This has proven to be a deceptively tricky question that no one outside of this forum has been able to answer yet. I would greatly appreciate any help on this. This is a twofold question:

1) The Video from the Canon Vixia M50 hooked directly to an HDTV via HDMI looks amazing... exactly like Blu-Ray quality. How can I preserve this same quality once it's off the camera and be able to play it back? Ideally, I'm looking for a playback solution on a Mac via the built in HDMI, but if Blu-Ray is the only way (which I doubt), then I'm willing to go that route.

2) How can I edit the MTS files without converting them to another format? Is Adobe Premier C6 the best way? If so, what steps should I follow to create the project, import and export MTS files?

Background Info on this question:

The reason I ask is simple. I simply want to be able to view and edit the amazing video this camera takes, preserving 100% of the quality and play it back off camera. Who would of known this would prove to be so difficult without even Canon being able to help...

I originally thought that if I imported the footage into FCPX using the best 1080p settings, the footage would look the same. I was wrong... the colors are more saturated and the sharpness doesn't look as crisp as played directly through the camera.

Then I tried simply re-wrapping the MTS file as a MOV file using ClipWrap. No conversion... just a file type change. When I played this through my MacMini's HDMI on my HDTV, the same thing happened... that "Blu-Ray" sharpness and color was gone!

So logically, I'm assuming that A) the problem is either the Mac's video card and HDMI port isn't capable of producing the same quality as the Canon's HDMI... or B) once you change the file type from MTS to Anything else, the video will look different... perhaps due to a codec or something.

So if anyone could help me resolve this, I would be INCREDIBLY grateful! Thank you!

Many NLEs can edit native AVCHD files, some much better than others. I use Grass Valley's Edius 6.07 (recently replaced by version 6.5) and like it. It works well on my system. Edius Neo software also works well with AVCHD files at a lower price point.

You may want to use a different format to save the edited files to reduce the quality loss associated with recoding to a lossy format such as AVCHD.

To preserve the camera original AVCHD file you probably need to take it directly to BluRay Disk, or take the file to a hard drive in a computer that has decent play software and HDMI output. Even then it will be subject to varitions in the quality of the play back system, including the BluRay player.

You alrady hve noted this - often computer graphics cards and monitors (including graphics card with HDMI outputs) are oriented to computer uses and computer color space, not to typical television color space. This results in a different look that you may find to be unsatisfactory.

Some people have problems dealing with this in the Mac world, probably related to their workflows rather than an available technology issue.

Thanks for your response Don.

In my case, I'm dealing with the Mac world, so as you mentioned, I need to find the best NLE and playback solution.

- Is the built-in HDMI out on a Mac-Mini Server capable of looking like a BluRay? I have to imagine it can... but I don't know for sure. Does anyone here have experience with that?

- For software playback...Lots of people talk about VLC. I tried it but can't notice a difference. I really think my initial problem is preserving the file type. It looks amazing coming from the camera... so if I keep that file type without any conversion along the way, isn't it logical to assume the quality shouldn't change?

The true test would be to edit something on the computer, put it back on the SD card and play it back through the camera.... then I would know if it's a Mac issue or a fie conversion issue. I wonder if the Canon Vixia would allow you to do that?

...Ideally, I'm looking for a playback solution on a Mac via the built in HDMI, but if Blu-Ray is the only way (which I doubt), then I'm willing to go that route.

2) How can I edit the MTS files without converting them to another format? Is Adobe Premier C6 the best way? If so, what steps should I follow to create the project, import and export MTS files?

Background Info on this question:

The reason I ask is simple. I simply want to be able to view and edit the amazing video this camera takes, preserving 100% of the quality and play it back off camera.

I can't speak for macs but the ideal way, imo, is to edit native. Premiere Pro lets you do that.

1. Import and edit native - no transcoding whatsover
2. Once you've locked the edit
a. Export Premiere Pro project to AE for finishing or
b. Finish in Premiere Pro and export using AME
3. Create TIFF sequence master
4. Create web/blu-ray or whatever delivery format you want from this master. If exporting to blu-ray, you can use Adobe Encore.

I have a question though: FCP doesn't really change the footage when importing, unless you are transcoding. It just rewraps to MOV. How are you viewing this footage?

