Hey Chris--

Are you spinning off all the HD fora, renaming the whole site, or just sprucing up everything? Curious minds want to know...

Just the consumer-oriented fora.

See HD Mom: About (http://hdmom.com/about)

DV Info Net: professional
HD Mom: consumer

An active and valid DVi account registered prior to 25 May 2009
can be used to log in to www.hdmom.com -- hope this helps,

Yeah, I probably should have read that first; all is explained very well there. I was actually reading it as you were responding, and tried to edit the original to reflect that, but as usual you're too fast for me.

Site looks great. Just what I need: another place to drop by six times a day...

Thanks! Heh. I tried to make it easy by importing all the pre-existing DVi user accounts.

I think this is a very bad idea. You are going to loose a lot of regulars who just cannot be bothered to go to different forums, the name is very bad too.

Well, the name is one thing -- it's certainly easy enough to remember, and ultimately it's changeable.

There's a large percentage of our regulars who *do* post on other sites though, and I made it easy for them by keeping all of the login info intact. I think those of our regulars who have an interest in the consumer side of things will click through.

Basically, in my opinion, the consumer market has never been adequately served (and to be honest, I never really cared all that much about it until it started to get interesting with the advent of affordable HD camcorders). There was nothing on the Web that was "like DV Info" for the consumer market, so I figured it was time to start one.

We've done well with our consumer-related fora here at DVi, but the real-names restriction, which is an absolute must for pro-oriented discussions, can be a bit of a hindrance for the average Jane or Joe who just wants to know how to operate the camcorder they just bought at the local electronics chain store. That's who the target audience is. It'll be similar to DVi in many respects, but at the same time it'll be different in other ways for certain key aspects -- which is something that's very hard to do under one roof.

It's not so much about splitting DV Info (we're talking less than 50,000 posts out of a database of over 1 million, so it's not like we're losing all that much) -- it's all about gaining new ground. We're going to do for the consumer market what we've done for the pro market, and that is to create the best space on the web for learning about this technology.

It's an interesting idea, Chris, but I think it's going to get harder and harder for you to decide what's "Pro" and what's "Consumer" as time goes by. The line between "consumer," "prosumer," and "professional" has been hazy for a while, and I wouldn't be surprised if that distinction breaks down completely within the next few years.

For example:
- a small, interchangeable lens camera with a sensor larger than S35 and manual controls that sends uncompressed video out an HDMI or HD-SDI pipe;
- a full-size shoulder-mount camera with full auto and 1/3" chips that records in AVCHD onto SD cards and costs less than $3,000

How would you classify these?

If Phil Bloom gets paid to use a Lumix GH1 on his next shoot, doesn't that make it a "professional" camera?

Good points, Brian -- I set the cutoff at around $2000 though.

The delineation between "consumer" vs. "professional" has always been in how it's used. So sure, there's folks that will use a GH1 to make money, and there are dentists and lawyers that have XL2s that have never shot beyond their back yard. I had to think hard about the Sony HD1000, since it really is one of only two full-size shoulder mount camcorders costing less than $2000 (the other one is the Panasonic HMC70). The Panasonic stays here since it's in the AVCCAM line, most of which costs more than $2K. To some degree there will be some overlap, sure.

We'll always keep the SDI outputs right here on DVi, but there's also been a growing market that shops for HD palmcorders at Best Buy or wherever, and I wanted to give them an online discussion place to go as well.

I'm not against the principle, but the name doesn't really travel well, particularly in the UK and other English-speaking regions. The word "mom" makes it very seem American to me, it's not as neutral as "DVinfo". "Mom" always grates for me in films, just as "mammy" probably puzzles people not from Ireland! (HD ma, anyone?).

Just a thought.

Overall, I do think the concept is good though - there's only so big a business or a forum can get before it becomes unwieldy and splitting it into separate products/brands is a good thing.

I appreciate the insight, Mike -- I was looking for a family-friendly name, and have to admit that I didn't put much consideration into the international aspect of it (like I said, everything is changeable though). It's a five-letter domain name, and that was the primary appeal for me. You're right, it had to be split, and the time was right to do that. Our forum index page was getting very long, and I didn't want to hide things behind tabs or drill-downs. Plus, it'll have a slightly different character than DVi -- though just as friendly to be sure.

