View Full Version : Just Got My NextoDI!


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Aaron Newsome
October 31st, 2009, 10:44 AM
I think most of you guys are aware that Convergent Design is now a Nexto dealer. I'd been looking to get a NextoDI for a few weeks, considering buying unit without a hard drive and supplying my own. Since they don't sell it that way anymore, I decided to just go ahead with the 500GB unit.

The Convergent Design guys fixed me up and sent me a 500GB unit, fully loaded with accessories.

For the last few days I've been "stress testing" the little box, so I know what too expect out in the field. While the box is a little slowish to copy a 32GB flash card to the internal hard drive, this thing is flawless in operation. This will definitely give me some confidence of footage backup out in the field.

With this box and hot swap card capability, I could literally shoot all day long with zero interruption!

Daniel Symmes
October 31st, 2009, 10:48 AM
I for one didn't know. No mention on the Web site.

I thought they were repped out of an outfit in Torrance, CA.

ONE STOP SHOPPING!

Aaron Newsome
October 31st, 2009, 11:39 AM
I didn't know they were either and then Dan mentioned it in another thread. I was going to buy it from B&H originally.

Mark Job
October 31st, 2009, 06:47 PM
Hi Aaron:
What model number of Nexto did you purchase ?

Lance Librandi
October 31st, 2009, 07:08 PM
Hi Aaron,
You are very lucky. Can u tell me how it takes you to cycle a full 32GB Card. In desperation I have had to resort to using Shotput Pro and a raid 1 drive on my Mac Book Pro which runs very slow and not ideal for field backup.

Dan Keaton
October 31st, 2009, 07:15 PM
Dear Mark,

Aaron purchased a 2700, with a 500 GB hard drive.

(I do not think Aaron will mind me answering this question.)

Billy Steinberg
October 31st, 2009, 08:34 PM
It takes 17 minutes for my Nexto 2700 (500gb) to ingest a full 32GB Kingston 133x card.

FWIW.

Billy

Daniel Symmes
October 31st, 2009, 08:43 PM
Do I understand you can have an external drive (eSATA) attached to the NEXTO and therefore offload to two places at the same time?

Mark Job
October 31st, 2009, 09:25 PM
It takes 17 minutes for my Nexto 2700 (500gb) to ingest a full 32GB Kingston 133x card.

FWIW.

Billy....Hey Billy: Uhh, that's a long time break when you need to keep on shooting. This is probably a non-issue with an XDR stocked with four 32 GB CF cards and hot swap working. A Nano would need to be stuffed with 2 X 64 GB cards, but then it would take twice as long to dump. Who cares about 64 GB cards now, since the 128 GB will be out in time for Christmas !

Dan Keaton
November 1st, 2009, 02:18 AM
Dear Mark,

The same company that says that their 128 GB is due out soon also announced a 100 GB card last year, about the same time as their 64 GB card was announced.

We have not seen the 100 GB card yet, and we could not get their 64 GB card to work.

I think it is highly unlikely that you will see a 128 GB card from this company before Christmas based on their track record, but this is a personal opinion.



On the other hand, another company, PhotoFast, has delivered a 64 GB card, at a reasonable price, that passes our tests and will be supported in our next release due out in approximately two weeks.

Billy Steinberg
November 1st, 2009, 04:01 AM
....Hey Billy: Uhh, that's a long time break when you need to keep on shooting.

Actually, I was using the Nexto long after the shoot was over so that I didn't have to insert the CF cards into my Mac. I got a bunch of CF cards from a friend and didn't want to risk frying one of them; I had more than enough total CF cards to handle the long shoot without needing to offload. Since Lance asked, and I just got through transferring data from five cards, I thought I'd mention it. I am looking forward to getting a bunch of $300 64GB CF cards, now that CD has certified them.

Juggling the CF cards around while recording a four hour show is no fun, but thankfully the nano shows each card's usage, which makes it harder to screw up. I am REALLY looking forward to hot swapping. When the logical break time was after recording on one and a half cards, I had to stop the nano, remove the full card from slot one (put a piece of paper tape over its contacts area as a "record lockout tab"), remove the half used card from slot two and put it into slot one, and put a previously formatted empty card into slot two, then go back into record.

Well, maybe it wasn't really so bad, but it will be nice when i don't have to stop the recording, and I have 64GB cards.

