Ok the magic date i have heard is August 22 for new products from canon for photo and video...the spoiler is it was leaked what some of the new high end photo products will be

a NEW full frame canon d5 camera and an updated version of the 1dm2 labled 1dm2N, the updates are pretty much like the dvx had with the 'a' model

however it has been reported that 20 new products will be out, some will be be video, it could be a new gl3 with 16:9 chipset, i don't think it's going to be an xl3, or maybe an updated optura xi...it could also be a new projector, as video was not specific to camcorder or whatever

august 22, feel free to reply to this thread on aug 23 on what a bs story this is, or on the other hand....

I had an email saying a HD camera may be available in September. I wrote about it this morning on my website.

cheers

well then that would make sense with my aug 22 date...how ever i doubt very much that it will be an xl3

it's probably GL3 as an HD cam =).

it's only TWO tuesdays away, I CAN'T WAIT!!!

Ten to one says it's a GL3 that does HDV & DV. As a HUGE fan of the GL1, I cannot wait for the GL3. I'll be on the list for one the day it comes out.

I just don't think they're ready for an XL3 yet. Gosh, the XL3 has barely been out 9 or 10 months.

Again, let's just remember that there isn't even a way to play back HDV yet on your television other than from the camera or a deck that few own. The HD DVD guys need to get going!

KW

Well they have to have an HDV cam to compete against sony so I guess that's what they'll bring. Like to see something higher end, but Canon will probably wait it out for another year or so on that.

do you guys remember how long it took from xl1 to xl1s? how about xl1s to xl2? i think that'll give us a good timeline on when we can expect to go from xl2 to xl3.

This might be of interest to you all ...



"yes canon is finally releasing a HD camera. my uncle is doing all the photos for advertisement/trade shows and such and just got it in his studio today, its an actual working cam too. i dont remember the name of it but it will be HD, and it will set you back 8-10 thousand . as soon as he gets pics ill be sure to post them, and it will be officially announced by canon in novemeber."

This might be of interest to you all ...


"yes canon is finally releasing a HD camera. my uncle is doing all the photos for advertisement/trade shows and such and just got it in his studio today, its an actual working cam too. i dont remember the name of it but it will be HD, and it will set you back 8-10 thousand . as soon as he gets pics ill be sure to post them, and it will be officially announced by canon in novemeber."

That would be a good way to keep XL-2 owners happy if the newly released camera cost considerably more and was in addition to, not a replacement for, the XL-2. Will be interesting to see what happens over the next few months.

Let the tongues begin to wag.....

-gb-

I believe that would be Canon's exact strategy at the moment. Somewhere a while back they mentioned that because all of this HD stuff came out so fast, they would have to break their ususal product cycle to get some HD stuff out the door ASAP. At $8k-$10k for an HD XL-like camera, the XL2 would seem like a steal at the (depending on where you shop) sub-$4,000 dollar price tag. So, an HD XL-like camera isn't out of the question at all and nobody really can refute that because we simply don't know what Canon is doing with its HD plans. Hopefully we'll get an answer sooner than the 22nd. Just for fun sakes.

Boy I'm glad we have an Area 51 for this sort of non-info.

Originally Posted by Unknown ...my uncle is doing all the photos for advertisement/trade shows and such and just got it in his studio today... as soon as he gets pics ill be sure to post themHow many red flags can you count here? That "statement" is good for laughs only. My uncle, my foot. Laurence, I'm asking ya nicely, *please* don't drag the garbage you find on other sites into this message board. The quote you've found is about as ridiculous as some of the XL2 claims from last year. For example, somebody had announced that their brother or their friend worked in the factory that printed the "XL2 labels." I think this person's photographer uncle is related to that label printer guy.

We should set some new standards for Area 51, because this one just doesn't cut the mustard.

lol. either way, i just hope that the new HD cam will re-use the xl lenses i have. do you think they will have? i have 16x&3x leftover from xl1s days.

You can read what seems to be an internal document about the rumored Canon 5d DSLR here: http://www.infodigitalcamera.com/Canon5D-specs.pdf

Can be a fake, but if it is, it's a good one.

A fun read

c'mon it's just 13MP. i thought 16MP came out ages ago and we have 20+MP already. why is technology so damn slow?