I appreciate the insight, Mike -- I was looking for a family-friendly name, and have to admit that I didn't put much consideration into the international aspect of it (like I said, everything is changeable though). It's a five-letter domain name, and that was the primary appeal for me. You're right, it had to be split, and the time was right to do that. Our forum index page was getting very long, and I didn't want to hide things behind tabs or drill-downs. Plus, it'll have a slightly different character than DVi -- though just as friendly to be sure.

Chris I think the site's a great idea but I have to second what Mike said. There are a lot of US spellings / pronunciations that I rather like (and some, like 'z' usage I prefer); but mum/mom is such a personal, homely word, for those who don't pronunce it 'mom' it's hard to identify with.

I taught English in Asia for a couple of years using US text books and every time I came across the word "mom" I struggled with it... it was so alien to me. It could well be that Mike and I are in a tiny minority, but it's definitely worth a thought.

Other words like 'color/colour' for instance, are neither here nor there - they don't have such intimate resonance, and besides that pronunciation is not affected. I'm sure a lot of people will find this sentiment ridiculous, but at least for me mom/mum have a very different sense to them.

I agree that perhaps the consumer market needs to better served. But would it be possible to start a whole new forum aimed at "Hockey Moms" rather than copy-and-paste the existing forums over to HDmom? e.g. you'd have a GH1 forum on DVinfo.net and a GH1 forum on HDmom and they would have different content.

I agree with some of the posts above which point out that it's not really valid to divide *hardware* into "pro" and "consumer". The pro/consumer distinction is more about how the kit is used rather than the kit itself. An XLR cable is an XLR cable no matter if it's used by a school drama club or Brian Eno.

For example, I'm planning to buy a GH1 with a shoulder support, matte box, follow focus etc. I want a forum where I can ask other folks which shoulder support and matte box people would recommend. I was about to post it on DVinfo.net but now I find that the DVinfo.net GH1 forum is now re-branded as "HD Mom". Most "HD Moms" wont give a damn about matte boxes and shoulder supports so I wont post my question in HDMom.

Definitely feeling a little alienated by this move. I know that was not your intention, so you don't have to defend yourself. It just feels like we are losing potential resources with this move. If I ask a question that someone could have answered on DVi, but they don't use DVMOM, b/c they don't use those cameras anymore, it seems like the probability of some questions getting answered goes down slightly. I know that there are plenty of smart people that will come over with my "less than intelligent" butt and be perfectly capable of answering any question I ask (since I have already received help from several of them), but the possibility of something not being answered could occur when tougher questions are presented to the fora. Then again, they still may not get answered if we where one big happy family, but at least I would know that it was because no one was sure, and not just because a fraction of the group was willing and able to read my question.

Also, not sure about the name either. Guess we are the Momma's boys (and girls) of DVinfo. Oh well.

Thanks for reading my whine,
Justin

I’m trying to empathize with folks who are having trouble with the name. If the owner of this site lived in, say, the UK and decided to create a sister site called HD MUM it wouldn’t make a dime’s worth of difference to me. (Put the coinage of your choice in there.) When I referred people to the site I’d just tell them “it’s in the UK” and they’d get it.

As for the other concerns, I do empathize, but at the same time it’s a great opportunity for knowledgeable people here to lend a hand to those who may be intimidated by this place. I know when I signed up it was hard asking that first question--and several after that.

You might be surprised who all heads over there to answer the tough questions. Give it a chance.

Hey Chris!

Honestly, am not a fan of HD Mom, it is very American centric and almost cheapens and belittles a really important market, the low budget indie film maker doesn't want to be called a soccer mom! Is there a way you can keep the dvinfo brand if you enter through dvinfo and hdmom can co-exist passively in the background if you enter through that?

Cameras will be pigeonholed due to their retail price, like the GH1, and don't deserve that!

Like the colours though!!

Best and keep up the good work!

