View Full Version : QuickStreamDV with XL1S


Mark A. Foley
February 6th, 2004, 07:54 AM
Anyone use the QucikStreamDV drive? I'm trying to decide the ROI (return on investment) with going to this type of hardware. I like the idea of no wear and tear on the on camera's recording heads and tape mechanism...plus major reduction in capture time to the NLE.

Downside would be a another point of failure in recording.

Tape is cheap and very reliable...hmmmm


Thoughts?

Jason Opat
February 11th, 2004, 03:21 PM
There are many way that the QuickStream DV can save you time and money. Log and Capture is the longest part of the editing process, meaning that for every minute of video you have to then spend that same amount of time or longer logging or capturing video.
The QuickStream DV allows you to now capture direct to the built in hard drive in DV format. With a tape in hte camera you can use the record button to remotely control the QuickStream DV. That means that every time you start and stop the record process the same video being captured to tape is also simultaneously captured to the QuickStream DV. There is a record button the QuickStream DV that allows you to record independantly to the drive if you wish to not use tape in the camera. You can capture up to six hours of video directly on the drive.
Your return on investment will be pretty noticable. Once you finish shooting the footage is viewable immediatly when you connect to a Powerbook in the field or you desktop system in your studio. The Stream Manager software that we have created helps you manage the data by viewing the clips, moving the clips, and or deleting unwanted clips. You don't have to use th software you can import the footage directly into your edting system and start working or copy the files over to your RAID system yourself.
I guess the best way to say it, is you are now able to be in a true nonlinear world. You are not dependant upon a tape and it's linear approach. to see teh end of a six hour record all you have to do is open the file and preview it immediately.
As you mentioned tape is a cheap. Think of tape as your inexpensive back up. The time saved really adds up when you think about the hours you keep your system tied up for digitizing purposes. YOu can always be using your system to edit not log and capturing.

Imran Zaidi
February 11th, 2004, 03:26 PM
Jarred Land over at http://www.dvxuser.com has a good review on the QuickstreamDV.

For me, I'm chomping at the bit to be able to lay down the change for this product; it would so pay for itself in the long run. That and the peace of mind that you're instantly recording to two places, so no fear of tape heads or failed drives. Plus I really, really hate the capture part of editing, so it would be worth the cost just to never have to do that again.

Mark Williams
February 11th, 2004, 04:17 PM
Take a look at this thread http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21200

You need to make sure the file format that you are capturing in on the Quickstream is compatible with your NLE system. For me I never got an answer from MCE, thus I am looking elsewhere.

Regards,

Mark

Jason Opat
February 11th, 2004, 06:16 PM
The QuickStream DV is progammable to
QuickTime MOV (.mov), Windows AVI2 (.avi), Raw DV (.dv), and Canopus AVI2(.avi).

If you editing system is compatible with this file format it will work. Here are a few Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premiere, Final Cut Express, iMovie, Quicktime Pro, Sonic foundry Vegas Video, Canopus DV Storm, Pinnacle Studio to name a few. If your system captures DV footage Via Firewire it would be safe to say any of the above formats will work in your system as long as they are DV based.

Mark Williams
February 11th, 2004, 09:16 PM
Nope. It is my understanding that none of these file formats are directly compatible with Matrox without first running the Matrox file conversion program. Kind of defeats the purpose to have to go thru one more step. Also, is it confirmed that there is no loss of quality in the file conversion process? Of course this would not even be a concern if the Quickstream used the Matrox codec as one of the file capture formats. For one reason or another I guess the Canopus avi format was selected instead. Oh well, maybe it will eventually be included by MCE or maybe by someone else.

Regards,

Mark

Kevin Kimmell
March 10th, 2004, 03:04 PM
I know this isn't directly related to the original post, but can anyone who has used the QuickStream with an XL1s or GL1 or GL2 offer any device pecific comments about it?

I've got a GL2 and am considering buying the 4.5 hour version.

Thanks,
Kevin

Jason Opat
March 10th, 2004, 03:20 PM
I have been using the Canon XL1S for the last year with the QuickStream DV. The QuickStream DV works with any DV camera that provides DV out of the built in FireWire port.

In using it with the XL1S just remember to turn off the DV Control function in the cameras built in menu.