I can't speak for macs but the ideal way, imo, is to edit native. Premiere Pro lets you do that.

1. Import and edit native - no transcoding whatsover
2. Once you've locked the edit
a. Export Premiere Pro project to AE for finishing or
b. Finish in Premiere Pro and export using AME
3. Create TIFF sequence master
4. Create web/blu-ray or whatever delivery format you want from this master. If exporting to blu-ray, you can use Adobe Encore.

I have a question though: FCP doesn't really change the footage when importing, unless you are transcoding. It just rewraps to MOV. How are you viewing this footage?

Thanks for your response Sareesh.

I was viewing the footage through the HDMI out on my MacMini Server connected directly to my HDTV (the same input that I connected the Canon Vixia to to compare)

You are correct about re-wrapping. Even re-wrapping the original MTS files off the SD card using ClipWrap still has a negative effect on the look of the footage. I tried playing back with both QuickTime Player and VLC... neither looked as good as the footage directly from the camera.

My goal is simple... and in two parts. Firstly, I'm simply looking for a way to playback the files off the camera and have it look as good as it does playing back directly from the camera. Once I accomplish that, then I will know that if I edit the footage and preserver the same format, it will look just as good.

But so far, no one has been able to figure out how to accomplish this.

My camera is a Sony and I am PC based so answer may not be exactly for you with Mac and Canon. Some cameras HDMI output will change the 60i file to a 60P file. Not sure if the Canon does this. Second the native files just copied to a Bluray disc will playback fine on something like a PS3 without any authoring. In my case the quality is identical to playback from my cameras. These native files can also be authored in DVDArchitect 5.2 and I think Encore.
Simple way forward if there is not much editing is to first backup the original files. Then edit in camera using divide and delete to get to the files that you want.
If you need to do further editing there will be no choice but to re encode. I too use Edius 6.07 on the PC edit native and see no variation on export/re-encode making a Bluray disc. Files can of course be played from a player like the Media Players Overview (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/homeentertainment/mediaplayers/)

Ron Evans

Thanks Ron. The PS3 BlueRay approach sounds promising. However, it's my understanding that you CAN edit in Adobe Premier C6 natively without any trans-coding or conversion.

Does anyone know if MTS files copied back to the Camera will actually play from the camera? Or will that mess up and corrupt the file directory?

Yes I also have CS6 and you can edit native as do Edius and Vegas. But if you alter the files on the timeline by cutting or applying a filter or transition, the whole timeline will be render for output. You can then choose what codec to use for that render. Either MPEG2HD or h264 AVC. h264 takes a long time on most computers unless there is hardware acceleration. MPEG2HD is a lot quicker and if the timeline is short so that the data rate can be high I can see little difference on playback from a BLuray disc. With the Intel Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge PC's there is the option, at least in Edius, of hardware accelerated encoding which will encode to h264 file in about half the realtime of the timeline. Again I see little difference from the original.

Ron Evans

OK, thanks Ron. So I need to Babystep this and see where the quality goes awry.

Ideally, I'm looking for a computer based playback solution that looks as good as it does off the camera. but so far, I can't find a way to play it off the Mac and have it look like the camera.

I will first try to Burn directly to BluRay from the camera (need to find the right burner compatible with both the camera and Mac... any suggestions?)

If THAT works, then I will try to import to CS6 with no editing and burn to BluRay.

If THAT works, then I will try to edit without transitions... and if successful, WITH transitions.

If I can preserve the quality up to this point, then I can start looking for other export and playback options.

Your thoughts?

Can't help you with the MAC as my knowledge is all Windows PC based.

Ron Evans

Thanks for your help ron.

Any Mac Gurus out there?

Tom, actually you should post in the mac forum.and you will get the specific help you need. Your question is more related to post production, methinks.

Agreed. I just don't see a sub-category that applies. (This isn't a FCP issue) Can I create one?

Sorry, my mistake. You edit in PP, that's where you should post your question I think since they'll have details on how to use PP to do what you want. I know I would take this to the Vegas forum for example since I edit in Vegas. Just a thought.