Phil

P.S. when I dated an New Yorker for a year over there I kept on saying to her it's MUM not MOM!! ;-)

I have to agree with Phil. The HD-MOM thing kind of alienates those of us low budget/indie people and makes those of us with a medical background think of hemodialysis and milk of magnesia!

Good color-scheme though!

the low budget indie film maker doesn't want to be called a soccer mom!

Exactly.

I suspect that calling a tech forum "HDMom" will alienate a large portion of the target audience. I would hazard a guess that Moms of any description will form a vanishingly small portion of the target audience for cameras like the GH1.

The feedback is greatly appreciated, I'm mulling over... but just wanted to point out that we really don't draw much of the low-budget indie filmmaker market; they're already better served elsewhere on the web. I was looking at this from a broader perspective (although I'll concede that filmmakers are without a doubt a highly vocal bunch who love to chat online).

I get what you are saying Chris, that's why we need to build on those markets. Am very keen to help bolster the GH1 part and the 5dmk2 part. Am talking about 5dmk2 workflow at the UK FCPUG this month and am pushing this camera a lot.

More people need to see dvinfo.net as THE place to get un-biased friendly advice. One of the only places on the net where you can.

HD MOM can literally be a simple forum and advice section covering what they want and need.

I don't think DVinfo.net will benefit by being diluted and I think it will drive away the sub $2000 to the "other" site!

There has been HUGE interest in the GH1 on my site and all from budding film makers, let's get some more articles and content on DVinfo and make it the place to go to.

Cheers and have a Salt Licks for me

Phi

the low-budget indie filmmaker market; they're already better served elsewhere on the web.

They might be more "popularly" served elsewhere on the web. But not better served. I'm going to have to stick up for DV Info here, Chris.

The thing that CONSTANTLY changes in indie filmmaking is not the artistry. It's the gear! An ever-improving array of cameras, NLEs, etc. means you have to have a community of people finding and solving bugs in the workflows (there always are with new cameras!) plus being informed of ways to get better results with each of these tools and making the most of the possibilities.

Sure, you could go to a site which is basically a fan-club for one particular brand of camera, with a club-house vibe ("C'mon gang, let's have some fun!") and the endless metadata which that generates. Or you can come to the site which, as Phil Bloom just said is, "THE place to get un-biased friendly advice. One of the only places on the net where you can."

Anything sub-$10K is definitely in the "sweet spot" for a low-budget indie (I've currently got my heart set on an S35 Scarlet) and about 8 years ago I would have killed (figuratively-speaking) to get my hands on a camera which can deliver what these sub-$2K cameras are now capable of doing.

The inherent strength in how you've structured DV Info makes it, in my opinion, the indie's best friend.

coloured by my own peculiarly warped viewpoint (we all have 'em!).

Have to add my no vote to that name, but hey, what's in a name?

My biggest concern is what the "HD MOM - ers" will be missing out on, based on whether I believe I will be making a habit of "dropping in" on the "MOM - ers" or not.

(Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not that big headed I think my absence (from HD MOM) will really be missed).

However, a couple of examples:

The Tools of DV and HD Production,

Standard Definition (DV) Aquisition,

DV/ HD Post Production...and Beyond,

Community Marketplace

How many hardened DVinfo - ers will be leaving their habitual grazing to wonder over to HD MOM for a feed?

If, as I suspect (perhaps incorrectly, tho' quite probable in my case) Dvinfo'ers can't be persuaded to visit HD MOM, then the HD MOM - ers have just lost access to many of the regular contributors to the above forums (I'm assuming being a HD MOM doesn't give you automatic posting rights on DVinfo?).

I can see what you're attempting Chris and am torn between positive views about splitting pro/ consumer and negative views about what both forums lose in the process.

There, how's that for sitting fair and square on the fence?


CS

Well, I'm not sitting on any fence.

I know dvinfo.net is getting pretty big and it takes me quite a while to peruse through all of the forums I'm interested in. But I much prefer it over other more consumer oriented sites I frequent.

I am not involved in professional videomaking but am very serious about what I do with it and fully appreciate the input and advice from the working pro's who share their knowledge and experience. I feel that moving what is considered consumer oriented forums/users away from dvinfo.net could be a move in the wrong direction for what I consider the best video forum going.