Kevin Kimmell
March 10th, 2004, 07:35 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Jason Opat :
In using it with the XL1S just remember to turn off the DV Control function in the cameras built in menu. -->>>

I'm planning on using it with my GL2 and my partner's GL1. I've never turned the DV Control function on so it shouldn't be an issue.

Are you able to sync the recording to the record/pause button on the XL1s or do you have to use the record on the QuickStream?

Thanks,
Kevin

Jason Opat
March 10th, 2004, 10:15 PM
When you activate the record button on the camera it simultaneously starts the record process on the QuickStream DV. The QuickStream DV has its own record button as well, but it does respond to the standard 1394AV signal that triggers the record start and stop functions.

Kevin Kimmell
March 11th, 2004, 11:44 AM
Okay... so you're verifying that the GL2 will also trigger the record function. Now for the more important question...

What if I'm recording to tape also as a backup, and I get to the point where I need to swap tapes but want the Quickstream to continue recording (I record live performances) ?

Is this even possible or will I need to completely disregaurd the tapes to ensure no loss?

Also, since this is based on FAT32 for MAC compatibility, what happens at the 2gb limit? Does it start a new clip on it's own without loss?

Thanks,
Kevin

Jason Opat
March 11th, 2004, 12:10 PM
Yes of course the GL2 will trigger the record function. The only way for the camera record button to work is that a tape has to be in the carriage. If not it will jsut flash and give you a message to insert tape. Every time you start and stop the record button on the camera a new clip or file is created with timecode data and date information from the camera itself.

The FAT32 file structure is actually MSDOS based and it is the only file format that is cross compatible between Mac and PC systems.

The QuickStream DV overcomes the 2 gig file limitation by automatically rolling over to a new file. There is no loss in data as the QuickStream DV has the technology built into its own capture hardware to compensate and create sequential files.

For continuous recording of a long meeting you will have to use the record function on the QuickStream DV's record button. If you hit the record button on the camera to stop the tape it will stop the QuickStream DV as well. the signal sent bay all cameras is a blind and its function is to start and stop. there is no way to make it run independantly. Secondly the trigger only sends the signal if there is a tape in the camera.

The limitations of the external record are not with the QuickStream DV but rather with th cameras as the cameras were created to record to their own tape system.

To tape longer meetings with tape as a back up I jsut time the tape change so that the the QuickStream is still recording during the change.

You will have to stop the camera record and then quickly hit the record button on the QuickStream DV. Second change the tape. Now, remember when you go to hit record on the camera to start teh new tape it will stop the record funtion on the QuickStream DV. Once you are certain the tape is recording jsut reach up and hit ht record button on the Quickstream. The time codes will match. the clip will be isolated and time stamped that was created during the the tape change. However, it will not have timecode as none was being generated when you were not recording to tape.

With our Stream Manager you can quickly find those clips and back them up to tape if need be as they would be the only data not on tape, if you feel the need to have all data backed up.

I have successfully recorded many 2 hour shows this way with no issues. It is a little bit of a learning curve to integrate the QuickStream DV into your workload, but once you understand its easy process the time it saves you, especially on long format shows, is tremendous.

Kevin Kimmell
March 11th, 2004, 12:15 PM
Well then... if suggestions are accepted I would say that whatever mini-os you guys are running on the Quickstream device should implement a record override function in the future.

Perhaps something that says if I manually press record on the device, ignore the firewire DV signals.

Are the Quickstreams updatable (like flahing the mini-os) in any way?

Thanks for all of the info,
Kevin

Kevin Lawson
March 11th, 2004, 12:47 PM
I'd like to second that. I sounds like there will end up being a gap on disk, unless the drive records beyond when you hit the record button on the camera.

The timeline:

Hit record on camera (Tape and disk start recording)
At end of tape, hit record to stop tape (Tape and disk stop recording)
REALLY quick hit record on disk (Disk starts back up again, after however long it was between button pushes.)
Place new tape in camera
Hit record on camera (Starts tape, and STOPS disk.)
REALLY quick hit record on disk (Disk starts back up again, after however long it was between button pushes.)
Client flips out when sees a gap in the CEOs big speech
Client DOESN'T pay bill, OR hire you again.
Bank reposses house and business.
Videographer sleeps on park bench... glad that this happened coming into spring-time. ;>

Having been in the presentation business for 20 years, and video-taping meetings that whole time, I can say that NO client will accept a gap in thier tape. I'll have to hold off buying one of these babies until that 'FEATURE' is fixed.

