I will try to make this short and sweet because God knows, there are tons of steps that can be involved. I am looking at making blu ray on the imac.

What I'm running in case you need to know:
cameras - XHA1, HV30 and Canon MarkII.

24" IMAC, 3.06 ghz with final cut pro 7, just purchased external LG blu ray burner.

i always shoot in HD, 1920 30p. finally figured out a great workflow for SD DVD. now for blu ray...

first off, i do not and will not use compressor. i just won't. i have spent hours / days / weeks with compressor and have got my BEST results exporting right from final cut pro as quicktime. i'm either exporting as quicktime file in 1920 (file/export/qt file) or exporting right to H.264...file/export/qt .....forgot the 2nd option.

so anyway, once i get this H.264 file exported in 1920x1080 it looks SWEET! WHAT TO DO WITH THIS FILE! do i bring that right into titanium 10? roxio toast? just to burn? i do have encore for mac but there are NO MENUS in the library tab so i can't make menus and i want to stay away from encore anyway if i'm not using premiere pro anymore (used it on pc's and the workflow was outstanding!)

anyway, there is the other option of going right from the final cut pro timeline burned directly to blu ray. file / share / blu ray disc. have you guys done this? i know the menus are limiting and basic and too small to view before burning, but how does it work?

i would like to hear from those with the workflow minus compressor.

ideally i would like to export my final films as H.264 files for burning blu rays. if i really have to, i guess i can just burn from the final cut pro timeline to blu ray with a basic generic menu.

i have edited HD in premiere pro, exported right to encore as H.264 and the blu rays look OUTSTANDING! i'm looking for a workflow for mac.

thanks!
steve

Believe it or not the PP/Encore path for Blu-Ray is still your best bet for the Mac. This workflow - and the comparison to FCP - is something I'll cover in my workflow website soon but it's at least a month or so out before I can work it into the list of "coming soon" items.

There are a few dozen or so threads with people using the "Share" option in Compressor to export to BR but you've stated want to avoid Compressor altogether - and others who've used Toast/BR plug-in but as I say, you have far more options and controllability with PP/Encore.

If you have a PC version of PP I'd strongly suggest sending it into Adobe for their cross-over platform disc transfer. For a small fee Adobe will take your existing physical installation media and exchange it for a same-version-number Mac install media with install codes. That's my suggestion.

Going forward with BR on Mac is total speculation; many are expecting that because FCP7 offers the limited BR burn option now that the next iteration of FCS (due out sometime this year - we all hope) will go full-bore into BR authoring. I consider that highly doubtful but as always with Apple, *nobody* knows until the next version hits the market. God knows when.

thanks for the great info Robert and i really look forward to reading your workflow website. please let me know when it's done, or give me the url and i will check back often! i do have encore for mac but i don't have anything in the library tab as far as menu templates. there are no menus or anything! it's totally blank and this is something that a lot of people are dealing with on the adobe forums. my pc version had the libraries and all encore templates...not mac. many users are frantically looking in the install disc, like me, just to find nothing. I don't know why they all installed on the pc version, all menu templates and buttons. on the mac version...nothing. no one knows where to get it installed.

regardless of that, you are right, the workflow from PP to encore is really great. unlike apple products, when you say SEND TO, it actually SENDS TO encore and it looks outstanding! i miss that. there is no export of a movie to import into anything (compressor.) you just edit and send the timeline to encore, ecore launches, and it's beautiful. i suppose i could start editing again in PP but i have really come to love final cut pro. regardless of what i do, i have to find out why those templates are not anywhere in encore! i wonder if i can edit in final cut, export H.264, and import that file into PP for the cool PP to encore workflow. probably not a good idea. i'm still going to work on getting blu ray out of final cut. i got rid of my high end quad pc for video editing to go mac. i enjoy mac a lot more, just need a good blu ray workflow on it now.

i was wanting to edit in FCP, export file/export qt conversion for H.264 and import that into encore.

My workflow tutorials have been concentrated on other areas recently so I can't comment on that issue (I don't remember that being a problem on my installation but will double-check) however I'm going to contact my person at Adobe and ask them about this and get back to you - and the forum - with an answer.