Hi Jeff,

Actually, my first question only deals with the camera. What's the best way to get the SD card's contents on a Blu-Ray. (my first goal is to confirm that the quality of the unaltered clips looks as good from Blu-Ray as it does off the camera... then we'll get into which editor can edit native and preserve the same quality.. which I believe is Premier C6 on Mac)

I just bought a Samsung external Blu-Ray burn but it seems that I have to use my Mac to do the burning. The documentation on the M-50 and the Blu-Ray player stinks. How do I actually decide what is going on the Blu-Ray without going through an editor. Do I use something like Toast 11 to manage this?

Yes you will need to use an authoring/burning program. Don't know Toast but on a quick look at the info looks like it will do the job. Just do not let it re-encode the data just burn in BLuray format to Bluray disc. IF you have a PS3 just make a data Bluray disc and just copy the files as is. The quality will be identical since the files are the same. Only time quality could change is when the data is re encoded after editing. If the data rates are the same or greater after editing there should be no difference that is noticeable. Even then it is not noticeable on most consumer TV's as they are just not good enough to tell the difference.

Ron Evans

Edit: Just read Ron's post, his advice is the best, just burn data discs.

I guess you can burn your files without using an authoring program, but on a mac I don't know how.

You might find it easier to buy a media player, like the one by Western Digital, and you can download your clips to it, and it will play them back for you via an oncsreen menu. For what you're doing it's what I would do. I can't give you details but google "WD Media player" or something, they are like $150. People that have them seem to like them very much.

Hmmm, very interesting. Not sure if it plays MTS files, but I will check out the WD media player.

However, that's still not a final solution for two reasons:

1) The file structure on the Canon SD cards is pretty cryptic and depending on the files type, they are scattered. It's not really practical to try and enjoy watching home movies from unorganized, unlabeled MTS files. The only reason I wanted to burn files from the SD card was to test that the quality looked the same off camera. I thought Blu-Ray offered the best chance. Keep in mind, I already tried wrapping the MTS files as .MOV (no encoding) and they looked different playing back off the Mac with VLC. I can't imagine a $150 WD media player would do any better...

2) My end-game is to edit the video in either Premier C6 or FCP and preserve 100% of the quality... This is why I'm trying to determine what playback method will preserve 100% of the original quality.

Not sure about the Canon but the software that comes with my Sony camera will transfer and join the clips if needed and name them the date and time they were taken. Playing AVCHD is processor intensive and if the MAC or the player is not up to the task then the playback will not look as good as from the camera. I know that early MAC users transcoded AVCHD to PRORES 422 for playback and editing. You should ask on the MAC forums for more information.

However done correctly there will be no loss in quality that you could see in normal editing and playback. If there is then you are doing something wrong.

Can't help on the MAC but I am sure people on tthe MAC forums will tell you what to do.
Ron Evans

I may be barking up the wrong tree here but could this be a playback / monitoring issue? I transcode on a Mac to Prores and monitor via the Matrox mini (via the express port on my model) and the footage looks identical to the original but if I monitor out of the DVI port (using a conversion adapter to HDMI) it does indeed look different (worse). Don't know about HDMI direct as my machine does not have that but I can't help feeling it is due to the Mac graphics card.

Geoffrey, thanks for your response. That could DEFINITELY be the issue. Especially since I tried rewrapping an MTS file as a MOV (no encoding) and played it from my Mac Mini's HDMI port.

I optimistically thought that since the Canon's HDMI port looked amazing hooked directly to my HDTV, then the Mac's HDMI port, playing the same file, would look identical hooked up to the same HDTV.

(MY hope was to eventually use the MacMini as a dedicated media server, including my new HD Movies from the Canon M50.

So... really there are two questions:

1) What can I watch the movies with that will have the same quality as the Canon M50? (Blu-Ray, any other streaming method besides Mac)

2) Once we can match the playback quality of the camera, what can I edit in to preserve that? Premier C6 / FCPX)

I can't help much I'm afraid but my gut feeling is that whatever you do the quality will be a bit compromised and it's not due to transcoding but the playback medium. So far all my projects have gone to DVD which inevitably means a downgrade but funnily enough they look better than on the web / computer because the colour space and issues with interlacing (not an issue for you) go away.