The "real name" requirment did not put me off in any way. I feel more comfortable in recieving info and advice from someone who is not hiding behind a "screen name".

Just my thoughts. Probably worth what you paid for them.

Bruce Foreman

Thanks for all of the input so far -- much appreciated!

I can easily restore the DVi consumer camera boards (in fact, per Phil's argument above, the GH1 forum is once again active here, go check it out). In all honesty, I didn't think y'all would mind the split that much, since we're only talking about 4% of the total amount of DVi's posts (roughly 42,000 out of more than 1 million total).

The reason why I linked them out of here is mainly just to avoid duplicate content. That won't be a continuing problem though if a consumer camcorder board on DVi goes in a separate direction via pro-oriented conversations, vs. an anonymous consumer-oriented forum on the same camera model.

One way to approach it is to cover the entire consumer HD camcorder gamut on the consumer site, and have only certain select higher-end consumer models "voted in" to DVi by our members here. It's a bit easier to delineate with the post-production side of things; we'll always have the higher end NLE solutions here, and the sub-$200 applications on the other forum (maybe with some overlap when it comes to Vegas and similar price points).

Once again, I think some of you guys might be taking this move the wrong way... it's not my intention to split up the DVi audience; instead it's to create a new space for a crowd that we don't have yet, or let's say a crowd that we might have now that isn't posting for whatever reason (our lurker-to-member ratio is about 10:1). It's not about forcing you to look at two separate sites; it's about garnering new folks that we wouldn't get otherwise.

I've thought long and hard about making DVi be "everything under one roof," but the reality of it is that for the lower-cost consumer-level stuff, the real names requirement has got to go. Of course that's been DVi's hallmark and the key to its success at the pro level, and I'm not about to compromise that policy just to snag the consumer crowd. That's the reason for a separate domain. I'm able to kick-start it with a dump from our existing consumer fora here, but it doesn't mean that we can't keep them around -- again, my reason for linking the re-directs is just to avoid duplicate content. But hey, believe me, I want to keep you happy.

Shame on me for not putting more thought into the non-U.S. reaction to the domain name. Like I said, it's only five letters and only three syllables, which isn't easy to come by anymore as far as domain names go. That's its primary appeal for me. I'm not married to it, but I'm not sure how I would replace it.

Thanks again,

I must admit i think this concept is a great idea but I am not sure about seeding it with our posts from DVi. I think there are some benefits from carrying over some of the posts from here especially ones geared at consumer branded cams and NLE's but I am not so sure about taking whole divisions lock, stock, and smoking barrel. For example, i just glanced through the "HD mom" A1U board and these threads caught my eye:
HVR-A1U Equivalent for Low-Light - HD Mom (http://www.hdmom.com/forum/sony-hvr-a1-hdr-hc-series-hdv/142680-hvr-a1u-equivalent-low-light.html)
Anyone use a Redrock micro 35mm adapter with the A1? - HD Mom (http://www.hdmom.com/forum/sony-hvr-a1-hdr-hc-series-hdv/141979-anyone-use-redrock-micro-35mm-adapter-a1.html)
When RENDER AS using Vegas 8, which template will give you best HD video output - HD Mom (http://www.hdmom.com/forum/sony-hvr-a1-hdr-hc-series-hdv/117630-when-render-using-vegas-8-template-will-give-you-best-hd-video-output.html)
Granted there is good info there but it is not from a perspective that would benefit most common shooters. With over a million threads on DVinfo.net, it is impossible to go through and weed out threads that are over the top but perhaps it is not so impossible to put out a call to those of us who are on here regularly (major players, wranglers, regulars, etc) to find 10 threads to suggest for transfer that would appeal to casual users and maybe even to request a few of us to go start threads that we think would help the average shooter. Highly technical discussions will only confuse most casual users and I would be very turned off as a user if the site content was way over my head...