Billy

Lance Librandi
November 1st, 2009, 04:54 AM
Hey Guys how do you manage your media on the NEXTO are you able to create folders that you can name or assign numbers or do you just end up with a heap of noname folder?

Thanks

Aaron Newsome
November 1st, 2009, 11:45 AM
Hey Guys how do you manage your media on the NEXTO are you able to create folders that you can name or assign numbers or do you just end up with a heap of noname folder?

Thanks

Hi Lance. The NextoDI automatically creates folders for each card you insert and copy, it's a very sensible system and you don't have to create any folders manually.

After I insert a bunch of cards and copy them, there are are bunch of folders in the root of the NextoDi, one for each card I copied. Like this:

20091101.001
20091101.002
20091101.003
and so on.

The entire contents of each card are in a top level folder

Aaron Newsome
November 1st, 2009, 11:50 AM
20 minutes is a long time to copy a card but I was able to continue shooting with hardly a break using 4 cards, for many hours. I did this by using two cards in the XDR and two out. When the first two filled up, I turned off the XDR, removed the cards quickly, put the two other cards in quickly, formatted them and continued recording.

While recording on the swap out cards, I downloaded the other two cards to the Nexto while recording.

I did this for over three hours and the break to power down the XDR and swap cards is very quick. On set during a production, this would be very reasonable to manage. Much faster than a film change or making everyone wait while a P2 card was offloaded or something.

If the XDR had hot swap, I could record an indefinite amount of time without ever stopping.

Lance Librandi
November 1st, 2009, 06:33 PM
Do I understand you can have an external drive (eSATA) attached to the NEXTO and therefore offload to two places at the same time?

Hello Daniel,
I am unable to find information on that it's a great idea. I think the NVS2500 is the one I would go for that covers all the card stock that I use. It's go to better than carrying a laptop everywhere and 85 min to off load two 32GB cards to a raid 1 array.

Daniel Symmes
November 1st, 2009, 06:43 PM
For the feature I'm preparing, we'll use the 2500 since I also have EX3.

I BELIEVE I read it can do the two copies gag. EXCELLENT backup.

My 2nd assistant will take the "exposed" cards and shortly thereafter copy to the NEXTO/eSATA external.

For low budget, the cards are reused. For a film with a budget, I'd send the cards to editorial, keeping the copies for director review and safety.

Seems like the best of all worlds.

Steve Brown
November 4th, 2009, 12:48 AM
I have searched the CD website and nanoflash.net for info about the NextoDI, but I don't see anything. Where are you guys hiding it? :-D

Dan Keaton
November 4th, 2009, 06:19 AM
Dear Steve,

We are attempting to revamp our website.

A nice place to see nanoFlash accessories is to go to nanoflash.net (http://www.nanoFlash.net) and click on the accessories page. But, the Nexto is not on the site just yet. I will try to change that.

If you email me with your phone number, I will be happy to call you to discuss the Nexto.
It is a great device.

Dan at Convergent-Design.com

Steve Brown
November 4th, 2009, 02:29 PM
Dan... I will do that. I'm tied up in never-ending production this week, but I'll touch base with you next week on the Nexto.

Thanks,
Steve

David Cherniack
November 4th, 2009, 04:31 PM
Do I understand you can have an external drive (eSATA) attached to the NEXTO and therefore offload to two places at the same time?

Looks to me like the e-sata port is for connecting the Nexto to a computer, not for additional storage.

Daniel Symmes
November 4th, 2009, 04:53 PM
Lance -

Indeed. the 2500 is the top dog for flexibility.

Now...if it can offload to two places at the same time...

Aaron Newsome
November 7th, 2009, 02:33 PM
Used the Nexto on location today and now I realize just how long 20 minutes per card can be. Painful.

We had two cameras and we both are working on edits with each others footage so we wanted to swap footage. Downloaded both of our cards into the Nexto after the shoot. By the time it was finished, EVERYONE had packed up and left. We were the only ones there,.. still waiting.

Love the Nexto but 20 minutes per card seems like an eternity when you're looking at it transfer data from cards.

Mark Job
November 7th, 2009, 02:54 PM
Hi Aaron:
Is this kind of delay really practical ? If one considers the minimum retail street price for the unit, versus it's performance, then does it ballance out for you ? I was frankly stunned at the bizarre price difference between the Nexto 2700 & the NVS2500. The only difference between the two units is one has video preview (But with no audio - Go figure that !) You now what ? For a price difference of around $1,400.00 between video preview and no preview and the one with a 500GB HDD with video preview going for $ 1,999.99 Nexto DI can keep it ! :-( I will save that doe and apply it towards uncompressed upgrade for my Flash XDR and the purchase of a nice new Convergent Design Nano Flash unit.