I think any decent NLE will be fine, I really don't think that is the issue - it's what you chose to play back on that's the problem and that is not going to be your camera. But I have no experience of Blu-Ray so that could be the answer. Have you tried making a Blu-Ray disc and watching it on a proper hardware player? I found with ordinary DVDs that they still look relatively grim played on the computer but very nice on a decent DVD player.

I just bought a Blu-Ray burner to test and see if the playback will look as good as the Canon. (I have a PS3) My immediate issue is I still don't understand the proper way to transfer the SD card contents to Blu-Ray. Am I supposed to copy the entire folder structure with all the subfolders? Or use a third party program to sort through all this stuff.

If it looks as good as the camera, then I can take the next step into deciding which NLE and format I can use to edit...and burn some more Blu-Rays.

I'm just bummed that I can't find a computer based plackback option that can look as good as the canon... my goal was to have a media server for all this stuff. I thought we were past having to depend on physical media for video playback in 2012.

Where ever the files are on your network the PS3 can find them and play them just fine. I think you are worrying about the wrong issues. Lots of us have used AVCHD cameras for some time now , edit and produce either Blurays or SD DVD or even stream the files over our home networks to a PS3. I see no difference between my source from Sony's NX5U, SR11, XR500 and CX700 and the edited video. I use Edius 6.07 on a WIN7 64bit OS, Intel 2600K Sandy Bridge processor at 3.88Mhz, 16G RAM and about 5T of disc storage. For monitoring I use a Grass Valley SParkHD card feeding a 23" 1920x1080 TV over HDMI. I can view the finished edit on my PS3 that is in another room on the home network connected to a Panasonic 42" plasma.

More import for you is how are you going to edit and re-encode on the MAC and with what software and to what final codec format. Playing any of the HD files on a PC/MAC to the computer monitor is nowhere near as good as a real TV. Specialized cards for the computer can provide the correct HDMI output for a TV but one has to know where an interlaced stream is being deinterlaced or use a progresssive stream at 60P for NTSC. The main problems are poor deinterlacing for display and poor scaling where the display is not pixel matched to the source video. Both are issues for lots of computers. So you will not find out how good the edit is until you watch on a real TV from a player that can correctly deal with the files. But it is possible for the final edit to not look too good on the PC but a Bluray made of this edit to look great played on a Bluray player to a TV. Unfortunate but true. There are lots of add in cards for PC and MAC that help like the BlackMagic series for both PC and MAC etc that allow the monitor in the NLE to be displayed on an external TV in the correct format. Since you are just starting, the extra expense to see it as it will be just doesn't make a lot of sense and so you will not see the real quality until you watch the final edit on you TV.

Ron Evans

Thanks Ron,

I think you hit the nail on the head. "watch on a real TV from a player that can correctly deal with the files." That's the stage I'm at. Other than using a blu-ray or mac, I wasn't sure what my other player options were. But you mentioned PS3 which I have... Perhaps I can try coping the SD card to my computer and accessing it on the network. (I'm scared to access the card directly since that's my original files)

If I can see footage from the PS3 that looks as good, truly as good as the canon, then I'll feel much better about figuring out which NLE to go with.

To make sure I explained myself correctly previously, I am only looking at footage on my Panasonic 58" Plasma via HDMI. The Canon looks amazing and the Mac Mini doesn't. Perhaps it is due to the video card like you mentioned. If there was an external card or box I could hook to the mac to play the footage through, I'd be happy to purchase and test... if not, I could return it.

But maybe the PS3 is the best next step...

One thing you have to do is decide how you are going to backup your files. Two copies would be best too. Keeping on the card is not secure for precious memories. One on hard drive and one on Bluray would be an option for you as well as the finished edited copy. Did you try viewing your files on the MAC streamed to the PS3? You could get a USB drive and attach to the MAC to copy finished or source files then attach to the PS3 as an option. I have mine set up so the PS3 can just get the files from the PC over the network. I think that is what you are after isn't it?

Ron Evans

Yes, that's definitely what I'm after.

I initially tried copying an FCPX exported file onto a Bus Powered USB drive, which I then hooked directly to the PS3. The PS3 only saw mp4 files, and playback was choppy for the large mp4 and poor quality for the small mp4.

