Open to suggestions with regard to how this cam should be situated
within DVi's forum order. It's part of the XDCAM family, but do you
think it should have its own board, because of how unique it is?

Edit: Above refers to the new Sony PMW-F3 but applies to the
Panasonic AF100 as well. The AF100 is part of the AVCCAM family,
but I'm thinking it probably deserves its own area.

Perhaps just add a fourth heading to the Sony XDCAM and NXCAM Camera Systems...

"Sony XDCAM Big Sensor for Bigger Pockets" specifically for the F3.

I intended to suggest that as a joke, but realize it isn't that funny because it's true.

This camera's an extremely different one to categorize. It may depend on possible forum reconfiguration.

Large Sensor cameras.
Digital Cinema cameras.
Cameras for Episodic TV production.

By codec it's XDCAM EX 35mbps 4:2:0 but is that really the intended primary codec for this camera or is just a built in proxy with the primary intent to use HD-SDI out and Dual Link? Certainly all EX cameras have the codec in common but the others may chose to use EX as primary recording and this camera it would be no way (IMHO) given its target market.

Maybe it's time for a "Professional Large Sensor" forum.

Dear Chris,

I would recommend a separate board, or a separate sub-forum.

While this new PMW-F3 camera is widely compared to other cameras, such as the AF100/AF101, from what I have heard from knowledgeable people, is that this camera has an outstanding sensor and is a very upscale product with a low price tag.

The only thing that would put this in the category of an EX1/EX3/PMW-320/PMW-350 camera would be that it records, internally at 35 Mbps 4:2:0.

But, of course, there are external recorders to allow higher quality recordings.

Since very few have seen actual footage from this camera, I feel that it is premature to put it in the same category with under $10,000 cameras.

Split this thread out of the tech. discussion of the Sony F3...

I prefer to keep 'em all grouped by manufacturer, but I'm not married that idea.

While we're at it, we should probably create a home for the Sony NEX-VG10
and Panasonic TM700.

Chris, a dedicated home for the VG10 would be greatly appreciated. Also, as far as the F3 is concerned, I think giving it its own home would be a smart play. If current web rumblings are correct, it will have similiar products joining it from Sony as well, in which case, you could re-title the channel to encompass whatever products fit the somewhat unique market. "Sony Large Sensor Digital Cinema" with some sort of spin to differentiate it from the High-end CineAlta stuff. My 2 cents.

-burk

I think there should be a separate Digital Cine section for large sensor ( larger than 2/3 inch ) cameras. Neither the Panasonic AF-100 or the Sony PMW-F3 have much in common with their ENG siblings, and I imagine the style of digital cine shooting will be quite different from traditional ENG work.

We have that already, sort of:

HD and UHD ( 2K+ ) Digital Cinema Forum at DVinfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/hd-uhd-2k-digital-cinema/)

Another idea, Chris, is that I know you said that you like to keep camera categories grouped by manufacturer, but what if you had a Digital Cinema Category (2/3 sensor and up, interchangeable lens, a set minimum codec requirement and feature set, etc) that encompassed all cameras fitting the bill, and you put that category in each manufacturer's grouping, but had it linked all to the same forum?

-burk

call it Digital Cinema 1080p...

We have that already, sort of:

HD and UHD ( 2K+ ) Digital Cinema Forum at DVinfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/hd-uhd-2k-digital-cinema/)

Right now, HD & UHD sub-category is listed under the HD Video Acquisition section.
Perhaps this category of cameras will soon be large enough to have its own section, ie: Canon, Sony, etc. Then, you can list each camera by the manufacturer. Within a year, this category of cameras may be packed with new models.
But listing the cameras under their manufacturer is good, too.

Sure appreciate all the great suggestions. I think what we're
going to do is keep 'em all grouped by manufacturer, and list
them from the top down in order of price. In the Sony category
we'll start with the F3 and go down to HDV & DV at the bottom.

Digital Cinema is kinda hard to pigeon-hole. My first exposure
to it was Bennett Miller's The Cruise, from 1998, shot on a
VX1000. If it's digital, it can be digital cinema.

The Sony F3 board is up: Sony XDCAM F3 CineAlta Forum at DVinfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-f3-cinealta/)

And one for the Sony VG10: Sony AVCHD NEX-VG10 Forum at DVinfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-avchd-nex-vg10/)

And the Panasonic AF100: Panasonic AVCCAM AG-AF100 Forum at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-avccam-ag-af100-camcorder/)

I think it's fine the way it is.

And the Panasonic AF100: Panasonic AVCCAM AG-AF100 Forum at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-avccam-ag-af100-camcorder/)What happened? This now redirects to a sub-forum of DVXUser AF100 (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?213-AF100) Did I miss an announcement?

There was a quite heavy technical discussion on the AF100's resolution figures then it got moved.

For the F3 a dedicated board is entirely approrpriate due to the expandability and capability of the system. I think Sony hit one out of the park with that one.

Also, however implemented, there needs to be a policy that allows rational discussion of the physical limits of systems, e.g. remove contentious and argumentative posts but let the fact-based discussion lead where it may.

There was a quite heavy technical discussion on the AF100's resolution figures then it got moved.There were plenty of other threads about the camera including some hands-on experiences. It seems a little extreme to direct all discussion of this camera to a 'rival' forum. They have sub-forums for the Panasonic GH2 & Canon 5D over there too. Why not close these forums too? Aside from the fact that the other forum looks ugly it has a far higher noise to signal ratio than here not least because we all benefit from Chris Hurd's robust moderation of these forums in keeping out the crap.

I am a bit surprised that the AF100 forum now redirects to DVXUser.
Adam Wilt has posted a great Panasonic AF100, Sony F3 article on chart tests he ran (elsewhere), which had a good critique of the strengths and weaknesses of each which might have been a worthy addition to the AF100 forum.

... not least because we all benefit from Chris Hurd's robust moderation of these forums in keeping out the crap.

And that's why I love DV Info. I want the info about the best practices to get the best results from the gear. And how to overcome the limitations (there is no perfect camera) and find the workarounds.

And trust me, Chris did the right thing. Look around at what happened at other forums (DVXUser and DV Doctor) afterwards.

I'm very interested in the AF100, F3 and (as of today's announcements) the NEX FS100.

But all I want is the info. Without the personal agendas.

I can see flushing the forum content if Chris felt it was needed but now there's no way to start fresh since there's no "postable" AF100 forum.

Having run into Chris at SXSW here in Austin last week, I have a suspicion that the AF100 forum will return in the not-so-distant future.

While everyone has an agenda (I'm a reseller - but I'm also a user like everyone else), balancing the freedom of contributors with editorial responsibility is an honorable endeavor - and no small undertaking.

When that can be done at a level satisfactory to Chris, I would bet we'll see this forum return.

Allan Barnwell
Omega Broadcast Group - Professional Video Sales, Rental & Services (http://www.omegabroadcast.com)

Perhaps just add a fourth heading to the Sony XDCAM and NXCAM Camera Systems...

"Sony XDCAM Big Sensor for Bigger Pockets" specifically for the F3.

I intended to suggest that as a joke, but realize it isn't that funny because it's true.

It is true.
Also Sony went to a lot of trouble to ensure and prove that XDCAM source material would be accepted by broadcasters. They won't do this for NXCAM. They do see it as a "prosumer" product.
Great little pov camera all the same.

I have a suspicion that the AF100 forum will return in the not-so-distant future.And now it has indeed returned: Panasonic AVCCAM AG-AF100 Camcorder Forum at DVinfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-avccam-ag-af100-camcorder/)