Dan Keaton
November 7th, 2009, 11:14 PM
Dear Aaron,

I understand that 20 minutes can be painful.

In case you do not know, the Nexto units can also do incremental copies.

For example, during your first break (if any) one can copy the cards to the Nexto unit.

Then you can shoot some more, and then when are done for the day, start another copy. Only the new files will then be copied to the Nexto, saving you some time.

So, if you do have a lunch break, the Nexto can be working to save you time later in the day.

Last January, while shooting with the Flash XDR and using the Nexto, I copied each card to the Nexto as soon as each card was full. At the end of the shoot, I had only one card to copy. It completed before we were done packing up, but we had a complex shoot with lots of lights and equipment.

Also, the Nexto can be copying files on the drive home. But, in your case, this was not practical.

(Note, the rough figure of 20 minutes comes from Nexto's rated speed of around 40 seconds per Gigabyte, so this applies to a 32 GB card.)

I am not attempting to defend or promote the Nexto in this post, just offer some insight into how it may be used.

Mark Job
November 8th, 2009, 07:01 AM
Hi Dan:
The price on the Nexto 2700 500 GB seems to be realistic. I suppose this is the sweet spot.

John Richard
November 8th, 2009, 09:40 AM
I would like to add that the Nexto 2700 is much smaller than the perception given by the photos. I was expecting something much larger. It's about the size of the Nano and the cases are set up for wearing on a belt.

It's a nifty little device. Bypasses the need for a laptop/reader to off load cards. We got it for the safety it affords with the wierd Leopard/occasional card over-voltage damage issue.

And at it's price point, I could see it as a great way to FedX off files to others in collabrative chain.

Bob Griffiths
November 8th, 2009, 09:41 AM
(Note, the rough figure of 20 minutes comes from Nexto's rated speed of around 40 seconds per Gigabyte, so this applies to a 32 GB card.)


Hey Dan,
My reading of the NextoDI site reveals that the 40s/GB is only for the transfer. If you want to verify the file transfers, an additional 80s/GB is required. Is that correct? One of the big advantages of the Nexto units for me is that the files can be verified. But 120s/GB means roughly 2 hours/64GB card. The only solution I can see is to buy 2 of the Nexto units. At $330.00-ish USD per unit, it's not horrible... and you have a verified back-up. Of course, that may mean an extra CF card or two also. Hoo-boy...

BTW, did we ever answer the question about simultaneous write to another drive through the Nexto 2700? It would be wonderful to be able to dump the CF card to the Nexto AND write to the back-up drive at the same time. Possible?

BTW2, hope to be purchasing soon through Telecorps...

Thanks!

John Richard
November 8th, 2009, 09:56 AM
"BTW, did we ever answer the question about simultaneous write to another drive through the Nexto 2700? It would be wonderful to be able to dump the CF card to the Nexto AND write to the back-up drive at the same time. Possible?"

I don't think this is possible. The literature states that all the card slots become inactive when connected to a computer. This is not exactly what I think you were trying to do but it seems to indicate that when outputting from the Nexto, the card slots are not active.

Daniel Symmes
November 8th, 2009, 10:28 AM
In my many travels I THOUGHT I read where the 2500 can accept the CF as te source to copy to the internal drive and output via the eSATA to an external at the same time.

I have asked here about this, but so far, no comment.

Aaron Newsome
November 8th, 2009, 10:44 AM
On my unit, the card slots don't appear to do anything once the USB is activated. I haven't looked into to it too much though.

I thought of the Nexto as a PERMANENT storage device for projects original footage. This would give me a permanent backup of each project. Given the average size of projects so far, that would be less than $100 per project. When it fills up, buy a new one.

I say backup, but it's really a 3rd copy of the data since the working copies that I edit from are on my RAID array and that's also backed up. The only thing missing is an off-site scheme.

Daniel Symmes
November 8th, 2009, 10:56 AM
I wouldn't be using the USB for ANYTHING.

CF in for internal copy. Out via eSATA.

It would be cheaper overall if you buy bare drives and swap them out. I've heard of this being done.