The nice thing about the BluRay Export is that I didn't have to worry about settings. I just dragged in a few clips from the Event into a Project... auto based the Project settings on the Clip, exported to BlueRay and it worked.

What FCPX export settings would you recommend for PS3 playback that look as good as the Original Footage & BluRay?

If you want them to be just like your original files then you would export to h264, 24Mbps. Will likely take some time on your MAC mini and you may well get as good an output using MPEG2HD at 25Mbps. Try. I would get a BD-RW so that you do not waste Bluray's while you try. Don't know FCPX so not sure what output options you have. Make sure the output format is the same as original as far as frame rate etc. so that you can compare properly. You may well want to find out how to stream from the MAC Mini to the PS3 over you network if you have one set up. It is a lot easier and you can then look at any file you want.

Ron Evans

Hi Ron,

Thanks. Yeah, I'm already set on the Blu-Rays so I don't have to worry about experimenting with that. The issue now is finding the right export settings that will look great on the PS3. I did some initial tests and connected a WD USB drive to the PS3 directly. So far, it seems to only read mp4s. The h264 one was large and played back very choppy on PS3. the smaller mp4 (forgot the settings) didn't look good.

So I'm still trying to figure out what settings to export with for PS3 playback that will look as good as the BluRay I burned.

If you just want to watch you original clips then copy the whole card to a new folder on the USB drive and then the PS3 should be able to play the files. It plays AVCHD files native so will find them in the directories you have copied. After you edit then you have a choice of how to encode. mp4 is normally set for lower resolution for a phone or tablet so will not look good on the TV. Mp4 can be set up with the correct resolution and data rate but I am sure the default is for a phone. Files from camera will be mts or m2ts. I know it is not easy on the MAC as all the camera utilities that come with Sony PMB and I think Canon Pixela are for a Windows PC only.

Ron Evans

Hi Ron,

Fortunately, I'm now past the need to watch the original clips since I now know that FCPX preserves the quality. I know this because exporting to BluRay (without any settings conversions) produces a result 100% as good as the original files playing through the camera.

Now I just need to figure out how to export a movie file that can be played through the PS3 that also looks as good as the BluRay.

When I export from FCPX preserving the current settings of the Project (which is based on the original MTS files' settings), FCPX will export a 1920 x 1080 29.97 .MOV file. PS3 will not play this. I've pasted below the formats PS3 will play. What's the best way to get this result? Changing Export settings in FCPX or converting the .MOV in something else? (Compressor, Handbrake, etc?)

Thanks again for all your help!!

The following types of files can be played by PS3:

Memory Stick Video Format
- MPEG-4 SP (AAC LC)
- H.264/MPEG-4 AVC High Profile (AAC LC)
- MPEG-2 TS(H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, AAC LC)
MP4 file format
- H.264/MPEG-4 AVC High Profile (AAC LC)
MPEG-1 (MPEG Audio Layer 2)
MPEG-2 PS (MPEG2 Audio Layer 2, AAC LC, AC3(Dolby Digital), LPCM)
MPEG-2 TS(MPEG2 Audio Layer 2, AC3(Dolby Digital), AAC LC)
MPEG-2 TS(H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, AAC LC)
AVI
- Motion JPEG (Linear PCM)
- Motion JPEG (μ-Law)
AVCHD (.m2ts / .mts)
DivX
WMV
- VC-1(WMA Standard V2)

As an update to my previous post, I found an interesting solution to streaming even the full quality MOV file from FCPX (the same quality as the BluRay) There's a program called PS3 media server which trans codes stuff in real time from the Mac. (PS3 Media Server (http://www.ps3mediaserver.org))

The only problem is that a 2:35 movie file is 2.85 GB. Even my Gigabit network can't keep up with that... The quality looked great (like Blu-Ray) but after a few seconds it gets choppy. I don't even think a USB drive connected directly to the PS3 can play back at that rate... can anyone confirm?

My only hope is that it's the transcoding that's the problem, not the transfer rate. The only way to test that is to export in a format that the PS3 can read natively. I asked that question in my previous post... not sure the best way to handle that.