Well, I don't know how a DSLR camera can give us a good guess on what the video cameras will be like. If Canon were going that route, then that would mean we would be seeing a CMOS-based camera when they lift the curtain. This would be interesting to see, though Sony's new CMOS HDV cameras have been said to have issues but do come 98% close to the same picture quality of their FX1/Z1 brothers. If Canon does this, they'll have to do a much better job than Sony did for filmmakers to pass up the HVX200 and even the JVC HD100 (which, in my opinion, produces terrific 24p HDV footage).

Only posted for the fun of all...

Understood! I guess ultimately that's what Area 51 is all about. Thanks Laurence,

At $8k-$10k for an HD XL-like camera . . .
How could Canon possibly justify that price range? The JVC HD-100 is about $6,000, as is the Panasonic HVX200. The former has removable lenses -- the XL2's only real advantage -- while the latter offers an arguably better HD format (actually two), as well as variable frame rates. To compete, Canon has to offer a reason to choose the "XL3" over the other two. My suggestions:

Three half-inch 1,920 x 1,080 CCDs or CMOS chips, or one bigger chip
14-bit A/D converter
Interchangeable lenses
The same complement of formats that Panasonic offers: DVCPRO HD/50/25 and DV (1080/60i, 1080/24p, 1080/30p, 720/60p, 720/24p, 720/30p, 480/60i, 480/24p, 480/30p), including variable framing rates
A full 1,440 x 1,080 format that includes 24p
The ability to take P2, Compact Flash, or a hard drive (with the controller circuity built into the camera)
Recordable uncompressed output, preferably built-in Reel Stream 4:4:4, 42-bit, ultra-def output (e.g., for greenscreen compositing)

Wake up, Lawrence. Time for breakfast! :-)

You're dreaming...I guess you're allowed to do that in Area 51.

I do not expect an XL3 announcement this month. I do think we will get the GL3 that is similar to the SONY cameras...HDV, but still 1/4" CCD's. It's been a while since Canon came out with a totally new design for a product...it's usually an offshoot of existing series. Same here...GL3 will be similar to GL2, but with HDV.

If you're expecting a 1/2" CCD w/ all the HD bells & whistles to come out of Canon's consumer division, yes the one that currently makes the XL2 and GL2...well, go back to sleep. :-O

Kevin

Wake up, Lawrence. Time for breakfast! :-)

You're dreaming...I guess you're allowed to do that in Area 51.

I do not expect an XL3 announcement this month. I do think we will get the GL3 that is similar to the SONY cameras...HDV, but still 1/4" CCD's. It's been a while since Canon came out with a totally new design for a product...it's usually an offshoot of existing series. Same here...GL3 will be similar to GL2, but with HDV.

If you're expecting a 1/2" CCD w/ all the HD bells & whistles to come out of Canon's consumer division, yes the one that currently makes the XL2 and GL2...well, go back to sleep. :-O

Kevin
Had you bothered to read my post, I was suggesting ways that Canon could offer a competitive HD "XL3" product, not a me-too product. If Canon pursues HDV, the whole removable-lens advantage has been lost to JVC, which charges about $6,000 for its 24p HDV offering. Putting aside the problems associated with licensing DVCPRO HD (not to mention Canon's likely lack of desire to do so) -- Canon would have to offer something beyond the HVX200, should they decide to license the format from Panasonic. The issue was whether an HD XL3 would justify $8,000 to $10,000, and unless they offer much of what I suggested, they're going to have a hard sell at $7,000, let alone $8,000 or more.

The low-light capabilities of SD quarter-inch imager already suffer. Those of third-inch HD cameras likewise suffer, because of the increased pixel density. So you're now telling me that Canon -- whom you accuse of failing to introduce anything innovative in recent years -- will produce acceptably functional quarter-inch HD imagers. I guess dreaming's contagious.

Geez Lawrence, that'd be a sweet camera but out of all of that, all Canon could potentially offer to keep it under $10k would be three 1/2" CCD's or one really wicked CMOS solution.

