View Full Version : A hole in the market: S35mm, RAW, affordable


Jack Kelly
October 31st, 2009, 06:15 AM
So, the Oct 30th RED announcement has been and gone. RED are clearly working their asses off and their ambition is astounding.

I look forward to hiring one of those cameras. But I now know for sure that I can’t afford to buy the Scarlet S35 that I was so hoping I’d be able to buy. The S35 brain price hasn’t been announced but the module prices alone put a working S35 camera out of my budget.

This is a real shame. It would appear to leave a gaping hole in the market. vDSLRs have created a huge expectation for low cost, large-sensor video cameras. I wonder if perhaps RED have focussed on competing with ARRI's new digital cinema camera and RED are no longer so eager to compete head-to-head with the vDSLRs.

So. The gauntlet is down to make a camera which will evolve the vDSLRs to a point where they’re usable. Who will step in? Canon? Nikon? Panasonic? Perhaps Silicon Imaging will surprise us all? Perhaps someone else?

Look. I know nothing about making cameras. But I like to day dream. Here are some idle musings I had on the night bus whilst catching up on the RED announcments:

1) Keep it simple. S35 sensor. Compressed RAW (or 10-bit log RGB). Dual XLR inputs (maybe S/PDIF if you’re feeling fancy). No options. Just one model, with one clear purpose and one price.

2) Embrace the rapid development model. Use as many off-the-shelf components as possible. Sensor? Off the shelf from Sony of Fuji or Kodak or someone. CPU? Atom. Compression ASIC? Don’t waste millions developing an ASIC, instead use a mobile GPU or two to do the number crunching. The new nVidia Fermi GPUs are capable of over a trillion single-precision (32-bit) operations per second. Codec? Cineform RAW (you don’t even have to spend time developing any software!) LCD? Don’t even bother making your own - just let people buy from the market. OS? Android? Let 3rd party developers create modules for the OS (intervalometers, wireless triggers etc). The camera will basically be a computer so provide a few EtherExpress ports for storage and add-on modules. Build in WiFi. No need to build your own remote; let 3rd party developers create iPhone / Android apps for smart phones which will talk to the camera body over WiFi. Yes the camera will chew through batteries but who cares? Completely open source the camera’s OS (just look at the enthusiasm with which skilled folks have developed their own firmware for the 5D) and provide cash prizes for developers.

Sell it for around £4,000 - £5k.

I can dream, can’t I?

I certainly don’t want to belittle RED’s incredible achievements. But, from my perspective of a cash-strapped filmmaker, what RED are doing is analogous to the NASA moon missions: awe inspiring and technically phenomenal. But I can’t afford a moon rocket. I just want a fast train. Crap analogy; but you get where I’m going with it, right?

Jack Kelly
October 31st, 2009, 06:20 AM
Or, another option: modify existing dSLRs and add a compressed RAW recording facility and audio.

Brian Drysdale
October 31st, 2009, 08:12 AM
I suspect that RED are aiming their Scarlet S35 at people who might be using the 2/3" or 1/2" cameras rather than 1/3" cameras with 35mm adapters.

The 2/3" Scarlet promises to be a powerful camera for those film makers who don't obsess about shallow DOF and just to tell a story on a lower budget.

The Epic is very much aimed that people who are in the higher end RED One or the lower end Arri HD markets.

For people who can accept the compromises of the DSLR HD video they have the production volumes to keep costs down because they're primary aimed at the larger stills market. Could be the small market for a RAW motion recorder for the DSLR would take the costs into the Scarlet S35 bracket anyway.

RED's marketing model isn't one for those people who must have a camera straight away. Basically don't make any plans until they're in production.

Brian Standing
October 31st, 2009, 09:22 AM
I'd settle for a Panasonic GH-1 with a super-16 sized sensor, a C-mount lens adapter, and a live feed out the HDMI port.

Doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

Of course, there's this:
http://www.ikonoskop.com/dii/

Now, if it were just a bit cheaper....

Emmanuel Plakiotis
October 31st, 2009, 01:57 PM
If you read Red's Oct30 announcement, there is not a Scarlet S35 in the pipeline anymore. I guess they figure out that it will cannibalize the sales of Epic S35, especially on hard economic times like these.

The order of camera release according to JJ is:
Epic X S35 (Red 1 owners only)
Epic S35
Scarlet 2/3
Epic FF
Scarlet FF
Epic 645
Epic 617

Also if delivery of Epic S35 has been pushed back at least 6 months that means that Scarlet will be available around one year from now.

More info at:
http://red.cachefly.net/OctoberPost.jpg

Jack Kelly
October 31st, 2009, 02:05 PM
Jim accidentally left the Scarlet S35 off the list. It's back on the list now.

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