A 2 min 35 sec movie should not cause a problem for your network. That is a very small file. My PC over my network has no problem streaming a 20G file for a 2 hour movie. That software has the ability to transcode and if it is transcoding your processor has to do the work. The problem may be the transcoding is too much for the processor in your MAC to achieve in realtime. You want to get the files in a format the PS3 will play then the task is just sending them over the network which should be an easy task for the computer and the network. The format that FCPX choose for the Bluray encode is fine. That is what the PS3 played for you. I expect that was MPEG-2 TS 1920x1080 60i at likely 25Mbps. AC3 audio or the original files AVCHD unaltered if you did no editing. Try that if FCPX can encode that as it likely did for Bluray. In fact there should be a folder with the Bluray files in it that the Media server should be able to access. Find that folder and register with the media server. If it is transcoding a MOV file then that is what is causing the problem I think.

Just looked, Chapter 14, page 353 in the user manual for FCPX. I assume you do not have Compressor which you could send the output to and then have a lot more options for encoding I think. Remember if you have a standard bought USB drive it is likely formatted as FAT32 so has a 2G file limit. The PS3 will read NTFS format which will give it a very large file limit but would mean reformatting the USB drive to support large file sizes.

Ron Evans

Hi Ron,

Thanks for all that info. I'm trying to digest all your suggestions. But in short, I'm willing to buy compressor if that's the only way to create a PS3-ready file format that doesn't require transcoding over the network. I'd just love to figure out if that's the problem before I waste $50.

You're correct about the 2 GB limit on the USB drive formatted in Fat32... so that's not a good solution for me. You mentioned formatting in NTSC, but I thought PS3 could only read Fat32. I don't see the NTSC option in Mac's Disk Utitly... only Mac OS Extended. (is that NTSC?)

You also suggested finding the Blu-Ray files that FCPX created and put that on my Media drive. Are those still on my computer after burning the Blu-Ray? (I assumed that would get deleted, otherwise my HD would have a ton of files from previous Blu-Rays... unless I misunderstood you)

Thanks again for taking the time to help me out.

I don't know enough about the MAC to tell you. On the PC there is usually an option to save the files so that the disc can be burned again. They may well still be there is a temp folder. They will be in the Stream folder/directory. The issue for me is that if FCPX can make them for the Bluray then it can make them as an output file.

NTFS is the file format of current Windows 64 bit OS it allows large files just like the MAC drive format. I think MAC OS can read NTFS and FAT32 ( which is the early Windows format for 32bit OS). Not sure if the MAC OS can format a drive NTFS though and I think PS3 will only read NTFS for large files.


Ron Evans

Thanks Ron. AFAIK, PS3 can only read Fat32, not NTFS.

Can PS3's read NTFS hard drives? - Yahoo! Answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110714173529AAx9g16)

If that's true, my only option is to stream to the PS3 over the network... which means I need to find the best way to remove the need for trans coding and minimize any CPU strain so the PS3 can easily read the file.

Someone else I know suggested this:

If file size is not a concern, I would try taking the natively exported .mov file and wrapping it as an MP4 in MPEG Streamclip- You can do this by simply dragging the .mov file into the application window and doing Save As and then choosing MP4 from the bottom center of the save window. Hit save and try playing the resulting file on the PS3.

If that doesn't work, try exporting an H.264 .mov file from FCPX and repeating the same procedure to make an MP4.

If that still doesn't work, you may want to experiment with the 'Export as MP4' option in MPEG Streamclip

Looks like it may be true. I thought the last release had included NTFS but maybe not. I do not know enough about the MAC to tell you how to set up the media server so that it can be seen correctly by the PS3 or about encoding from FPCX so I think you have all I can help you with. Yes you will need to encode to one of the PS3 formats. You have the list so now it is up to you how you get to one of them .
Good luck

Ron

Thanks Ron,

Yep, the PS3 Media Server is great, but so far, even the mp4 don't play smoothly. This can only mean one of two things... a Network issue or a computer issue. (although mp4 don't require real-time encoding so I can't imagine it's a computer issue)

But since I've tested my Wired data rate at 56 MB/sec, I don't know how the Network could be the issue either.

Anyway, To Be Continued....

Can't speak to the MAC world specifically, but there can be a major difference between a measured data rate in a bandwidth test (some of which may be burst speed rather than sustained data rate), and the actual rate that can can be realized in actual applications. Factors may include other processes going on in the computer, in the network, whether or not AV is running and what the AV is examining, the actual configurion of storage on the drives, and so on.