In the meantime I'd highly suggest putting in a trouble ticket with Adobe and reporting the issue; they've been quite fast at responding with fixes/answers the past 6 months.

great! thanks SO MUCH for checking with your contact at adobe. i called them today and got 2 reps that were clueless and said they never heard of that before...but it's all over their forums.

So you're saying that using the Library as denoted in this tutorial you get nothing?

Learn Encore CS4 - Authoring for Blu-ray disks | Adobe TV (http://tv.adobe.com/watch/learn-encore-cs4/authoring-for-bluray-disks/)

Has anything changed such as your scratch-disk or library locations recently? Have you moved/migrated/changed HDD's that contain any assets to PP/Encore?

When was the last time you did any system-wide maintenance? (Onyx, for example)

I'll get back to you once I have a direct answer from Adobe.

As you know, In encore there are menu templates under the library tab in
encore. After clicking on the library tab in encore you then
click on menus. From there you select weddings and there may
be 5 templates to use. Or click on family and you will find maybe 10
or so for family events. Well... There are no templates. Click on
the library tab and there are no categories. All blank. I made no changes.
It's a new iMac of a few months with a new install of cs4 for mac. I was
shocked to see so many other users with the same issue after a google
search for encore cs4 template menu library empty. Sorry for the weird spacing. I'm on the iPhone now.

I should get some headway on this with an answer by no later than Weds or Thurs and let you know what I learn.

OK, here's from the "horses mouth":

"Here’s an answer from one of our techs:

I know the answer, but I don’t have the disc right in front of me at the moment so I’m paraphrasing a little. They’ll need to run the installer again. When they have a choice between easy install and custom, choose custom. This will allow them to manually select components for install. Then scroll way down the list. There’s an item there for the Encore content. I can’t remember the exact wording of the file, but it’s a big one, around 4 GB. They need to check this box for install and then run the installer. That should take care of it. For users who did an ESD download, they need to go back into their Adobe Store order and there will be an additional download link for the additional Encore content. They need to download it, and then run it."

That sounds correct to me; I think for some reason by default PP doesn't install all the menu content assuming people may not have the HDD space available.

Try the above and see if this gets you fixed up - and if not let me know.

Robert, I appreciate all the checking you did! I did read this as well on one of their forums and I actually don't have the install option like that. When I run the install / setup, it brings me to the main screen with all the software choices to install by putting a check next to them. there is nothing anywhere for easy install or custom install. No options other than just a list of the apps to check or uncheck from install. Murphy's law.

Here's one forum entry I found regarding this:

http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/408/kb408826.html#ionComHeading

I'm going to check again when I get home, but I have scrolled that list several times.

... just purchased external LG blu ray burner.



Hi Steve.

I'm looking at purchasing an external Blu-ray burner in a few weeks and was earlier considering the LG (nice price!), but when I looked at specs, it said it only operated with Windows OS. I think it was the BE06 model I was looking at.

Which model number did you get? And did you have to obtain any special software or firmware to get it running properly with OS X?

Thanks.

David, you know what, I have had it for close to 2 months now and it's still in the box! I know I know, that's sacriledge...but I have not had time. I have also been wrestling with HD to SD conversion. I will take it out of the box tonight and let you know. I got mine from B and H I believe, and there were a few mac users with comments saying it was outstanding for them. Just plug and play and go.

Robert, I appreciate all the checking you did! I did read this as well on one of their forums and I actually don't have the install option like that. When I run the install / setup, it brings me to the main screen with all the software choices to install by putting a check next to them. there is nothing anywhere for easy install or custom install. No options other than just a list of the apps to check or uncheck from install. Murphy's law.

Here's one forum entry I found regarding this:

Library content is missing (Encore CS4) (http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/408/kb408826.html#ionComHeading)

I'm going to check again when I get home, but I have scrolled that list several times.

I'm not at a place where I can replicate this issue on my own machine right now but I've forwarded this info - along with the support page from Adobe - to my contact and will get back to you when I have more info.

BTW: The LG burner seems to work just fine in external FW enclosures; I don't see it being an issue with an internal install for a Mac Pro and should also work perfectly in Boot Camp. The days of "Windows only" drivers for optical drives are long gone especially now that both Mac and Wintel systems are using the same core chipsets.