Aaron Newsome
November 8th, 2009, 11:21 AM
Well on a real computer, yes I would use a faster bus but my main computer is an iMac and that's the only way to use a Nexto is USB. There is no way to put an eSata card in an iMac.

I also have a stack of 10 small compact aluminum hard drive laptop cases that I use to archive projects to, especially when the project has to travel to someone else. These cases are great because they are self powered with firewire 400 and all aluminum keeps them cool. You can edit right from the footage on the drive.

The cases are only $35 and the bare 500GB Western Digital hard drives are around $84 if I remember right. Definitely a low cost archiving solution, and again each project can be archived for less than $100.

Daniel Symmes
November 8th, 2009, 11:26 AM
The MAC's were the first with ExpressCard and now they're even turning their backs on FIREWIRE.

Sad state of affairs.

I use an inexpensive ExpressCard eSATA solution on my Lenovo laptop. I can have up to four externals at the same time which is great for location work.

Dan Keaton
November 8th, 2009, 11:38 AM
I wouldn't be using the USB for ANYTHING.

CF in for internal copy. Out via eSATA.

It would be cheaper overall if you buy bare drives and swap them out. I've heard of this being done.

Dear Daniel,

The Nexto DI 2700 used to be available without a hard disk drive.

In fact, my two original, person units were purchased this way. It worked fine for me.

But, I purchased the best, highest capacity, rugged laptop internal hard disk drives available.

Others did not always purchase a suitable hard disk drive for use with their bare-bones Nexto. This created a nightware for Nexto.

While their Nexto (the bare bones unit) worked flawlessly, the unit as a whole, with various hard disk drives did not. This created a major problem for Nexto handling problems that were not of their making.


Background:

Since the Nexto is such a small, compact, fits-in-your-hand device, many use it that way.

I remember starting file copies with the unit in my hard, then continuing the transfer for some time while I was waving it around. Eventually, I would just put it down.

Later, I found out that only a select few hard drives work well in this "waving it around while in use" scenario.

Nexto tested quite a few hard drives from various manufacturers. Most major brands did not pass this test. These include some brands that I personally consider top notch.

While we were working with Nexto in order to become a dealer for this device, I wanted to be able to purchase the hard drive separately. This was not an option.

I came to the conclusion, for Nexto, that this made good sense as they can ensure that a suitable disk drive is always used.

I yielded on my request and in return Nexto provided us with a two-year warranty on all units that we sell.

I hope this helps.

Daniel Symmes
November 8th, 2009, 12:09 PM
Dan -

I wasn't assuming "waving around" as the NEXTO would actually reside near the script super, STATIONARY. Hard drives tend to not like "waving" in my experience.

I only suggested the drive swap because of what Aaron was thinking.

Can YOU confirm (or not) that the 2500 CAN copy to it's internal AND an external eSATA at the same time? I THOUGHT I read of this.

Dan Keaton
November 8th, 2009, 12:53 PM
Dear Daniel,

I will be speaking with Nexto's expert on Monday. I will try to determine if "dual output" is possible.

Bob Griffiths
November 8th, 2009, 02:40 PM
...and ask them about the 2700 too, please?

I'm looking at the 2700 as the primary repository of verified footage transfered from the CF cards. Then I will reformat the CF card and put it back in shoot rotation. I then plan to back-up the Nexto unit to another drive... presently I have a couple OWC Mercury On-The-Go 500GB drives. It looks like I will have to do that through my MacBook Pro... I'm not seeing any other way. But please ask.

I agree with Mark that the 2500 seems overpriced but if it can do this whole CF-to-Nexto-to-OWC transfer thing simultaneously, the 2500 might be worth it. I have no real plans to watch playback on the 2500 but I am sure once I have it, I'll use it.

Thanks Dan... and everyone else on this forum. This is ...by far... the most open and helpful vendor site I have ever seen. Your openness and Dan/Mike/Tommy's participation here are making this purchase decision a no brainer. Oh, and the nano itself is pretty cool too. ;-)

Dan Keaton
November 8th, 2009, 04:44 PM
Dear Bob,

Yes, I will be asking these questions for both the Nexto 2500 (with video playback capability) and the Nexto 2700 (no video playback capability).

Please note that their are other differences that make up the units, but the video playback of the 2500 is the most distinguishing feature.


Thank you for the nice words about us being open.

We feel that being honest and open helps everyone, including us.

If we have problems, we try to post them here. Users, of course, report problems here also.