Please send me an email when that's true. Thanx!

Jason Opat
March 11th, 2004, 01:08 PM
No matter what there is still a gap in the tape when you have to change them. You are obviously covering this so called "gap" currently. All you have to do is continue shooting the way you currently do. You can also record the whole thing nonstop without a tape in the camera and back it up to a VTR via composite signal if needed. I am not sure of your reasoning as you have to compensate for the tape change now in your current shooting environment.

A CEO or any speaker for that matter does not speak to a group for more than an hour at a time without some sort of a break. If you are recording an event of such high profile nature than you are geared up for the tape change going in. All you are doing is putting the QuickStream DV into your current work load. I currently tape seminars and always have two cameras to give me a cover shot for any unexpected issues. Afterall as you indicated the customer wants not excuses for gaps in their speech. The difference most likely on the second camera will be the change in audio. your wireless microphone will be running to one camera and the second cover camera will have shot gun or the PM mic. Different sounding audio is still better than missing it all together.

Especially for long format recording the time saving s is not having to log and capture all that footage. You can take a PowerBook to location, if you want, and review all 6 hours of footage in minutes. You can't be that instantaneous with tape.

Kevin Kimmell
March 11th, 2004, 01:55 PM
Okay... so then you're saying that the suggestion wont be put into and "MCE comment box"?

The whole idea of solid state recording is to be better than taped recording. I'm only suggesting that this would be an even better addition to an already excellent product. Using tape as a backup would simply be to keep me in a comfort level until I'm sure that it's no longer necessary.

Thanks,
Kevin

Jason Opat
March 11th, 2004, 02:14 PM
Of coarse we will take your suggestion. It can only improve product if it helps the videographer in the field.

Kevin Kimmell
March 11th, 2004, 02:21 PM
So are there every and updates to the mini-os or whatever it is that rund the recording functionality on the device?

I'm asking because I'm simply wondering if future updates to the product can eventually be added to one that I buy now?

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin Lawson
March 11th, 2004, 03:08 PM
"... I am not sure of your reasoning as you have to compensate for the tape change now in your current shooting environment."

That's true, I do compensate for that by having a 2nd record deck, but the whole idea was to simplify my life with better products. Your mentioning being able to do overlap recording, when the situation you describe doesn't.

"A CEO or any speaker for that matter does not speak to a group for more than an hour at a time without some sort of a break."

You haven't been to alot of those, have you? :> I have had sessions where the presentations don't break for over 3 huors! Of course the client assumes that the audience will come and go, yet the CEOs are all still on the stage taking turns impressing each other. ;>

"...Different sounding audio is still better than missing it all together."

I always use a feed from the house audio person, (usually working with me anyway,) and have a back-up wireless receiver to each camera set to the same transmitter frequency and that way I don't have a change in my audio.

"Especially for long format recording the time savings is not having to log and capture all that footage."

I agree whole-heartedly. That's why I like the idea of have a chioce to have the disk follow the camera, or not. That's my whole point.

Hope I haven't ruffled too many feathers with my thoughts and my humor! :>

Jason Opat
March 11th, 2004, 06:20 PM
Another example I have actually used the QuickStream DV on was a 4 camera shoot with a switcher and separate audio mixer. I switched the video in analogue on a MX50 and took a mixed feed from the house sound as well as wireless micorophones and mixed them down. This was all Recorded to my Panasonic DV deck using 184 minute DV tapes in the deck and simultaneously to the QuickStream DV Granted via the FireWire port out. Granted it was analogue video mixed down to DV but it was effective for a live shoot.

I then brought back the premixed show connected it to my system and imported the files directly to Final Cut Pro. Created titles, edited more of the video and then exported directly to Compressor. Imported the MPEG2 file into DVD Studio Pro and authored the DVD.