I am also concerned about using price points to justify classifications.
...I set the cutoff at around $2000 though...Sony HD1000, since it really is one of only two full-size shoulder mount camcorders costing less than $2000...
As an HD1000U owner, I agree with the B&H and SONY classifications that this is a prosumer camera. Perhaps the muddy water solution is to add a fora on HDmom that is called high-end consumer/prosumer cameras and address those camera there and leave them here because in the end I think you said it best...
...The delineation between "consumer" vs. "professional" has always been in how it's used...
And a consumer searching the internet for information on how to get the footage from their camera to a DVD is interested in things like iMovie, Windows Movie Maker, Nero Express, Final Cut Express, Adobe Elements and others that are free or under $150. They typically are not interested in Vegas Pro, FCP, CS3 or CS4, and on and on... They want to know the best way to do what we do without our prices and by posting our threads geared toward professional usage on a consumer board without filtering it could give the casual viewer the thought that Redrocks and Vegas pro 8 are consumer products and could perceptually devalue the trade you have worked so hard to uphold to the highest standards. I know that would never be your intention.

In fact, I think the concept is great. Like doctors being asked to look at this and tell me what you think, I often have people asking me how they can convert their VHS and Hi-8 tapes to DVD. The concept of capturing, rendering, and authoring seem very foreign to most of my clients unfamiliar to our trade and knowledge is a great thing. Sorry for the long post, I will now step off my soapbox by summing up that I think this is a great concept but vary with you on the current deployment...

One last thought have you considered the domain "HD4Home.com"

you people have too many mommy issues and should schedule appointments with your therapists at once! Calling Dr. Freud, HD MOM is in the house!

Web spaces are funny things. People really take the online spaces that they occupy very seriously and they squat hard. Lots of DVCers have never ventured into the basement to UWOL and many UWOLers ignore the upstairs neighbors. And these are 2 forums that sit right on top of each other and have a similar mission - much harder to get folks to migrate to a whole 'nother site.

I have to agree that the pro/consumer split is a little hard to swallow on the basis of camera types, in this day and age. I have had HV10 and HV20 footage cut into TV shows...

Soccer Mom is also a uniquely US phenomenon. I find it really funny that soccer is so linked to really just young kids in the US whereas in the rest of the worlds it's the most popular sport there is!

I don't think most people outside the US will get where HD Mom comes from because of this. My mum would never come watch me play "football" when I was younger, but my dad did! But hey, what do i know, am a Brit!

But, in all reality the largest audience for this site is the US without a doubt and the name will appeal to the, non-pro audience.

I do agree that a lot of the posts from dvinfo.net on the HD-Mom board are going to be WAY over the head of most consumers and scare them away. It really needs to be a back to basics board. They don't care about bitrates, 35mm adaptors, colourspace etc...they care about price, what the picture quality is like and how they can use it in the home video environment. There are more serious "Soccer Moms" out there, as in people who want to take their home video hobby to the next level and to be honest, I think they are already members here.

It just needs to be a completely separate entity. I am more than happy to post info on there for the consumer who knows nothing to help out and keep my more technical posts for dvinfo.

Hey Chris. Having trouble logging into your new forum. When I try to log in, it says that I have, but then it says I have to log in again, and again, and again. It won't let me in.

Mike

Oh yeah, and my log in is always in upper case. Is that suppose to be?

As a brand name for a consumer camera forum HDMOM is not representative of a wide geodemographic and sociodemographic.

Mom is not used in asia, and that where I am at. Its sooo american.

This will alienate some of the males from a website as it has a very feminine look and feel due to its name. Not being sexist here I'm just basing this from data from a lot of researches being done for market segmentation and analysis.

From a video professional's point of view, its not right to remove those types of cameras to a "consumer" site as a lot of prefessionals also have those and can be a source of rich info for assisting the beginners or other pro's who just happen to buy a "consumer" cam.

I for one don't want to open up several websites to get assistance. I like it here where we interact civilly with real names.

When people use there real names they act like real people.

Respectfully,

Ted

The one thing I see is that it could make it a little awkward for those who use both types of cameras.
Many of the "pro type" guys and gals often use a smaller, more consumer type camera as a second cam.
They have now lost the "one stop shopping" appeal of this place.

I first came here when I had a couple of Pana GS250s. I learned a lot about sound, editing and general video tips from the pros on here...
I also learned about the more professional cameras and eventually got one.
Well that happen at HD Mom? I don't think so.