This allows us and others to comment on the problems, which can be a real benefit to all. If something is not working, then everyone should take steps to avoid the same problem / setup or condition.

And, we can take immediate steps to eliminate the problem.


While we talk openly about problems and successes, we also feel that the nanoFlash is very reliable and is being used professionally every day. We shipped over 500 units by the end of October and very few are sitting on dealers shelves.

The physical conditions that the nanoFlash has been subjected to have been rather extreme.

One example was the Extreme games in Los Angles this year.

Another is sending 8 nanoFlashes to 80,000 to 98,000 feet and back while recording. One flight ended in a crash landing that destroyed the camera without any damage to the two nanoFlashes on board.

Surviving the heat, high humidity and rough conditions of West Papua New Guinea for a month is another example.

Mark Job
November 8th, 2009, 05:53 PM
Hi Dan:
The next time you speak to the Nexto DI folks, could you let them know I want to buy a 1 TB nexto with Video & Audio monitoring capability. For this I willing to pay $1, 500.00 and not a penny more.

Daniel Symmes
November 10th, 2009, 07:48 PM
Current issue (4NOV09) TV TECHNOLOGY has a review of the Nexto 2500.

Ned Soltz
November 10th, 2009, 08:13 PM
A significant difference between the 2700 and the 2500 is ruggedization. The 2500 has a harder enclosure and rubberized end caps. I suspect that there are additional shock mounts for the hard drive and I know that Nexto tested several drive mechanisms for durability.

When you consider that Sony is about to market a similar device which only reads SxS (naturally) and which is more bulky than the Nexto AND which will sell around $2200, the 2500 represents excellent value.

Ned Soltz

Daniel Symmes
November 10th, 2009, 08:37 PM
Size and the fact it accepts virtually ANY card, with eSATA out????

At least for feature production, it's a must. Consider it a time saver (i.e. saved $$$) and an insurance method (i.e. avoiding DISASTERS).

The other models fit other aspects, but this one does it all.

Bob Griffiths
November 11th, 2009, 11:45 AM
Hey Dan,

How did your meeting on Monday go with the Nexto Experts? Enquiring minds, etc., etc...

Thanks!

Aaron Newsome
November 11th, 2009, 12:31 PM
Maybe they decided to put a Nexto INSIDE the XDR. There's enough room in there, I've checked.

Dan Keaton
November 11th, 2009, 03:08 PM
Dear Bob,

I can report that the Nexto's are not designed to record to the internal disk and to an external disk via the eSata connection simultaneously.

I can also confirm that the Nexto 2500 is a more rugged device.

The 2500 does not have audio output.

The 2500 works well with Snow Leopard. I am certain that the 2700 will work well also.

Bob Griffiths
November 11th, 2009, 04:21 PM
I think that one of the big questions (for me at least) was if the Nexto 2500 could read from CF, write to it's internal drive AND write to an external drive simultaneously. From everything I have been reading, it can. Go to: Nexto DI - Next Generation Storage with Digital Interface (http://www.nextodi.com/en/product/NVS2500_en.html) Scroll down to Multiple Back-up Functions. Also seems that the 2500 is the only Nexto unit that can do it.

Edit: Maybe not by eSATA, Dan... but I think I read in that TV Technology article that it can by USB2

Closer & closer...

Thanks!

Daniel Symmes
November 11th, 2009, 04:30 PM
I've been asking about this for a while.

I can't see writing out the USB as practical considering USB itself. Speed-wise a show stopper.

If, in fact, the NEXTO can't offload to two, simultaneous destinations (internal/eSATA), we would like to have a final word on this.

Software can (ShotPut), so perhaps I will rethink my offloading procedures.

Bob Griffiths
November 11th, 2009, 04:37 PM
Well... if the Nexto website counts for anything... we know it can back up to an internal and an external disk at the same time. We just don't know how. Anybody got a manual on this thing?

Daniel Symmes
November 11th, 2009, 04:46 PM
That's been my issue for weeks.

The review in TV TECH specifically says one can go internal AND external via USB.

With USB you'll be waiting LONGER than it takes to write to the internal drive (which is SATA). So I can't see the USB out as practical, time-wise.

If it puts out via USB, why not eSATA??????

Dan Keaton
November 11th, 2009, 05:16 PM
Dear Bob,

I double checked my answer from Nexto.

The "Multiple Backup Function" works with USB only.

The eSata port is for connection to a computer only.