This show in the past was shot on BetaCam SP and then in later years on DV took weeks to produce. Using the QuickStream DV eliminated the long log and capture process and it also kept from actually taking up additional drive space on my system. In this instance my final product was on DVD and the edited footage was dumped back out via FireWire to my DV Deck on DV Tape for safe keeping. This process took only an afternoon to complete the program. Huge time savings using the QuickStream DV to capture to and work from.

Kevin Kimmell
March 11th, 2004, 09:08 PM
So are there every and updates to the mini-os or whatever it is that runs the recording functionality on the device?

I'm asking because I'm simply wondering if future updates to the product can eventually be added to one that I buy now?

Thanks,
Kevin

Daniel Kohl
March 12th, 2004, 03:53 AM
Hi Kevin,

I donít really want to but in.

But I think that it may be a bit unfair to expect a product like the Quickstream to be OS updateable. My XL 1 isnít updateable, and it cost more than 4x what the Quickstream costs. The cost of the Quicksream would definitely be much higher if it has/ or had an interface for software updates. I would personally rather have a Quickstream that is non-updateable and costs $200 less.

If you are looking for a capture system that has an updateable OS, then take a look at the Focus Firestore. It has a few more features, than the Quickstream, but costs a lot more.

Just my 2 cents.

Kevin Kimmell
March 12th, 2004, 07:21 AM
I understand you argument but don't agree. I hope I'm not stepping out of line by simply asking if it's a possibility. The gentleman seemed to be very helpful in answering all of my other questions.

Thanks,
Kevin

Daniel Kohl
March 12th, 2004, 02:14 PM
My post wasnít meant as a criticism, sorry if it sounded like that. You should definitely ask, and Jason should give you a strait answer. I just wanted to give my take, on the subject.

I was thinking about the issue of updating, after I wrote the above post anyway, and it occurred to me, that the Quickstream doesnít accommodate all NLE formats, most noticeably, that of AVID.

-Jason, will it be possible to add DV wrappers to a Quickstream purchased now, in the future as they become available? Is MCE planning to increase the number of DV wrappers for the Quickstream in the future?

Kevin Kimmell
March 15th, 2004, 09:14 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Kimmell : So are there every and updates to the mini-os or whatever it is that runs the recording functionality on the device?

I'm asking because I'm simply wondering if future updates to the product can eventually be added to one that I buy now? -->>>

Is there an answer to this question?

Valeriu Campan
May 19th, 2004, 07:12 AM
I sort of don't get it.
Apart from saving A LOT of time in post, why should one use it?
The argument of no tear and wear of the tape mechanism is not standing. My XL1 goes in "stand by-sleep mode" pretty soon after a period of non activity of the tape mechanism. So in order to record direct to disk I HAVE to start and stop the camera with a tape inserted. The Sony PD150 seems to stay active for hours, so I can see a possibility of recording direct to disk without the tape running. Is there a solution to make the XL1 stay alive for a long time?

Matt Harvey
May 19th, 2004, 09:48 AM
<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Kohl : Hi Kevin,

I donít really want to but in.

But I think that it may be a bit unfair to expect a product like the Quickstream to be OS updateable. My XL 1 isnít updateable, and it cost more than 4x what the Quickstream costs. The cost of the Quicksream would definitely be much higher if it has/ or had an interface for software updates. I would personally rather have a Quickstream that is non-updateable and costs $200 less.

If you are looking for a capture system that has an updateable OS, then take a look at the Focus Firestore. It has a few more features, than the Quickstream, but costs a lot more.

Just my 2 cents. -->>>

um, I have a £100 wirless mp3 player that is firmware upgradable, so there is no real excuse for not making this the same.

Cheers

Matt

Rob Lohman
May 19th, 2004, 05:10 PM
The XL1 is indeed not a very good match with such technology
if you want to record without tape. But the XL1S does not have
the same problem.

Wear and tear is a factor since not everybody has a DV deck
and thus you at least spare a capture run out. And if you don't
record to disk (although I would want to do that for backup /
storage anyway if I can) that is another save.

The main reasons to go with such a device in my opinion:

1) no capture time wasted

2) ability to record longer then 1 hour at one time (handy for event shooting)

3) availability to preview footage on set without worrying of overwriting the tape (if you have a recording device with analog out)

I just noticed that the shutdown issue has been answered
with a solution in your other thread (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26211)