Very true Don. I will look into the files and see what the actual bits rates are and do some tests. More to come...

Tom, have you tried the trial version of Adobe Elements to see if it has any other export options that may work?

Ron

It's taken me over 30 days to get to this point so sadly I can't try that out. But I'm pretty confident that this is simply a Bitrate issue... and between FCPX, Compressor and Streamclip, if anything's going to work, these three programs can handle it.

I've noticed that the original footage has a bitrate of 147 mbits/s, as does the h264 conversion I tried. I'm quite sure this is why the PS3 streaming is choppy....regardless of the PS3 media server which seems to be transcoding just fine.

The big remaining question is... IS there any way to get that bitrate down to something that can be streamed over a fast network while preserving the "Blu-Ray" quality of the original footage. It's hard to imagine that in 2012, my only solution is to burn a Bu-Ray.

147mbps is a strange number. Your camera I think has a maximum bit rate of 24mbps. All the Bluray disc I make are in that range too. I could understand 14.7mbps as an average number which should easily pass over your network. I am beginning to think the issue is the Mac Mini is not powerful enough to transcode realtime and send over the network. It only has one hard drive and I am not sure how much memory you have either. Result could be a lot of drive activity and memory swapping. My older PC with a dual core processor was also not powerful enough to play AVCHD reatime for editing. However with either the Intel graphics or the AMD video processor ( not sure which one you have) it should be able to play AVCHD files. You need some MAC expert to help I think as we PC users are short on input now.

There is no way to compress further than AVCHD and preserve the same quality as this is already a very efficient codec. Going to MPEG2HD at similar bit rates you may not notice much difference depending on your subject but technically it will not be as good.

Ron Evans

Just to make sure we're not getting our bits and bytes mixed up.. I meant to say the rate it 147 mbits/s.

I also tried this with my 8 core with 32 GB of RAM doing the transcoding... same result. Also keep in mind, I tried this with an large mp4 with a data rate of 205 mbits/s...which doesn't require trans coding and that also had the same result.

I'm prety sure this is a network streaming issue. I did copy files from one computer to another at 56 MB per second, so I'm assuming the PS3 can also get data that fast... so I'm still unsure why streaming is so choppy.

Have you tried different media servers on your MAC?

Ron Evans

Just to make sure we're not getting our bits and bytes mixed up.. I meant to say the rate it 147 mbits/s.

Use a format no larger than 25 mbits/sec for streaming on a local wired network.

Actually, I tried 47mbps (47000 kbps) and it's completely smooth. BUT, the quality is still no where close to being as good as the Full Quality of the original (or the BluRay that I burned of the original)

So tell me if you think this statement is true:

There is really no way to stream full BluRay quality over a LAN.

I can stream 28mbps 60P mts files from my Sony CX700 from my WIN7 64bit PC over my network to my PS3 and they look just like the originals played directly to the same TV. Files are simply registered with Windows Media Player. They are then seen by the PS3 which will play them. I still think you have a Media Server or MAC issue.

Ron Evans

FWIW: BD Video movies have a maximum data transfer rate of 54 Mbit/s, a maximum AV bitrate of 48 Mbit/s (for both audio and video data), and a maximum video bit rate of 40 Mbit/s.

HDV stream is about 25 Mbits/sec, about the same as the max AVCHD rate from camcorders like the XA10. Camcorders like the XF300 have a 50 Mbit/s rate as well.

FastEthernet is 100 Mbits/sec (regular Ethernet was 10 MBits/s). But Ethernet is only cabable of attining perhaps 50% to 70% of that rate as through put in the real world. GigaBitEthernet is corrspondingly faster, but everything in the chain has to be capable of that speed.

Note sure what the 147 Mbits/sec is, but it sure sounds like Apple's ProRes 422, a somewhat compressed but still lossy internediate codec used by Apple/FCP, not a native format used by typical camcorders or playback gear- and not all that friendly to things outside the world of MACs. That may he issue.

Yes my network is a Gigabit network with my editing PC on a Gigabit switch on one segment in my room. The PS3 is on the main router in another room.


Ron Evans