Geez Lawrence, that'd be a sweet camera but out of all of that, all Canon could potentially offer to keep it under $10k would be three 1/2" CCD's or one really wicked CMOS solution.
How so? You know that Canon has to offer a removable lens on the "XL3." It has to offer 24p. And I believe it really has to offer a usable hard-disk option. A 14-bit A/D converter doesn't seem like a stretch. If it licensed DVCPRO HD (which is unlikely), it should be able to offer all that Panasonic offers (the full 1,440 x 1,080 is admittedly unrealistic) and would probably be obligated to include P2 (the DVCPRO HD tape heads alone are like $10,000), which may or may not preclude also offering a Compact Flash option. Including Reel Stream technology out of the box may seem unrealistic -- the Andromeda mod costs about $3,500. But how low would Reel Stream be willing to go if they could get a lump-sum licensing fee of, say, $5,000,000? I admit that the half-inch sensors are the least likely, but I would hardly call them a fantasy. I think it's only a matter of time before somebody offers them.

Well, even so, why the Andromeda thing? If Canon were to do that, all they'd have to do is rig the camera to use the fullest possible resolution possible. Plus, the Andromeda is still in beta testing and I can't see it being a good thing to put in camera right off the bat. It's simply too overexposed and open for most users to take full advantage of. Remember, most of the people that buy XL2's are people doing weddings and nature stuff for broadcast. You don't hear too much about filmmakers with the XL2, heck, most of those Blockbuster and Hollywood video straight to video horror D-movies are probably shot on a DVX100/A. Plus, they haven't even gotten an Andromeda device for any other camera than the DVX100/A working yet.

I agree, Compactflash would be an interesting storage medium, but I don't think it will work all too well for HD video. I remember reading something about that somewhere but the conclusion was that it wasn't possible yet. =P darn.

Now if a DVCPRO/HD tape mechanism is $10k, can you imagine what a hot swappable HDD mechanism would cost to be built into the camera? Probably the same or maybe more for all I know!

I don't know what Canon is going to do. It seems like JVC just jumped up and wedgied them doesn't it? =) We'll just have to wait and see.

Now if a DVCPRO/HD tape mechanism is $10k, can you imagine what a hot swappable HDD mechanism would cost to be built into the camera? Probably the same or maybe more for all I know!No, no... much less. Much, much less. The FireStore FS-3 had hot-swappable drives and it runs under $2000. HD tape decks are incredibly expensive, but direct-to-disk solutions for HD need not be. This is in fact one of the many big advantages of tapeless solutions. I don't know about a built-in swappable HDD chassis, but the external version pretty much exists already, save for the HD firmware upgrade, and it would be only about a third or a fourth of the cost of an HD tape transport.

hi folx,

what size would those hard drives be? 2.5? 3.5?

how much space (in gigabytes) would an hour of 720p or 1080p hi def footage take up?

Considering that Panasonic's outlook for 1080i DVCPROHD would take up about 4 minutes real time on a 4gb P2 card, then I would guess it would be about one gigabyte per minute depending on what resolution you're shooting with. I may be wrong on that figure, but if I'm right then HDD solutions would seem to be the best bet for the finest quality recording.

Thanks for clearing that up for me BTW Chris! I was just going on speculation =).

jack,

so a 60minute (1 hour) raw footage of 1080i HD would be roughly 60GB? aren't people editing on HD platforms now? is this true? what about 1080p, how much would that take up120GB since it'll have twice the info?

Well, it depends mostly on the camera. The resolution being used is the big thing, 1080i on 1920x1080 is much bigger than the 1440x1080 the HVX200 is using. So to make the earlier estimate correct, 1080i at 1440x1080 resolution is roughly one gigabyte per minute. 1920x1080 would be much more of course. But yeah, 120gb HDD's would hold roughly 120 minutes of footage, more like 118 minutes but you get the point. But there currently aren't Firestore modules at any drive size bigger than 80gb. Unless you're in a closed set and using a laptop to record the video on to, even then using external drives, then you can record however much you can afford.

if there are adaptors that work with sata hard drives, couldn't you just buy a 500gb hard drive and hook it up? 500gb is roughly 7+ HOURS!