One surprise was moving the AVCHD Format...there are higher end cameras using that codec now and more coming.

The HDMOM name? Well it is a bit silly. ;) If I was googling up a forum for camera info, I'm not sure it would be my first choice.

And I really, really cannot believe that having to use your real name is an issue.
It was a surprise when I joined, but it certainly didn't stop me and I cannot imagine why it would stop anyone else.

On the flip side, still love this place and visit every day. Thanks Chris!

Bob

As a user of Sony HVR- A1u, I don't like that my camera which I use for pro work qualify me as a Video mom. Its still a professionnal camera as much as the HVR-HD1000 or the Canon GL2. Also, I see a lot of dealers in Montreal who don't advertise(or sell) the Hvr-Hd1000. I don't have much time to spend on the web and I would like to spend my time on dvinfo, I would not be proud to say to people for good information you need HDMOM.

Hakuna Matata!

Maybe "HD Mom" is the "Mom of HD" rather than "HD for Moms"?

In the same way that Meryem is "UWOL Mom", and Chris is "DVi Mom"!

Just a quick thought...

Perhaps threads (or individual posts?) could be tagged with a "level" rating? e.g. discussions about where to buy replacement battery chargers would be tagged with a level "1" whilst discussions of - oh, I don't know - really detailed and technical nuances of colour management would be tagged with a level "5". The level setting would be editable by all users. That might be a way to allow the content to be shared between DVinfo and HDmom whilst still allowing users to quickly find (or avoid) certain content.

Or... completely scrap the HDMom domain (although I do appreciate that a 5-letter domain name is something to be kept hold of) and send everyone to DVi. Folks who aren't registered with a real name can only post or start threads at level 2 or below. Not sure how you'd police that system though. Probably a crap idea.

For what it is worth, the A1U is over the $2000 dividing line (at B&H)...
Sony | HVRA1U HDV Camcorder | HVRA1U | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/384527-REG/Sony_HVRA1U_HVRA1U_HDV_Camcorder.html) And Martin has a point. I have seen several of these deployed as main cams and many deployed as B cams for wedding and event guys...

As a user of Sony HVR- A1u, I don't like that my camera which I use for pro work qualify me as a Video mom. Its still a professionnal camera as much as the HVR-HD1000 or the Canon GL2. Also, I see a lot of dealers in Montreal who don't advertise(or sell) the Hvr-Hd1000. I don't have much time to spend on the web and I would like to spend my time on dvinfo, I would not be proud to say to people for good information you need HDMOM...

In reflection, it really has nothing to do with the tool used or the cost of the tool.

Which site you would use would depend on what your are trying to do. What you are trying to learn. What your goals are.

Young, limited budget with a $600 camera trying to make web commercials and start a business? You want DVInfo.net

Hobbyist with plenty of cash and a $4000 camera taking shots of the grandkids? Maybe you only need HDmom.

That really solves nothing. Its just an observation.

Bob

...The delineation between "consumer" vs. "professional" has always been in how it's used...

Bob, I think CH agrees with you (us) based on the above statement even if the current deployment doesn't quite reflect that concept...

...is if I am in either site and do a search, will the results show all the threads from both sites? If so, it might still allow the separation of sites while not removing the knowledge of non-HDMOM users from those of us that are forced to work within the confines of HDMOM with our camera questions. Not sure if this would ruin what you are trying to do, or if it would even be possible to allow this if one is using real names while the other is not, but it might be something to consider. At the very least, if the threads are labeled with the forum they are located in and coupled with these possibilities, then HDMOM and DVinfo users will have an idea of the level of info.

Justin

Having been "dumped" into HDMOM when accessing some forums on dvinfo.net, it needs a color scheme change. The lack of crisp contrast is very hard on older eyes.

Reaching 70 ain't fer sissies...

One thing I did notice, I was searching for something last night using the forum search, and the links took me to HDMOM - to the forum index page rather than to the specific post I searched for.

I know I could search in both forums, but I was wondering if there was a way for the searches to be unified? Or am I missing something?