David, I was wrong. I have just taken it out of the box and setting it up right now...plug and play. It's a Lacie d2 blu ray external burner. it has firewire 400 and usb 2.0. i'm connecting via usb. going to try and export a 44 min. video to blu ray disc via final cut pro timeline. not sure how long it will take. i will keep you posted.

for the 44 minute video, final cut said it would take 8 hours. this sounds about normal unfortunately. this is on a 24" imac, 3.06 core 2 duo with 4 gigs ram. i had to leave for work this morning with 1 hour left. i look forward to tonight and viewing the results. i will post what i find.

i am not used to just clicking MAKE BLU RAY DISC and it working. i like to tweak settings and oversee stuff but with this, you can't. i need the control but if it works and the blu ray looks awesome, so be it. there is no way of knowing the settings since there aren't any...which drives me nuts. when i was using encore i would set it to 35mbs cbr. i hate vbr and hope this doesn't do that. there are also only 4 generic menus, 2 of which are solid black and solid white. but you can add a still photo as a menu...no music can be added. kinda boring. but again, if the result is awesome blu ray i guess i don't care too much. for clients, they're going to have to get a still frame as menu with text as chapter links....no cool graphics....if this works nicely. if they want SD DVD that's a different story of course. i will be using idvd. i prefer it over dvd studio pro. for now this is what it is going to have to be for blu ray.

It's a Lacie d2 blu ray external burner.

Thanks for getting back to me with that info, Steve. Yeah, the LaCie is the one I figured I'd get (but it was worth checking out the possibility of the cheaper LG model). And I'm very interested in how your Blu-ray burn goes. I'll likely be following in your footsteps in about a month!

Alright you guys, I went into the studio after work, being greeted with an ejected blu ray disk. went upstairs and popped it into the blu ray player on the tv. It looks good! I have a 720p and blu ray movies look outstanding on it...this disc I made looks really good. I can only imagine how much better it would look if i didn't have the slight pixelation issues due to deinterlacing, shooting in 30p, when i should have used 24p or 60i. i love the 30p look for the film / progressive look, but that has caused some quality issues in exporting.

with SD DVD i noticed some quality loss in pixelation, some jaggy lines. really irritating. i took the exact same final cut pro timeline and burned to blu ray so i could A and B. there is a difference.

a couple things i hate with this blu ray workflow...really basic limited menu creation, as i stated before. and, the preview window is SO SMALL you can't read what will be on your screen! The screen to preview your menu is literally like 1" X 1"...you can't read text that's less than 1 mm in size! What were they thinking? As I said, I also hate that I have no idea what the quality settings are! For all I know it is set at 25mb! with blu ray the max is 40!

In the end I am happy with this quality. Unfortunately, at the moment, it's all I can do until I can get the menus and everything loaded in the Encore library. Thanks again for that investigation Robert!

I am wondering what to set my final cut pro settings to. What should compressor be set to in settings? Right now it is 1080 60i I think. The timeline is set for pro res 422.

If I switch to 60i (even though I hate that smooth look), should I capture in HDV 1080 60i, or pro res 422? thoughts?

Steve

Steve,

Have you had a chance to verify the re-installation steps suggested by the Adobe tech? You're sure there's no options anywhere for a custom install?

Can you send me a screen-shot or two of those screens so I can forward this to my contact at Adobe? (My machine is unavailable for this operation for a while).

Robert, there are no options for a custom install anywhere...but i do have options. I was under the impression when i click on the setup icon it will present me with 2 options...custom and easy...whatever. But, instead, when i click on setup it takes about 5 mins. for the process to go over what is already installed and do its checks. Once that wait is over i get a screen with all CS4 apps. They have little boxes to the left of them for installs. Encore is of course listed so I check it to do a reinstall. It goes through the entire process but again, there are still no items in the library folder. I scrolled all the way down the list of apps and not anything related to library or anything for Encore extras. It's so easy to do, but nothing extra gets installed with CS4.

OK, I've forwarded this on.

Which burner do you recommend for my Mac Pro?

I am thinking about the latest LG or Pioneer models. Are they compatible?