Well of everything that was said- I find the GL3 HDV camera to be the most exciting.........I'm imagining a flourite lens with around 20X zoom and HDV progressive 720 (I hope they don't go the interlaced route) and the current form factor of the GL series (maybe change the color to black)...if they can keep it under $3000 they'd likely sell as many as they could produce...I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Yes indeed! An HDV GL3 with, hopefully, a good 24p mode for under or around $3k would sell like hotcakes. But why change the color scheme to black? I always liked the colorful look of Canon cameras, I don't want to see them jump back to just regular ol' industry standard black just to save $5 or so.

Well, even so, why the Andromeda thing? If Canon were to do that, all they'd have to do is rig the camera to use the fullest possible resolution possible. Plus, the Andromeda is still in beta testing and I can't see it being a good thing to put in camera right off the bat. It's simply too overexposed and open for most users to take full advantage of. Remember, most of the people that buy XL2's are people doing weddings and nature stuff for broadcast. You don't hear too much about filmmakers with the XL2, heck, most of those Blockbuster and Hollywood video straight to video horror D-movies are probably shot on a DVX100/A. Plus, they haven't even gotten an Andromeda device for any other camera than the DVX100/A working yet.
There are an increasing number of people using the XL2 for 24p work, but it's still relatively new compared with the DVX100/A. And as far as adding something like Andromeda, it could be there as an option for those stalwart enough -- and have sufficient reason -- to use it. Ideally, it would use the same external drive port discussed below and have internal logic so that it doesn't have to be connected to a laptop, but even if had to be, that would probably be acceptable to those who really need it.

I agree, Compactflash would be an interesting storage medium, but I don't think it will work all too well for HD video. I remember reading something about that somewhere but the conclusion was that it wasn't possible yet. =P darn.
I believe that you will see sufficient Compact Flash speeds and capacities in the not-too-distant future. But it was only a suggestion. Something better is bound to come along.

Now if a DVCPRO/HD tape mechanism is $10k, can you imagine what a hot swappable HDD mechanism would cost to be built into the camera?
I didn't mean the drive had to be integrated, only the logic circuits and a FireWire connection. Then you'd be able to connect to a relatively cheap external drive.

An affordable GL3 WOULD sell like hotcakes (and don't think Canon doesn't know it!), but you just KNOW they're going to have to cripple it in some way. The absence of XLRs is a given, though it's not a big deal since I have a barely unused Beachtek DXA-8 in storage; but there has definitely got to be something big missing. In my opinion, probably 24p or widescreen. I'd rather have 24p than true anamorphic that's for sure.

The thing is I could splurge for the fuller-featured JVC price range, but honestly right now I'd rather not spend that much just to get HDV when there's not even a real distribution medium yet and bugs have already been reported. In general, I don't like being the first to adopt a new generation of equipment technology. I prefer to let the bugs works themselves out first and let the market establish itself and play itself out before investing.

I think that in the meantime, a GL3 type camera would be a perfect compromise of getting a little taste of the next generation, but still being able to affordably wait for the stabilization of the marketplace and the transition of all support technology (which is half the equation in itself).

In my opinion, probably 24p or widescreen. I'd rather have 24p than true anamorphic that's for sure.

Maybe I'm not following you, but anything which shoots HD will have to support widescreen...

Eugene, 16 x 9 is the standard for HDV.

One nightmare for me would be if they come out and say "real 16 x 9, 24 p!!!" and still not have made the move to HDV. Wow, I just thought of that and that would really suck. Canon is slow to move, but I hope they're not this slow. Seriously, if this happens, I'm going to move on from their line. Let's hope not and that we get a nice HDV camera.

Kevin

Haha, you're right. anomorhic, high-def. Still, you know what I mean, something's gotta be missing.

why assume that something will be wrong or crippled on the canon camera? i don't really understand the pessimistic mindset.

this is the same company which, up until the release of the Z1, offered the most fully-featured, uncompromised camcorder in its class. we could argue over whether its features are the "best" in class or not, but there is no disputing that canon gave consumers every feature they requested in the XL2. interchangeable lenses, native 16:9, 4-mic input options. what other camera can match this? (even the Z1 does not have interchangeable lenses, which are so awesome for shooting nature/wildlife).

whatever canon cooks up will certainly distinguish it from other cameras in its class. whether it is worth the wait or not is a purely subjective decision.

if you believe that something better is already on the table with the sony line and that canon will invariably disappoint, then why wait at all? why even wonder about it. pull the trigger, already.

i keep feeling tempted by the FX1, but every time i get ready to pull the trigger, i don't.

waiting on canon and hoping whatever they bring to the table will be as good as their SD line....

quick, before i buy a sony!