I always thought there were too many places to look already. I think right on the top should be a CLEAR DEFINED OPEN FORUM for discussing just about anything, then the main things such as audio and lighting right underneath. Then all the other categories for archives and such. I know you like to keep it all clean and refined but it's just too much. I find that people only respond quickly when it's in the main discussion area, and the moment it gets moved to the "correct category" it dies down quickly. For me personally, I would just like the main discussion area to look at to get the hang of just about everything, then check up sound to see what's going on there (since that's what I do mostly), and then check the part for my camera. Doing all this searching for forums in different areas is confusing, sometimes I just would like to find something I didn't know anything about just by having it in the main discussion! Sorry for the criticism, I really think this is a great forum and the community you have attracted is awesome, but I think a central area that has more too it and the others as more of archives would work much better. I'm a regular at Gearslutz and it's more like this and it's easy, I check the two parts that pertain to me: The main forum for everything and the low end forum for cheapies. Here, if I wanna just pick up new information, I have to search. Maybe check some editing forums, some in a camera forum, some in the news forum, over to the main discussion, etc... I can't say I like that layout.

And now HDMom is really just adding to the amount of searching for information! Now it's going to be two sites? Sorry, I can't say this helps anymore. It's sure isolating me more. Just my oppinion though, others may find such diliniations of information much more organized and better. For me, however, if I want to search for information, I hit up google. If I just wanna see what's talked about today to pick up new information I may have never even thought of before, I go to a forum and for video dvinfo.net has been it. You catch my drift?

The name HD Mom doesn't blow my skirt up, either; but seeing I have no interest in a consumer site, anyway, I would have just kept my opinion to myself. The only reason I'm posting this at all is to let our colleagues overseas know it is offensive to some of us when they come here and bad mouth a term that is part of our culture. If, as Lorinda said, the site were Brittish and it was called HD Mum, I certainly wouldn't go there and say it brings to mind bland food and bad teeth. Poor form, mates.

Well, I think the name is terrible. Yuck. (And if I were British, or Brittish even, HDMum would be just as bad!). For about 5 different reasons all of which have been covered already in the thread.

And the split on price will just make less and less sense over time ... or even now, what with Redrock adapters, the need for B cams with matching footage and Xtreme filming, and so on.

The idea of a nice place for "noobs" or casual shooters is OK, but I tend to suspect that trying to pick an arbitrary point where you "split the market" is probably not going to work all that well.

One of the attractions of the "consumer" cameras is that with a little tweaking and some knowledge, you can get very professional results. Thus why the HV20/30/40 thread is a particularly strange one to have under the "mom" category... not too many casual shooters are going to want 35mm adapters, etc... and we're talking a way under $2k camera... Same for the small Sonys...

My thoughts are that DVi is good for the lurkers to learn, thus why a 10:1 ratio is perfectly fine. Creating a "kiddie park" may not work as well. Nothing wrong with being a "noob", we all were there by default once, but those who don't get into the technology in a "serious" way do so by CHOICE, and it has nothing to do with having a comfy, trendy color lounge to hang out in.

Those who have been on the bleeding edge of HD as it moved from a glimmer to near the standard are going to find the "HD Mom" vibe a bit um... lacking in something... There's a market there somewhere, but watering down a forum doesn't seem like the answer. DVi isn't a scary place to start with, so "mom" shouldn't be worried about coming here and lurking, and maybe kicking in a question once in a while.

We are waisting too much energy in the name debate, which can be easily changed, while we are loosing site of the more important thing: it would take away the core of the concept upon which DVi is built - professional expertise, professional attitude.

And I mean both ways. If the new site will not be supported by the same people who made this one so successful, HDMom will soon become nothing more than the cursing, spitting places all the other sites are.

On the other hand, if some people will decide to "go over", that will deprive some loyals on this site, in fact will deprive all of us of sound professional advice in the sub $2K market, which is a very important one for a lot of professionals looking for a second/third camera to complement their big gun.

If there is a way to link content from DVi to the new site, so be it, but please, please, please, keep DVi as it is!

Thank you, Chris,

Thanks again for all of your valuable feedback -- based on your input I've restored all the consumer fora, so the DVi forum index is once again just as large as it ever was. I am indeed continuing with a separate consumer video forum site, but all of you DVi regulars are now able to ignore it at your convenience.

