terrifying and low budget movie! loved it..

The scariest films don't show anything for as long as possible, the unknown is more scary than the known.

The trick is to understand the nature of Phobia, not Fear (they are different).

Fear is an instinctive internal reaction to something that may cause harm or death. Everybody experiences it, and it is usually JUSTIFIED, thus not REALLY scary (in the deep, disturbing sense)

Phobia is an UNREASONABLE fear of something common place. There is no legitimate justification for a phobia.

The BEST horror films exploit Phobia by taking an unreasonable fear (like fear of the dark - Nyctophobia) and CREATING reason for it.

Thats why Paranormal activity was so effing scary to so many (though not all): It took a VERY common phobia (hypnophobia) and put REASON behind it.

Subterraphobia, the fear of being underground, was exploited BEAUTIFULLY in the Serpent and the Rianbow when the main character was buried alive.


The Descent is another great example of that. They exploited the very common cluastrophobia. It's hard for me to watch that movie, as I can lean on the slightly cluastrophobic side of things.


My advice: Research the most common phobia (Claustrophobia, agoraphobia, aerophobia, Phagophobia, Archophobia, Apocalyptophobia, and Necrophobia) and what it is about them that creates the unresonable fear in people who suffer from them.

Ask yourself "What is it exactly that makes people afraid of small places? What is the experience like?"

Anybody who suffers from cluastrophobia can probably describe to you the intense clenching of the stomach, the warm wash of nervousness over the face, the cold sweaty plams, and the nervous kinetic enegery built up in their muscles they experience when they are in a small, dark place.

UNDERSTAND those feelings, and recreate them with camera and sound.

lets be honest basically its long silent pauses with a loud noise after it lol gets em every time

Andy

when the viewer is emotionally invested in a character, then even a fall down the stairs can be scary...