If Canon comes up with a GL3 and it features only 16:9 and 24P they'd be giving us what Panasonic has been giving us, only years too late- let's hope they don't do that!!!!!

GL-HDV is more like what Canon loyalists are looking for- matter of fact, isn't Canon one of the companies involved in developing the HDV spec? Would be ashame to see them back another year with no HDV offering for the prosumer market.

Give us a $2499 HDV GL!!!!!!!!!!! (retain the 20X flourite lens!!!)

Canon's hdv cam gl3 cam will just be to occupy some marketspace. I doubt they will do what they have to make it better than the Sony.

It's the HD cam or similar announcement from Canon that more people will be interested in.

That might be true- but imagine if they do release a consumer/prosumer HDV camera at the same price points of the HDV cams out today- I think allot of loyal Canon enthusiasts would buy into the Canon camera- I know for certain- I would!
'
The GL series has nearly "cult" status amongst DV enthusiats- I think they could do the same if they came out with an affordable "progressive" HDV cam- time will tell.

does anyone know how long it was between xl1&xl1s release dates? then between xl1s and xl2? how long?

This may not actually have anything to do with these new releases but the out of stock date of the GL2 is mid-november and the XL2 is december...kinda implies a new product coming in to replace them.

For Yi,

The XL1 was announced Nov. 1997 and shipped Jan. 1998.
The XL1S was announced Jul. 2001 and shipped Sep. 2001.
The XL2 was announced Jul. 2004 and shipped Sep. 2004.

The GL1 was announced Jul. 1998 and shipped Sep. 1998.
The GL2 was announced Jul. 2002 and shipped Sep. 2002.

Hope this helps,

THANKS CHRIS!

according to that release schedule:

The XL1 was announced Nov. 1997 and shipped Jan. 1998.
The XL1S was announced Jul. 2001 and shipped Sep. 2001.
The XL2 was announced Jul. 2004 and shipped Sep. 2004.
The XL2S (XL3?) will be announced Jul. 2007 and shipped Sep. 2007.

The GL1 was announced Jul. 1998 and shipped Sep. 1998.
The GL2 was announced Jul. 2002 and shipped Sep. 2002.
The GL3 will be announced Jul. 2006 and shipped Sep. 2006.

if the GL3 is early this year, i think we should all be surprised given the past histories. XL2s/XL3 in '07 sounds just about right =).

Yeah, if Canon made an hdv cam with true 24p, 1/3 chips and some xlr inputs, that would beat the Sony in my book, all other things being equal.

Canon WILL be releasing at least three new products (in stores) on September 4th. The replacment for the SD500 is the SD550, all I know is the name, the price (499.99) and the date. But this news does imply a few more new models. Also the new Optura 600 and S1 are due out in September in case you haven't read Canon's site lately.

So nothing along HDV camcorders?
Big mistake in my opinion- each day that goes by they lose market share in the most promising video format to be adopted since DV- sad.
I really wish they'd jump on the bandwagon and produce a few HDV cams.

Well, this thread started with words that Aug 22nd would bring us some more news. Don't know what it will be, but I'm going to guess a consumer-level HDV camera that folks looking to upgrade from cameras like the DVX100a and XL2 level will skip.

I'll stick to my guns (see this post (www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=317526&postcount=82) from May 27th) and predict that Canon will wait until closer to the release of Panasonic's upcoming HVX200 and then head 'em off at the pass with a WunderKam announcement that will compete head-to-head with the Panny.

Mmmm, das WunderKam... raarraarrgh

I'll... predict that Canon will wait until closer to the release of Panasonic's upcoming HVX200 and then head 'em off at the pass with a WunderKam announcement that will compete head-to-head with the Panny.
I agree with Pete. Frankly, I'm surprised at the Canon crowd who doubt their tactics. I'm expecting Canon to do for HDV what they did for DV with the XL1.

Jay