The LG BH08LS20 is the cheapest model and has good specifications.

Is anyone using this burner with a Mac?

I am not using LG, although I love their stuff and their burners. I used LG on my pcs. For my imac I'm using an external firewire / usb 2.0 (and i'm connecting via usb 2.0) by Lacie. The Lacie D2. it works great. got it for around $380 at B and H. plug and play, it just works.

I've used the LG since January and it worked great. But I've left my previous company and with the new company we're thinking of buying a new Pioneer BDR-203 12x blu-ray burner. 12x should be a lot faster than the 4x LG I'm used to.

Pioneer Blu-ray/SuperDrive Burner - up to 1... (BDR-205-BK) at OWC (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Pioneer/BDR205BKMP/)

i wouldn't burn at high speeds. maybe the technology has changed but i don't think it's a good idea to burn faster than 2X. I'm not sure but I think mine can burn up to 12X but I still burn at 2X for stability.

I'm still tracking this issue with Adobe and the Encore library and will get back when I have more details - hopefully soon.

Robert, thanks! I really appreciate it!
Steve

I've had no other updates from Adobe on this issue and so far the KB article on the Adobe website has not been updated with any fix either. I'm assuming they're either trying to fix this or, it's been pushed off to more high-priority project but either way, I don't have any more info to add at this point.

My own CS4 system won't be back in my home office for at least another month so it'll be a while before I can tackle this myself directly.

Thanks Robert. I have tried uninstalling the complete package, reinstalling, with no luck at all. this is unacceptable, especially with all the huge money they charge for this package! i'm a tech, so i'm pretty analytical...very detail-minded, and rarely ever give up. there's nothing complex about it. you would think there would be something like add / remove options in windows. there is nothing to click on for options. literally, i just get the entire list of what is on the disc, program-wise, with a box next to each, after clicking on setup. scroll down to find adobe encore...and that's it. not one drop menu or sub menu, nothing related to install menus at all. i can't use their product i dropped huge money on if it doesn't install the very important add-ons! there are many users with this issue on the forums. no help whatsoever from adobe. i'm close to turning my back on adobe forever, this is beyond ridiculous. thank you again for all your help!
steve

Jeesh! After all that, I'm amazed you persevered with Adobe for so long!

My Adobe-free (and Compressor-free) workflow:

1 - Export full-rez HD QT movie file from FCP (ProRes422?)
2 - Drop into Toast 10 (with BD plugin)
3 - Burn on external LG BD burner (they'll all work).

Steve: i had a problem with FCS2 not installing HD codecs, and i downloaded Pacifist to analyze and then install only what needed to be installed from the FCS2 disc (instead of installing EVERYTHING). it worked for me, and maybe it would be worth a try while you wait for Adobe...

I'm burning projects now to Blu-Ray via Compressor and Toast.
This is my work flow.
Render out quicktime for FCP.
Bring asset into Compressor.
Choose Elementary Stream
Choose Audio template of your choice for me this is Dolby Digital 2.0
Set max bit rate to 36 and avg bit rate to about 34.

Render out.
After render you have two files make sure both theses files are the same name with their respective extensions.
Open up Toast:
Set Encoding to:
Video format MPEG-2
Average Bit Rate 26.Mbbs
Max Bit Rate 26Mbps
Motion Estimation: Best
Re-encoding: never
Field Dominance: Automatic
Aspect Ratio: 16:9

Choose your simple template:
Burn the BD
Enjoy

The reason Steve and I use Encore is because it's a template-free authoring option allow full customization of menu setups and structure. It's not the full-spec BR authoring available in Scenarist or Blu-Print, more like a simplified version of DVDSP Pro but it's a far cry from being shackled to templates.

Steve: I'm following up with Adobe again on the missing library issue. I still don't have my CS4 system back yet and won't until late next month otherwise I'd be crunching away on this myself.

Yes I agree with being shackled to templates, Toast and it's templates are well......
I wish Apple would just do something about this, it is now beyond a joke and down right wrong that they wont release a working BD authoring program.
Anyway I wish I had CS4 Encore to makes a BD template as I'm delivering BD content with these silly looking templates but on the up side the footage looks great.