...have you considered the domain "HD4Home.com"Great idea, thanks Bryan! I went ahead and registered that domain. Much appreciated.

...a lot of the posts from dvinfo.net on the HD-Mom board are going to be WAY over the head of most consumers and scare them away. It really needs to be a back to basics board. They don't care about bitrates, 35mm adaptors, colourspace etc...they care about price, what the picture quality is like and how they can use it in the home video environment.Agreed; I'll prune away most of the 35mm adapter discussions, etc. If somebody's looking for that sort of thing, they'll find it on DVi (the site where 35mm adapters were invented).

Having trouble logging into your new forum... and my log in is always in upper case.I think it's a CSS issue and we're working on sorting it out.

...send everyone to DVi. Folks who aren't registered with a real name can only post or start threads at level 2 or below. Not sure how you'd police that system though. Probably a crap idea.Actually I think it's a good idea; the trouble is that right now it's not very easy to implement. It would involve two username table (one with real names and one with handles), which would require some serious forum software modifications. Anything is possible if enough money is thrown at it though.


For what it is worth, the A1U is over the $2000 dividing line (at B&H).[You're right. On the consumer site I'll keep the HC Series and remove the A1.

...if I am in either site and do a search, will the results show all the threads from both sites?No, but that's a good idea, so maybe we can implement it into Search.

...if the threads are labeled with the forum they are located in... Yes, they already are.

Doing all this searching for forums in different areas is confusing, sometimes I just would like to find something I didn't know anything about just by having it in the main discussion! Wow, what a backwards way to use this site, sorry to say it but you're making things so much more complicated than they need to be. I have no idea why you're searching individual fora when both of our search engines (the vB one and the Google one) return hits that are site-wide. Also, the single best way to find out what's going on at DVi at any time is with one single mouse click: Search New Posts (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/search.php?do=getnew&exclude=188). Again, it's site-wide, covers all our fora, and it's the fastest, most concise way to navigate the combination of most recent and most popular discussion topics. The "Open DV" category you're referring to is just a catch-all for unorganized stuff and it's actually one of the least-used boards we have, so I sure hope we can break your bad habits and get you to improve your experience here.

If the new site will not be supported by the same people who made this one so successful, HDMom will soon become nothing more than the cursing, spitting places all the other sites are.Oh, I think that's rather an extreme assumption and I disagree with you 100%. First, DVi was well-moderated and super-friendly long before it ever went to the real-names policy, and I plan to run the consumer site the same way. In fact, that's the whole reason why I'm setting up such a thing, because right now it doesn't exist in the consumer market. And while DVi is indeed the best pro-level video forum on the web, that doesn't mean I can't attract another group of folks to help moderate a consumer-oriented forum site. The key group that will make it the same level of success that DVi has achieved won't necessarily come from Dvi; they'll probably come in from other areas of the Web not currently related to Dvi.

Once again, some of you guys are completely missing the concept here. This is not about splitting Dvi; it's about creating a completely new space that will complement DVi. For those of you who were upset about DVi's consumer fora, you can relax since I've now restored them, and you can disregard the new site completely if you wish. Hope this helps,

You did the right thing by restoring everything, thank you.

Thank you for bringing back the entry level fora, and good luck with the new one.

thank you Chris, for bringing back the Sony A1u. With all the comment in this thread and the debate on HDmom, you know now(or already know) how much we love DVinfo.net.
Long live to Dvinfo and good luck to HDmom

...Great idea, thanks Bryan! I went ahead and registered that domain. Much appreciated...I'll prune away most of the 35mm adapter discussions, etc...You're right. On the consumer site I'll keep the HC Series and remove the A1...

Chris, Glad you liked the domain suggestion and I am really glad to hear you are going to pair down the threads in the consumer site. Please let me know how we can help. I think the which camera/software/etc threads are going to be big on that site but unfortunately from a very different POV than here.

Again, I think this is a wonderful concept and really the debate should be more focused on implementation and how we can help make this sister community a great place too.

Now if only the camera manufacturers were as responsive to their users' wishes.

Thank you for the restoration!