Cheers

I wish Apple would just do something about this, it is now beyond a joke and down right wrong that they wont release a working BD authoring program...

Trust me, you're preaching to the choir with everyone on this forum. The hope is (if not logical conclusion - even for Apple-land) is that now that they've teased with adding BR export that the next iteration of FCS will finally get a full-on BR solution.

But, based on Apple's decisions the past 3 years nobody should be holding their breath on that or any other much-needed/highly anticipated future release.

About the Encore missing library issue:

My contact at Adobe has gone totally silent; I've heard nothing back about this issue and see no further updates of this problem on their KB articles either.

Until I get my own CS4 system back I can't offer any further help, sadly.

Just today I bought a Pioneer Blu Ray burner. I've had some issue in the past with LG burners so shied away from buying the LG today even though it was cheaper. The only ext case they had was a cheap looking USB 2 and eSata one but it seemed OK.

Anyway get home, try a data burn from Toast 10 and made a coaster. It flashed up a message saying something about inconsistent connection to device. Would this be trying to burn too fast over USB 2 maybe?

It got the Dir structure on the disk but none of the files. Burned a DVD ok though after (4X speed).
??

I used the external LG Blu-Ray (8x) burner in my old job connected with USB and never had any issues. I know that the new Pioneer is 12x. Maybe try telling Toast not to burn at 12x (maximum speed). Maybe if you choose something like 8x or 4x you won't have problems.

But I suspect something else is wrong because Toast usually slows the burn speed down automatically to prevent buffer underruns.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

I finally learned why my Adobe contacts had gone silent: They were both working on job offers from other companies and have both moved on. Currently I don't have an inside track into PP/Encore troubleshooting but am working on establishing that new connection.

So unfortunately I still don't have an answer as to the missing library issue with Encore CS4 as my system that has CS4 on on it is still out of state.

However I can tell you that I'm currently on the Beta program for CS5 PP and Encore and while I absolutely can't give you any details I can easily say that if Apple doesn't step up soon and match Adobe's progress... well, it's going to get interesting this year for NLE work on the Mac.

Steve,

If I can find another contact to help with the library issue I'll get back to you on that.

Interesting Robert. In addition, I think there are so many people out there who have BOTH the Final Cut Pro Studio and Adobe CS4 Production Premium (which includes Premiere), it would be very easy to switch from FCP to Premiere Pro. I know, I'm one of those people. I do a lot of work in After Effects and there would be some distinct advantages to switching to Premiere.

PP in it's current iteration was already way ahead of FCP7 in several key areas and now with the progress made in CS5 that gap has just gotten much larger. Of course nobody knows when or what Apple will or won't do to be competitive but from my perspective they've got a long way to go to even keep pace, much more to outdo Adobe at this point.

As I say as this year plays out it will be very interesting to see what happens on the Apple side - if anything.

Robert,

What about PP CS4 do you think is far ahead of Final Cut Pro? I have both the CS4 suite
and the Final Cut Studio (3) Suite (the one with Final Cut Pro 7). I find myself using
FCP much more often....although to be fair, it is probably because I have a TON more
plug ins for FCP. But PP is NOT much faster, or more stable or anything like that, in
my use. It DOES offer the option to author blu ray disks through Encore, which is
part of the reason I got CS4. I figured I'd want Photoshop and After Effects, so I might
as well get Encore as well. Although, the way things have worked out is kind of
funny, I found that Motion 4 is one of the best parts of the Final Cut Suite, it's
missing a couple of AE things like expressions (not that I'm any good with those anyways,
too much like programming for my liking) but Motion 4 is real close to AE....with the
big exception that AE has WAY more third party plug ins you can get for it (kind of
like the advantage FCP has over PP in my experience). I've had two clients in the last
month ask for Blu Ray, so I was gearing myself up to go to HD. And then both of them
decided to downgrade back to SD/DVD production as they wanted to save money.
But hey, I CAN burn a Blu Ray, even if no one actually wants me to do it, I've got
the capability now, just don't have anyone that actually wants it. Go figure.
I guess the good side is I can play around with it and be more comfortable when
people DO actually start wanting HD stuff (that will happen right??)